[greenbear]

Hi, Jassy.

Race is not the correct term. The human race is made up of 70 nations which are descendants of Noah's sons (Gen 10). All nations are a part of the human race. I think the concept of humanity being comprised of different races comes from Helene Blavatsky (Theosophical Society)/ Darwin (Theory of Evolution). I believe this idea has it's roots in occultism.

Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Nationality isn't an issue, at least in the church age.

H. Blavatsky, The Secret Doctrine, the Synthesis of Science, Religion and Philosophy,

In the second volume of The Secret Doctrine, dedicated to anthroprogenesis, Blavatsky presents a theory of the gradual evolution of physical humanity over a timespan of millions of years.

The steps in this evolution are called rootraces, seven in all. Current humanity mainly consists of the fifth such rootrace. Earlier rootraces exhibited completely different characteristics: physical bodies first appearing in the second rootrace and sexual characteristics in the third.

The designation aryans appears as a subgroup of the fifth rootrace, which comprises the vast majority of present humanity[citation needed].

"Some detractors have emphasized passages and footnotes that claim some peoples to be less fully human or spiritual than the "Aryans"."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Secret_Doctrine

[Jassy]

Thanks sister Jen (greenbear):

I appreciate the correction. I didn't mean to use the wrong terminology - just wasn't sure what the correct terminology was. I'm glad to be corrected and I will think of it biblically now.

God has no barriers in regards to appearances. I've always loved 1 Samuel 16:7 because it shows how the LORD looks at people:

"But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart."

I know that the LORD doesn't look down on people with disabilities either. One interesting sidebar... the government has now added "sexual orientation" to their list of things that people can't be discriminated against for. However, the Bible is clear that that abomination doesn't belong with those others.

Jassy

[tonybones2112]

Originally Posted by Jassy

Thanks sister Jen (greenbear):

I appreciate the correction. I didn't mean to use the wrong terminology - just wasn't sure what the correct terminology was. I'm glad to be corrected and I will think of it biblically now.

God has no barriers in regards to appearances. I've always loved 1 Samuel 16:7 because it shows how the LORD looks at people:

"But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart."

I know that the LORD doesn't look down on people with disabilities either. One interesting sidebar... the government has now added "sexual orientation" to their list of things that people can't be discriminated against for. However, the Bible is clear that that abomination doesn't belong with those others.

Jassy

The most bitter racists in all history were the OT Jews. Arise Peter, kill and eat. Hey Lord, I will touch NO unclean thing. The Jews, to themselves, were clean, the whole world to them was unclean. A Gentile woman came to Christ, Lord of all, and begged for her daughter to be released from the torment of the demon. Jesus said it is not meet to give the children's(Jews) bread to dogs. Those are Jesus Christ's words, not Adolf Hitler's or Farrikan's.

"But now" there is no difference in Jew and Gentile, all are equally damned in unbelief and equally saved in Christ. Hatred of blacks is found in some commentator's wresting of Genesis 9 to their own destruction. In Time Past Jesus Christ gave instruction to the 12 to go ye not unto the ways of the Gentiles. Through Paul Jesus Christ now says there is no difference. The "three races of man" are not Negro, Caucasian, and Oriental, but:

1Co 10:32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:

Grace and peace friends

Tony

[kns215]

When I was backslidden (no Bible reading, no prayer, etc), I had a "Christian" (backslidden one) boyfriend who is from outside of my nation. My parents disagreed, of course, and so did my siblings. I did admit that it was sin to disobey my parents but did not admit how it is scripturally wrong to marry someone outside of my nation. I, too, thought that it was OK to marry someone outside of my nation as we are not Israelites. And after couple years of on-going argument between my family and me, my older sister sent me what she called "final warning" (praise God for allowing her wisdom and courage to tell me the truth!) to this issue.

Here is what she wrote to me (it was about 4 pages long but "personal" information has been taken out ):

Scripturally:

- God created all races and nations (Is 42:5; 44:24; 45:11,12).
- God divided them and segregated them on purpose (Acts 17:26; Deut 32:8) - God set boundaries and separated nations so that man can find God and get saved. Races/nations are not the same in their genes and chromosomes, only in their blood (Acts 17:26).
- God’s way has always been that of separation/segregation and not integration which is man’s way and the way of the world today.

