[Fredoheaven]

Isaiah 45:3 And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the LORD, which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel.

Thank you brother Forrest for your great testimony. Remember God has a plan for our life. Be it like Job of old, he was molded and refined for God's glory. Surely, you will find that there is treasure of darkness.

[pbiwolski]

I've been away from the computer this weekend, and I see you've moved on quite a bit so I'll refrain from pulling up quotes from five pages ago.

However, to all that disagree with the practical interpretation of confessing sins, but rather insist on a strict doctrinal interpretation...

Someone brought up our sanctification in Christ pointing out our position. Position speaks of doctrine, and it is, of course, vital that a believer understand his position in Christ. Yet, have you also failed to see the practical side to sanctification as mentioned in the scripture? That is, the day to day (or commonly known as daily or progressive) sanctification to be gained by all believers.

It is God's call to holiness. In Christ (position) we are made holy (see I Cor. 1:30), yet in our walk, sometimes we are seemingly everything but holy - thus the call to cleanse ourselves from all filthiness, etc. (II Cor. 7:1).

A few verses and I've got to go...

POSITIONAL SANCIFICATION

I Cor 6:1 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

PROGRESSIVE SANCTIFICATION

II Tim. 2:21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

The list could go on, but my time is short. The truth here expressed is the same truth to be received with the former topic. There is a practical walk to be perfected by the believer which includes (among many other things) confession of sins and restored fellowship (I John 1).

The reason that you're not reaching this conclusion is that you are applying each passage ONLY in its doctrinal sense and failing to see the practical. Many of the previous posts have been right on doctrinally, but the Christian walk (and fellowship) is very different that our position in Christ. Exa. ...and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

[Forrest]

Originally Posted by pbiwolski

I've been away from the computer this weekend, and I see you've moved on quite a bit so I'll refrain from pulling up quotes from five pages ago.

However, to all that disagree with the practical interpretation of confessing sins, but rather insist on a strict doctrinal interpretation...

Someone brought up our sanctification in Christ pointing out our position. Position speaks of doctrine, and it is, of course, vital that a believer understand his position in Christ. Yet, have you also failed to see the practical side to sanctification as mentioned in the scripture? That is, the day to day (or commonly known as daily or progressive) sanctification to be gained by all believers.

It is God's call to holiness. In Christ (position) we are made holy (see I Cor. 1:30), yet in our walk, sometimes we are seemingly everything but holy - thus the call to cleanse ourselves from all filthiness, etc. (II Cor. 7:1).

A few verses and I've got to go...

POSITIONAL SANCIFICATION

I Cor 6:1 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

PROGRESSIVE SANCTIFICATION

II Tim. 2:21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

The list could go on, but my time is short. The truth here expressed is the same truth to be received with the former topic. There is a practical walk to be perfected by the believer which includes (among many other things) confession of sins and restored fellowship (I John 1).

The reason that you're not reaching this conclusion is that you are applying each passage ONLY in its doctrinal sense and failing to see the practical. Many of the previous posts have been right on doctrinally, but the Christian walk (and fellowship) is very different that our position in Christ. Exa. ...and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Brother Parrish gave his answer to verse 9 (see post #54), and I agree with him. Here are some other verses in the same chapter. What is your understanding?

1John 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Is this positional sanctification or progressive sanctification?

1John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Is this positional sanctification or progressive sanctification?

1John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Is this positional sanctification or progressive sanctification?

1John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Is this positional sanctification or progressive sanctification?

1John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Is this positional sanctification or progressive sanctification?

[Forrest]

Here is another observation, comment, and question for consideration.

1 John 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

I understand, as I’m sure you do, that there is absolutely, unequivocally, and undeniably no darkness in God whatsoever and He is light. Surely you agree with that. With that reality in mind, read verse 7.

1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

What do the words, “But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light….” Mean to you? Especially the words “…as he is in the light”?

If the word “walk” denotes a progressive and practical walk, do you believe that our progressive and practical walk can ever be a walk of light “…as he (God) is in the light”?

[pbiwolski]

First of all, I used a "Pauline" illustration to convey the truth of the practical application of scripture to daily Christian living. Now that we're in John's epistles, we've crossed an "invisible line" in one regard - that is, there is some application to someone in the future here.

