[chaplainles]

Why are we using names that KJV critics, Bible Correctors and assorted Alexandrian and Nicolaitan 'goons' use to attack malign and castigate Bible Believers!!!!!
These terms are used much in the same way as 'Ruckmanite' is bandied about to shame Bible Believers into silence and withdraw from the field of Battle.

Using the K.I.S.S. Principle the only name I wish to be associated with is BIBLE BELIEVER.. period. I refuse any other name that the 'brethren' wish to apply...

By Bible Believer I mean someone who believes..

1. God kept His promise to preserve His Inspired word Psalms 12:6-7; Prov. 30:5-6 etc..

2. That Inspired Preserved Word is found in the English Authorised King James Version 1611 for English speaking people.

3. That the AV KJV 1611 not only contains the Word of God but the very words of God as He intends us to have believe and use.

4. That the AV KJV 1611 is the Sole & Final Authority for Bible Believers in all matters of Faith and Practice.

5. That the AV KJV 1611 follows both Hebrew/Greek sentence structure in English, hence no need to learn those languages to understand the 'Book'.

6. That the AV KJV 1611 is the Seventh and Final purified Bible for all time that God has demonstrated in History as to be what it says it is!! So much so it is teh standard by which all other per-versions measure themselves.

7. That God Supernatural oversaw the making of the AV KJV 1611 in the selection and scholarship of the Translators. Never before or since has such Scholarship been gathered.

I guess by now some folks are stripping gears and having all kinds of fits and tantrums, but it is the Bible that I was saved through, I Preach Teach & Believe. It is Gods Sword that needs to be USED rather than defended!!! Heb.4:12

Originally Posted by chaplainles

It is Gods Sword that needs to be USED rather than defended!!! Heb.4:12

I think that sums it up perfectly.

Originally Posted by chaplainles

I guess by now some folks are stripping gears and having all kinds of fits and tantrums, but it is the Bible that I was saved through, I Preach Teach & Believe. It is Gods Sword that needs to be USED rather than defended!!! Heb.4:12

Not me!! I agree, you have summed it up nicely. I like it kept simple and especially since I can be stupid at times. K.I.S.S.!! I like that!

OK, from now on call me a Bible Believer. I don't have to worry about whether I am just a KJVO or a pure KJVO.

[George]

chaplainles > Post #12

Amen to everything you have said brother. The "pseudo-intellectuals" amongst us complicate things. (Too much "schooling" perhaps?).

It boils down to: Do we have God's word in the world or don't we? If someone doesn't know where it is they had better look for it. And if they are fortunate to find it they had better believe it. And if they believe it they had better obey it and follow it.

Do all of these "gnat-strainers" have a FINAL AUTHORITY which dictates to them all that they are to believe? (I strongly doubt it!) Or do they construct and "set up" "multiple authorities" (TR, Traditional Text, Majority Text, Strong's, all the "Lexicons", a church, a school, a man - or men, etc., etc., etc.) so that they can "CHOOSE" between them (their "authorities") as to which they are going to follow and obey.

Keep em coming brother - it is sometimes wearisome dealing with all of the "flotsam" and "jetsam" spewing forth from the "brethren".

Originally Posted by George

Do all of these "gnat-strainers" have a FINAL AUTHORITY which dictates to them all that they are to believe? (I strongly doubt it!) Or do they construct and "set up" "multiple authorities" (TR, Traditional Text, Majority Text, Strong's, all the "Lexicons", a church, a school, a man - or men, etc., etc., etc.) so that they can "CHOOSE" between them (their "authorities") as to which they are going to follow and obey.

Keep em coming brother - it is sometimes wearisome dealing with all of the "flotsam" and "jetsam" spewing forth from the "brethren".

I'm wondering just how many you are calling gnat strainers today. In Christian love I ask you as well to search your heart to make sure that you are not spewing forth to your brethren.

What I am seeing from some of those you call gnat strainers is that they are doing their best to back up their statements in a respectful way. We should be able to discuss differences respectfully. disagreeing with someone is not spewing as long as we can be respectful.

Originally Posted by Beth

I'm wondering just how many you are calling gnat strainers today. In Christian love I ask you as well to search your heart to make sure that you are not spewing forth to your brethren.

What I am seeing from some of those you call gnat strainers is that they are doing their best to back up their statements in a respectful way. We should be able to discuss differences respectfully. disagreeing with someone is not spewing as long as we can be respectful.

Amen sister! It is so refreshing to read post’s from those who possess a sound mind and a commonsense eye of understanding. You have far more decrement that you give yourself.


__________________________________

- “One accurate measurement is worth more than a thousand expert opinions”

- “...this is the Word of God; come, search, ye critics, and find a flaw; examine it, from its Genesis to its Revelation, and find an error... This is the book untainted by any error; but is pure, unalloyed, perfect truth. Why? Because God wrote it. Ah! charge God with error if you please; tell him that his book is not what it ought to be. I have heard men, with prudish and mock-modesty, who would like to alter the Bible; and (I almost blush to say it) I have heard ministers alter God's Bible, because they were afraid of it... Pity they were not born when God lived far—far back that they might have taught God how to write.” Charles Haddon Spurgeon (Spurgeon's Sermons Volume 1: Sermon II p. 31)

- “If, therefore, any do complain that I have sometimes hit my opponents rather hard, I take leave to point out that 'to everything there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the sun' : 'a time to embrace, and a time to be far from embracing' : a time for speaking smoothly, and a time for speaking sharply. And that when the words of Inspiration are seriously imperilled, as now they are, it is scarcely possible for one who is determined effectually to preserve the Deposit in its integrity, to hit either too straight or too hard.” Dean John William Burgon (The Revision Revised. pp. vii-viii)

[George]

Originally Posted by Beth

I'm wondering just how many you are calling gnat strainers today. In Christian love I ask you as well to search your heart to make sure that you are not spewing forth to your brethren.

