[Will Kinney]

Originally Posted by PaulB

The only thing that has happened is that an unholy counterpart has been developed and established to oppose the position of those whose foundation is contrary to those who wish to rule the hearts and minds of the populous. This is not just a 21st century battle it is a war that has been going on since Adam and Eve were given the first words that God voiced to humanity – the only difference is that the voices are now coming from the ones who claim to believe the words of God.

God bless

PaulB

Excellent point, Paul.

Larry, let's look at the quote from John Owen and your own remarks.

"Of all the inventions of Satan to draw off the minds of men from the Word of God, this of decrying the authority of the originals seems to me the most pernicious."

Larry, to "decry" means to denounce, to condemn or to censure. John Owen was undoubtedly a mighty Christian man and he wrote a lot of good things. He also believe that the apostles and Christ Himself did not use some fictitious LXX, but rather the Hebrew Scriptures. Great.

Perhaps his quote here about the "originals" can be tempered by the fact that he undoubtedly used the King James Bible in his teaching and preaching. He lived from 1616 to 1683, so the KJB was his Bible.

However it seems that by his statement both you and he are setting TWO Standards as your final authority, and appealing to "originals" is a very poorly thought out position to hold and in fact contradicts your statement about the King James Bible being the infallible words of God.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chette777
Larry

do you believe the King James Bible is a pure preserved inspired word of God? without error?

[/quote]I believe that the texts underlying the KJV are pure, preserved, and infallible.

Further, i believe that the KJV is a faithful translation of those underlying texts, and is therefore also pure, preserved (for the English speaking peoples), and infallible.

I'm quite surprised that you would say this is the "doctrine of devils" as the quotes that i provided put forth the error of modern textual criticism.[/quote]

Actually Larry, you have tossed us right back into the error of modern textual criticism and so has John Owen by his quote.

Why? Simply because THERE ARE NO ORIGINALS. You are referring us to a Standard that SIMPLY DOES NOT EXIST. You have never seen a single word of "the originals" and day in your life and neither did John Owen.

You are placing your faith in something thatyou know does not exist. You have absolutely no possible way of proving or demonstrating to anyone that the texts that underly the King James Bible "match" the originals, and you know it.

So why bring up two standards, the King James Bible and your non-existent, never seen, invisible and hypothetical "originals"? Don't be a double minded man. Go one way or the other, but don't pretend for a moment that by appealing to your long lost and never seen by you or anyone else "originals" you are somehow setting up the Standard for anything. They are not the final authority and never have been.

Think about it.

Will K

[Jassy]

I recall reading that theological academia invented the "science" of textual criticism, in a feeble attempt to discredit true believers, who often didn't have a doctorate or any formal education in "religion." I thank God that He didn't see the need for me to have such education - He knows that His true Word is ALL I NEED!!

It's such a disgrace how so many mislead Christians or deceptive UNbelievers, placed by the devil in high academic places, purposefully go about trying to SHAME the uneducated loyal Christians who remain faithful to the TRUTH - that we have the PURE, INFALLIBLE Word of God in the KJB1611.

It's been my JOY to discover other true Christians here on this board. Glad that you're here, brother, to join with us in uplifting God's inspired and preserved Bible!

That same source of deception that said to Adam and Eve in the Garden -"Yea, hath God said..." (Gen. 3:1) is still the same source that is gleefully causing division, doubt and heresay today! Satan, whether present in the serpent, or as a wolf in sheep's clothing amongst believers, uses the same age-old tactics that always worked for him. Cast and sow doubts... he's an expert at that. I'm happy that I see him for what he is: the father of LIES!"

Jassy

[larryb]

Originally Posted by Cloudwalker

I'm sorry but this is one of the reasons why I absolutely reject and detest Calvinism...They hold the writings of the reformers as inspired and infallible and also...they exalt these men to the point of worship...Augustine, John Calvin, Martin Luther, Charles Spurgeon, RC Sproul, James White and on and on it goes.

No offense Larry but you obviously have an agenda here and that's to spread your reformed theology...but I call it a doctrine of devils, I'm not buying what you're selling, thanks anyways, I'll stick with the word of God and not man's opinion and interpretation.

It's quite scary.

I don't know of any who hold to the Reformed doctrines of the Bible who believe the Reformers were inspired, infallible, etc.
You clearly misunderstand Reformed theology if you have this view.

The Lord has blessed His Church with teachers throughout the years, and there is nothing wrong with learning from those God has blessed the Church with.

I'm quite surprised that you would say this is the "doctrine of devils" as the quotes that i provided put forth the error of modern textual criticism.

[Cloudwalker]

Originally Posted by larryb

I don't know of any who hold to the Reformed doctrines of the Bible who believe the Reformers were inspired, infallible, etc.
You clearly misunderstand Reformed theology if you have this view.

Respectfully, I disagree.

I have known countless of reformers who instead of quoting me Scripture in the past, they will give me some John Owen quote...or Aurthur Pink or Charles Spurgeon or RC Sproul or....I think you get the point, I hope you do.

It's time to put away MAN'S philosophy and opinion's and stick to what God has said.

The Holy Ghost interprets Scripture...not John Calvin or Augustine.

Oh, sorry for the harsh words of doctrine of devils...but after a brief study of Calvinism {and that's all it took, a brief study} there is no doubt in my mind. To say that God would choose some to the flames of fire and clearly He said it was PREPARED for Satan and his fallen angels is INSANE and blasphemy...if anyone goes to damnation, it will be from the free will that God has given them and nothing else...God is no Tyrant that reformed theology has turned Him into, no sir.

Think about it, if God has decreed some to damnation...HOW CAN HE JUDGE THEM???

LOL, it's ridiculous and unbelievable!