- The following are some Bible examples of segregation:

• Distinction from old garment and new garment (Mark 2) – you don’t put a new piece of cloth on an old garment
• Distinction between the seeds planted (tares separated from the good seed in Mtt 13)

Although there is no difference/regard to race in the body of Christ (we are all saved) – the reference is that of a spiritual application. But marriage is physical.

In Genesis 26: 34,35 And Esau was forty years old when he took to wife Judith the daughter of Beeri the Hittite, and Bashemath the daughter of Elon the Hittite: Which were a grief of mind unto Isaac and to Rebekah.

Gen 28:6 When Esau saw that Isaac had blessed Jacob, and sent him away to Padanaram, to take him a wife from thence; and that as he blessed him he gave him a charge, saying, Thou shalt not take a wife of the daughers of Canaan;
7 And that Jacob obeyed his father and his mother, and was gone to Padanaram;
8 And Esau seeing that the daughters of Canaan pleased not Isaac his father;

Ephesians 6:1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.
2 Honour thy father and mother; which is the first commandment with promise;


Practically:

- Interracial marriages are also not practically good.

- The following are some of the many problems/struggles to be cautious of as two different cultures will be joined in marriage and it should make one pause to make sure of what is being done, especially if one is not married yet:

• Different cultural background (including language, customs, etc...)
• Usually, the woman will have to follow the man/please the man with regard to his cultural background and there’ll have to be some compromises
• (God told women(wives) to obey their husband, not husband obeying wife. God did not make women to rule the house but men.)
• The prejudices the children will have to face
• Even people who come from very similar backgrounds will have many difficulties. Paul said that those who marry "shall have trouble in the flesh" (1 Cor. 7:28). But the greater the beginning differences, the greater the struggles to work as one

- That is why for example, we have a Korean Bible Baptist Church because the ways, language, customs of Korean people are different than that of other saved cultural groups

- The majority of people who’ve known people in an intercultural marriage can attest to the problems and disillusionment of happiness

I, of course, don't believe that those already married couples have to divorce and find themselves a new spouse within their nations. However, if one is not married yet, I think one has to ask self if marrying someone outside of his/her nation is really God's will.

No matter how long one has been living in foreign country, the fact that God divided nations is true and therefore "cultural differences" cannot be ignored.
So, for me, I'd rather stay unmarried and wait for God to send someone for me according to His will, rather than marry someone outside my nation and deal with that "cultural differences", etc.

[Cody1611]

Acts 17:26 "And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the BOUNDS of their habitation;"

I believe that we should marry in our own race, but I don't look down on anyone that marries outside their race. I read a lot of verses in this thread talking about the Jew, Gentile, etc, but to me that is talking about Salvation, not marriage.

Numbers 12:1 "And Miriam and Aaron spake against Moses because of the Ethiopian woman whom he had married: for he had married an Ethiopian woman."

I don't believe Miriam was wrong because of the fact the woman was black, but she was wrong because she spoke against Moses.

I've been told that you can't prove the Ethiopian woman was black, but I think scripture interprets scripture...

Jeremiah 13:23 "Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil."

God seems to divide things in the Bible alot.

Leviticus 19:19 "Ye shall keep my statutes. Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind: thou shalt not sow thy field with mingled seed: neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woollen come upon thee."


This is my view, so please don't get mad at me for it. I believe the most important part is that your partner is saved and follows the same doctrine as you. If someone is already married to a different race I don't believe they should get a divorce at all. I am not racist, nor am I in the KKK lol.

[tonybones2112]

Originally Posted by kns215

When I was backslidden (no Bible reading, no prayer, etc), I had a "Christian" (backslidden one) boyfriend who is from outside of my nation. My parents disagreed, of course, and so did my siblings. I did admit that it was sin to disobey my parents but did not admit how it is scripturally wrong to marry someone outside of my nation. I, too, thought that it was OK to marry someone outside of my nation as we are not Israelites. And after couple years of on-going argument between my family and me, my older sister sent me what she called "final warning" (praise God for allowing her wisdom and courage to tell me the truth!) to this issue.