What I am seeing from some of those you call gnat strainers is that they are doing their best to back up their statements in a respectful way. We should be able to discuss differences respectfully. disagreeing with someone is not spewing as long as we can be respectful.

Just "WHO" was I addressing when I made this charge? Were there any NAMES MENTIONED? If I didn't name names or address my remarks to any one person on the Forum - WHY are you upset?

There are "Gnat Strainers" on this Forum - and I'm sure that for some of them my remarks "hit home", which they were meant to. But WHY would you take offense?

Your concept of Biblical Christianity and what a Christian man should or should not say has been influenced by our "Politically Correct" Culture. I, for one, refuse to "buy into" this "sissified" and "effeminate" concept of what a man (a Christian man) should be or what he should say.

WHY did you take offense? I can assure you here and now that those remarks were not meant for you, or directed towards you! WHY are you so "sensitive".

Christian MEN are not supposed to meet the standards set up for them by women (saved or lost) - We are supposed to live according to God's INSTRUCTIONS & STANDARDS! I am more concerned with WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE to the Lord, than "what is acceptable" to man. It's not just:

2 Timothy 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

It's also:

Ephesians 5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth)
10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.
11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.

Do understand the "implications" of the above?

2 Timothy 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Are you aware that we are living in that "Time"? This "time" that we live in could easily be called "The Age Of Apostasy" - There is only one other time in the history of the "church of God", where there has been such a falling away from the truth, and that was immediately after the Apostolic Age - when there were at least 80 or more cults and sects vying for the attention of Christians; and when there was a proliferation of "false" books & "false" bibles.

Timothy (and all men who are called of God - myself included) was CHARGED before God to not only be "gentle" with all men, but he was to "reprove" and "rebuke" them! And this is where Biblical DISCERNMENT comes (Knowing WHO to "reprove" or "rebuke" - Ephesians 5:11); and Biblical UNDERSTANDING (Knowing WHY they should (actually "must") be rebuked - Ephesians 5:13); and having the WISDOM to know WHO TO "reprove" or "rebuke" and WHEN to deliver the reproof or rebuke. - 1Timothy 4:1-4)

And what about:

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

If I don't "reprove" someone when they have it coming, I actually am failing to fulfil the duties and responsibilities that God has given me in order that I might be: perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."

You see it's not just about "gentleness" & "meekness"; or about "doctrine" & "instruction" - there are times when we must "warn", "admonish", "reprove", and yes, even rebuke! After 50 years of dealing with "all kinds" of "Christians" I usually can "spot" a "SOPHIST" and "DESTRUCTIVE CRITIC" fairly quickly. and since I have learned over the years that there is nothing "Profitable" to be gained by trying to reason with them, I either "reprove" them or "rebuke" them - depending on the circumstances and then I "avoid them" (like the plague). Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. (The idea being that it is better to deal with them "quickly", rather than have happen - what has occurred)

How about this:

1 Timothy 5:1 Rebuke not an elder, but intreat him as a father; and the younger men as brethren;

Did T4T treat me in his Post #9 (an elder in a New Testament church) in a "scriptural" manner? I trow not! Then WHY are you defending him and criticizing me? Hmmm? We are told to "judge righteous judgment" - Is your judgment "righteous"?

And what about this verse:

1 Timothy 5:19 Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses.
20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

In the context this is referring to "elders", but if it's "good enough" to "rebuke" an elder "before all", it's "good enough" for all Christians. (And there are plenty of "witnesses" to this man's conduct.)

And then there is: {A "bishop" = An "elder" or a "pastor"}

Titus 1:7 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;
8 But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate;
9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.
10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:
11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.
12 One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.
13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;
14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.
15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience isdefiled.
16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Can you not see that, although it is real simple to get saved - living the Christian life according to the Scriptures is a whole lot more than "Milk & Honey" or "Chocolates & Roses". Living according to the Scriptures "costs", because it is contrary to everything that we embraced and absorbed before we were saved. We live in a Humanistic culture and this culture is so "perverse" that it is very difficult to overcome it - unless we live by faith according to the Scriptures, and it will still "cost".

Your "concept" about my behavior is not Biblical and if you would take the time to see how God's men have conducted themselves down through the ages (within the Bible & during the church age), you would quickly find that their conduct was nothing like the "girly men" in modern day "Christianity". Our God is not some "sissified" "effeminate" God and neither are His MEN. Don't make the mistake of judging me by today's Humanistic, Psychological, and Politically Correct standards.

And lastly what about:

Titus 2:15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

I may at times be mistaken in my "discernment", "understanding" and "wisdom" when it comes to my judgment in these matters - and if I am, God will see to it that I am "chastened"; but I am not going to shrink from my duty to "warn"; "admonish"; and "REPROVE"; and, even when the occasion requires, "REBUKE" a "proud", "vain", and "offensive" person who hurls insults at a Christian without regard for What God's word has to say or even what common courtesy would require.

If you will notice: I have not treated you in the same way that I treated him, because I do not perceive that you are anything "like" him.

Respectfully submmited,

[conwaytim]

Titus 2:15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

I may at times be mistaken in my "discernment", "understanding" and "wisdom" when it comes to my judgment in these matters - and if I am, God will see to it that I am "chastened"; but I am not going to shrink from my duty to "warn"; "admonish"; and "REPROVE"; and, even when the occasion requires, "REBUKE" a "proud", "vain", and "offensive" person who hurls insults at a Christian without regard for What God's word has to say or even what common courtesy would require.

Bro. George,
As always, one can count on you to respond in a way that many would shrink from, in order to refrain from judging others!