You have to admit, Paul writes to the church plainly about our position in Christ, and everyone here seems to grasp that. Yet, here in I John, things get murky, and phrasing and wording becomes intricate and sometimes hard to reconcile on the surface with Paul's plain foundation. The explanation is this: There is a practicle application and a literal application of John's writings (some unfamiliar with sound and right division will flip out here). The practicle will match a Christian's daily walk and supply teaching for you and I today. The literal will yield doctrine aimed at a saint in the tribulation, and instruction for "keeping himself" (5:18).

Remember, not all of that Book was written doctrinally TO you (yes, I'm familiar with II Tim. 3:16). The saint during the tribulation will pick that Book up and find out exactly what he is to do (with the help of a couple of Jehovah's true "witnesses"!).

Now, the practicle application for you and I in much of I John is obtained by realizing the two natures of the believer. You can study the passages and see where the old man or new man is addressed, practically.

I John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin;

New man or old man?

That's easy. The new creature is created in Christ Jesus unto good works and Paul says when he sins (in Rom. 7:17-18) "Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing:"

Now a literal application of much of the book insists upon one keeping commandments and doing righteousness, etc. I'll back this up more if necessary.

Something else to consider. Notice near the end of the second chapter:

2:28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

The command is to abide in him. Is this a doctrinal command to the "little children" whose "sins are forgiven you" (vs12)? Can they fall out of Christ? OR is the command in connection to their daily walk?

If they disobey the exhortation, chances are that they will be "ashamed before him at his coming." If they disobey the exhortation, then they (little children) will not be abiding in him. Doctrinal or Practical?

You decide. (You can believe what you want to where you want to, but in a perfect Book, it has to match up EVERYWHERE, or somewhere the teaching is wrong.)

2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
2:10-11 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him. But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.
3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

If you try to apply the end of that last verse literally to you and I, then by your own recent admission...(you see what I mean?)

[Forrest]

Brother Pbiwolski wrote: You have to admit, Paul writes to the church plainly about our position in Christ, and everyone here seems to grasp that. Yet, here in I John, things get murky, and phrasing and wording becomes intricate and sometimes hard to reconcile on the surface with Paul's plain foundation. The explanation is this: There is a practical application and a literal application of John's writings (some unfamiliar with sound and right division will flip out here). The practical will match a Christian's daily walk and supply teaching for you and I today. The literal will yield doctrine aimed at a saint in the tribulation, and instruction for "keeping himself" (5:18).

As always, your comments require careful contemplation. Just so I will know for sure what you are saying let me ask:

Does this apply to me today? Yes or no.

1Jo 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

Does this apply to me today? Yes or no.

1Jo 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

Does this apply to me today? Yes or no.

1Jo 2:24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.

Does this apply to me today? Yes or no.

1Jo 2:25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

Does this apply to me today? Yes or no.

1Jo 2:26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.

Does this apply to me today? Yes or no.

1Jo 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Does this apply to me today? Yes or no.

1Jo 2:28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

Does this apply to me today? Yes or no.

1Jo 2:29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

Let me ask you regarding the verses below. Is this written for me today? Yes or no. If it is written for me today, is it doctrine (position) or practical application (progressive) or both?

1 John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

I am simply attempting to understand what you think is a practical application and a literal application of John's writings in the above referenced verses.

[pbiwolski]

Originally Posted by Forrest

Does this apply to me today? Yes or no.

The answer is yes and no. Yes, in the practicle sense where it applies to the new man vs. the old man. No, in the doctrinal sense where certain ideas cannot be enforced upon a believer in Christ.

I know this is tricky. Rightly dividing gets tough in when it is dealing with things that have not yet happened ("Hindsight is 20-20"!).

The trick is to realize when there is "double application" of scripture. It does not happen often, and is therefore often confusing. Try not to read these passages only in their doctrinal setting, or rather read them understanding the possibility that it won't all apply doctrinally to you. If it does not, read it considering what you can learn for your day to day walk in the Christain life.

I'm sorry, I've got to go. I should be able to get back to this some time tomorrow. I hope this doesn't "leave you hanging"!

[Forrest]

Originally Posted by pbiwolski

The answer is yes and no. Yes, in the practicle sense where it applies to the new man vs. the old man. No, in the doctrinal sense where certain ideas cannot be enforced upon a believer in Christ.

I know this is tricky. Rightly dividing gets tough in when it is dealing with things that have not yet happened ("Hindsight is 20-20"!).