Here is what she wrote to me (it was about 4 pages long but "personal" information has been taken out ):



I, of course, don't believe that those already married couples have to divorce and find themselves a new spouse within their nations. However, if one is not married yet, I think one has to ask self if marrying someone outside of his/her nation is really God's will.

No matter how long one has been living in foreign country, the fact that God divided nations is true and therefore "cultural differences" cannot be ignored.
So, for me, I'd rather stay unmarried and wait for God to send someone for me according to His will, rather than marry someone outside my nation and deal with that "cultural differences", etc.

Sister, this is what every Ku Klux Klansman in America believes and practices.

Grace and peace

Tony

[Brother Tim]

A reminder:
Boaz married "outside his nation". He is held up as a type of Christ. He also had a very important decendent.

[greenbear]

Paul has no problem with it for the church so neither do I. Everything else is just personal preference which thankfully we are still allowed to exercise. Outside of the church they have bigger problems than whether to marry outside of their 'nationality". It's none of my business who marries who.

[kns215]

Well, being an Asian (Oriental, to be specific), I certainly can't belong to KKK! I might get "persecuted"!!!

Anyhow, I know a missionary couple (the husband is white and the wife is Filipino) who's in Philippine, serving the Lord greatly and bearing much fruit. And my church has been supporting the family for about 10 years. I personally don't have anything against any Christian couple who married outside of their nation as I, like Cody1611, believe that the most important thing in marriage is FAITH.

And I know Ruth is a woman with great faith, and I do believe that it was God's will to have Boaz to marry Ruth. (And have Jesus Christ born from his seed.) However, it doesn't seem that the sons of Naomi married women of Moab (Orpah and Ruth) according to God's will. Also, it was Ruth's decision to cleave unto Noami and followed her to the land of Judah. "..thy people shall be my people, and thy God my God" (Ruth 16:16) So once one is completely dedicated to God and leave everything behind, then sure, perhaps God will use him/her to do God's work.

I also don't believe those who married outside of their race have to get out of church or anything, but we do have to look carefully if it is really God's will to have them marry especially times like today. Because today, in a lot of cases, "race mixing" became "norm" and something to be proud of. For instance, here in Toronto (Canada), "Torontonians" are supposed to be "proud" of Toronto's "diversity" and "multiculturalism".

So... I wouldn't necessarily call interracial marriage "Biblical".
"For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints." (1 Corinthians 14:33)

[Amanda S.]

Well, this is an interesting thread...I've just skimmed the numerous posts and while I'd like to return to the original question, I'd also like to offer my 2 cents on the hijacked part of the thread.

The whole context of II Corinthians 6 is separation. Basically avoid the wrong crowd...on many levels. The carnal Corinthians just could not get this right. Constantly hanging with false teachers and the like.

Verse 14 is probably the definitive verse used to prove that an unbeliever and a believer should not marry.

A yoke causes the 2 harnessed to go in the same direction. Where one goes, so goes the other. I am reminded of Amos 3:3 -

Can two walk together, except they be agreed?

This can be true for so many other situations...jobs, military, school...any place where you put yourself under the authority of another.

So many of us (my self included) can obviously take this thought to extremes.

One certainly should avoid an alliance with an unbeliever because as a believer you will not only cause problems for yourself but the Body of Christ.

v. 16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

One should be careful making rules that aren't there. I saw no where that anyone on here supported, recommended, suggested, counseled, etc that it was a good idea to marry an unbeliever.

Having said that however, I am certainly teaching my children and anyone that is under my influence that it is NOT good to yoke yourself to an unbeliever, not only in marriage, but in other areas of life. If married to an unbeliever one will certainly have heartache, I've seen horrendous situations where 1 spouse was saved and the other not. I believe the outcome would certainly be a sowing/reaping situation, but I am not suggesting the Lord will condemn such a marriage but just the natural progression of things. There are many things that we do that have negative consequences, but are not a direct punishment from the Lord.

As Dr. Ruckman has said many times our standards should be to get saved, believe the Book, spend time reading the Book, pray and surrender when the Lord deals with you through His Word.