Originally Posted by JOHN G

The Gentiles were preached the gospel (singular) unto by Peter's mouth. How could Peter's gospel to the Gentiles be different than Paul's gospel to the Gentiles?

I don't think it was different John, according to these articles that is one of the errors of Hyper- or Ultra-dispensationalism:
http://www.angelfire.com/nt/books/hy...tionalism.html
http://www.gotothebible.com/HTML/wrongly1.html

Ultimately, every believer will have to examine the scriptures and decide for themselves. This has proven to be a divisive topic, but fortunately many of us here can still respect one another and agree on other issues.

[greenbear]

The concept of dispensations gets you on the right track. I find I hold a lot of the views of a hyperdispensationalist.

The key is that the nation of Israel was a son of God in a collective sense; Israelites were not individually sons of God. The nation of Israel was God's son.

That changed in Matthew 11. His invitation changed from on a national basis to on an individual basis. Israel as a nation was rejecting their Messiah so we are back to a remnant just like always happens at the end of a dispensation. Every dispensation has ended in man's failure so God moves on with the next phase of His plan.

In Matthew 11 we have the invitation to come to Jesus. It is directed toward individuals:

Matthew 11:28-30 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

The following parable fits what I am saying, I believe. Christ's individual appeal went first to the individual Jews who would believe (Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind) and then to individual gentiles (Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled).

Luke 14:16-24 Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many: And sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready. And they all with one consent began to make excuse. The first said unto him, I have bought a piece of ground, and I must needs go and see it: I pray thee have me excused. And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to prove them: I pray thee have me excused. And another said, I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come. So that servant came, and shewed his lord these things. Then the master of the house being angry said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city (Jerusalem/ The Jews), and bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind. (Sounds like the people who responded to Jesus' earthly ministry to Israel)[/B]And the servant said, Lord, it is done as thou hast commanded, and yet there is room. And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled. For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper.

Compare these verses:

And the servant said, Lord, it is done as thou hast commanded, and yet there is room. Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled. For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper.

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. Romans 11:25

This is a very complex subject. I'm not sure anybody fully understands it. I think people need to recognize the distinction between the mystery and the church. The church doesn't equal the mystery that Paul talks about. The church encompasses the mystery but the church is more than the mystery. The "church" includes the apostolic church and perhaps believers before Christ was sacrificed. That last part is definitely just a musing... . The mystery revealed to Paul is that gentiles would be saved apart from the ministry of Israel; that individuals would be indwelled by the Holy Spirit and would be equipped to keep the law in the spirit; that there would be no condemnation to those who were born of the Spirit and called to be sons of God (individually).

The church started out jewish

then transitioned to jewish but adding on a small number of gentiles

then transitioned to gentile when Paul's ministry to the gentiles started with a jewish component (the apostolic church)

then transitioned to no distinction between jew and gentile

It is apparent that covenant theologians have completely missed the boat. To paraphrase Tony, they came to a screeching halt at the reformation.

I certainly don't have the whole thing figured out but my husband and I am getting glimpses at least into what questions need to be asked and that we all have preconceived ideas that make it hard to see what the scriptures are telling us.

Then there's the confusion that arises because the word "gospel" means different things. I think what the word "gospel" means to most believers is John 3:16. That is the 'good news" that all of human history looks forward to and that eternity will look back on. Without this "gospel" it would be better for every man that he had never been born. But there is good news in the way God dispenses the ultimate good news to different people at different times. I'm not making this up. The Bible teaches this. The concept of gospel applies to more than one message.

I used to believe as Winman does when I was a brand new christian. I had no discernment whatsoever. I was a baby. I felt I had to shut out any new teaching because I was terrified of being deceived. I had so little discernment that I ended up in a cult, got out of that then right back in with a bunch of charismatic crazies. I'm probably only a child now but at least I'm eating solid food. Winman's not in a cult of which I am thankful. But I am wondering how long he has been a christian. All it takes is a simple prayer of faith to the Lord to show you the truth about a matter. He will do it if we ask Him. The Lord will open our understanding to His word if we will allow Him to.

[tonybones2112]

Originally Posted by Bro. Parrish

I don't think it was different John, according to these articles that is one of the errors of Hyper- or Ultra-dispensationalism:
http://www.angelfire.com/nt/books/hy...tionalism.html
http://www.gotothebible.com/HTML/wrongly1.html

Ultimately, every believer will have to examine the scriptures and decide for themselves. This has proven to be a divisive topic, but fortunately many of us here can still respect one another and agree on other issues.

I could not agree more Brother Parrish, especially as long as we are given websites where Grace believers are called "heretics" because we do not follow what amounts to sacrements.

Rom. 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

So, here I am, a saved man, and I have to be baptized in water, follow a Passover meal called the "Lord's supper", join a Baptist church, get a crewcut, burn my TV.

Why? What can I add to God's grace?

Ga 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
Col 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

I got bad news for both Ironside and Dr. Ruckman's cult: neither one is going to have one single meteor more than any Grace believer in heavenly places. If Dr. Ruckman wants to be an elitist and a respecter of persons and teach his blinded followers that they are some kind of first class Christian while the rest of us sit in the cheap seats, he'll pay for it at the Judgement Seat. Soon as my new HP notebook arrives from DryCleaner Central, I'll be refuting Dr. Ruckman's wresting of Scripture and posting it in this forum, in this thread. Dr. Ruckman uses both Stam and Bullinger in his Commentaries and studies(he teaches word for word Bullinger's work on Biblical Numerics He must be one of them thar "heretics".

Sister Jennifer, what do they call those people, Hypnotists, Hypocratics, ah...

Hypocrites.

Brother Parrish, I'm sure you, Brother JohnG, and most of the rest in this forum will soon be cheerful little hyperdispensationalists. All you have to do is clear your head from that Catholic hangover you all have had for the last 600 years.

Grace and peace friends

A Hyperdispensationalist Of The Hyperdispensationalists