The trick is to realize when there is "double application" of scripture. It does not happen often, and is therefore often confusing. Try not to read these passages only in their doctrinal setting, or rather read them understanding the possibility that it won't all apply doctrinally to you. If it does not, read it considering what you can learn for your day to day walk in the Christain life.

I'm sorry, I've got to go. I should be able to get back to this some time tomorrow. I hope this doesn't "leave you hanging"!

Thanks for the response. And I get what you're saying. For me, the references I gave on post #70 all apply to me today.

[Richard.Strickland]

Originally Posted by Forrest

Thanks for the response. And I get what you're saying. For me, the references I gave on post #70 all apply to me today.

Originally Posted by pbiwolski

The answer is yes and no. Yes, in the practicle sense where it applies to the new man vs. the old man. No, in the doctrinal sense where certain ideas cannot be enforced upon a believer in Christ.

I know this is tricky. Rightly dividing gets tough in when it is dealing with things that have not yet happened ("Hindsight is 20-20"!).

The trick is to realize when there is "double application" of scripture. It does not happen often, and is therefore often confusing. Try not to read these passages only in their doctrinal setting, or rather read them understanding the possibility that it won't all apply doctrinally to you. If it does not, read it considering what you can learn for your day to day walk in the Christain life.

I'm sorry, I've got to go. I should be able to get back to this some time tomorrow. I hope this doesn't "leave you hanging"!

I John 1
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

The verse has a condition to it, if.

Now, to all those who assumed that a particular post`s author is only expressing a strict doctrinal interpretation of what he shared sincerely to the thread readers : Please, do not over look the conditions applied to each verse of your quoted scriptures in all of each your posts as I have done. The conditional word that many have over looked can completely change the meaning GOD intended.

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. II Timothy 3:16,17

Now apply II Timothy 2:15
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth

Now review all of my post and I think you can see clearly the conditional, practical, and future relevance that

I John 1:9 has to all of this.

While you are in II Timothy take a close look at 2:16


16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

Each day we all have to choose to continue walk in the light. Hence, refer to my post #71 and from this understand the practical application of the sin unto death

Now, before you all get flared up and stiffed necked, I believe: once saved always saved, unconditionally.

I believe, if you accept the LORD Jesus Christ as your personal Saviour with all your heart, meaning that those whosoever will admit personally to the LORD Jesus Christ right now: they are a sinner headed for hell, which will be eternal damnation; and call on his name (Romans 10:13) are saved out of the love (John 3:16) and the grace(Ephesians 2:8) that GOD showed when he gave his only begotten Son, CHRIST JESUS[born of a virgin(Matthew 1:23)], who they took to Golgotha to the place called Calvary, there they crucified him on the cross , with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water (look in all of the Gospels Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, and Old Testament prophecy).

35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. 36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? 37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. 38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
No one can look into another`s heart and know if they are genuine except for one, and he paid the supreme price for all our sins whether you want to name them past present, future, practical, or doctrinal; he paid the price of sin for "whosoever".Act 8:35,36,37

Now read Romans 14:10,11,12 and tell me you do not see the present, future, practical, and need for the doctrinal Confessing of ones sins.
God`s law is our standard for living not for salvation(Romans 3:20).

32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren. Mathew 23:23

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. Matthew 23:23

Does any one reading this post think, that since you are save by grace; you have been given a license or divine right to sin? Yes or No

If you say YES, GOD HELP YOU, I have noticed Ephesians 4:30 used contrary to its meaning someone check all these posts on "Should Christians search their hearts and confess their sins?"

Ephesians 4:30
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

It means You are saved by grace and you are bought with a price. God is Holy and you are going to heaven without a doubt but if you sin and grieve the Holy Spirit God may say that is enough of your hypocrisy and you will experience the price of sin.

Romans 6:23

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

The debt of sin will be paid: with a price of eternal damnation(the unforgivable sin) for those who refuse to accept Christ Jesus as their Saviour

or

The debt of sin will be paid: with a price of in practical or literal terms physical death(the death unto sin) and also in future spirtual terms at the Judgement seat of Christ YOU SHALL BE ASHAMED. Which is for Christian that hurts the cause of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ by living an ungodly wicked life claiming and teaching by your actions that once you are saved you have a license or divine right to sin

Romans 10:17
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God

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18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen. II peter 3:18