[greenbear]

I was trying to find evidence of when Hebrews was written and I came across a site that looked great for the first couple of paragraphs, using the phrase "rightly dividing" and the author was of the opinion that Paul was the author of Hebrews. Then he started talking about how 95% of original manuscripts put the general epistles except for Hebrews, after Acts, then place Hebrews after II Thessalonians and before I Timothy. He doesn't go into manuscript evidence but I assume it is largely not from the received text. He states his reasons why he believes Hebrews was written during his first Roman imprisonment and his reasons make some sense. He argues that Hebrews was actually written to gentiles. He gives some fairly decent arguments for that, you would have to read the article. I'm not sure how he gets past the title of the book, though! I don't think he's right. Another possibility is that Hebrews is written to the Jews in churches in areas where Paul had authority over gentile churches and perhaps piggybacked to that is the future application to the tribulation church, if there is such a thing. The author's conclusion is that the book of Hebrews should be included in the "Mystery of God" revealed to Paul. Even if the author is correct on when and who Hebrews is written by, I don't believe that the order of the books of the Bible have to be presented in chronological order. Hebrews seems not to fit with Paul's Mystery. I've never understood the book of Hebrews as I should.

If you check this guys website he's all about restoring the Original Bible
http://www.askelm.com/doctrine/d040901.htm#_ftn4

[kevinvw]

First of all, the book of Hebrews is written to Hebrews because that's who it addresses in the name, just like the book of Romans, Ephesians, Galatians, etc. It's foolish to say that it was written to gentiles unless you don't believe in an inspired inerrant Bible which this man obviously doesn't.

Another thing is that he seems to have found the "originals" which have been lost for 2000 years. Our Bible does not need to be reordered and is in perfect order according to pre-millennial theology which is the only correct way to interpret the Bible. Hebrews was more than likely, just like James, written before any doctrine to the church was revealed to Paul by Jesus Christ.

[chette777]

Ditto written to Hebrews.

I place it where it is as a transitional book from church age to tribulation.

lots of application for the church. be careful as there is at least 8 times the Author(possibly Paul) that has what looks like a kingdom Gospel twist to it.

Hebrews is a wonderful and exciting book to study.

[Brother Tim]

Kevin stated:

First of all, the book of Hebrews is written to Hebrews because that's who it addresses in the name,

My Bible reads:

Hebrews 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

Nowhere in this introduction are the recipients named. The "Title" of the book is not inspired Scripture. It was assigned that title by men as a way of delineating sections of Scripture. There is a difference.

By the way, the Author is the Holy Ghost, not Paul or Timothy or whoever else men speculate wrote it. If God did not put the writer's name in the book, then we do not need to try to figure it out. It is unimportant.

[greenbear]

Originally Posted by kevinvw

First of all, the book of Hebrews is written to Hebrews because that's who it addresses in the name, just like the book of Romans, Ephesians, Galatians, etc. It's foolish to say that it was written to gentiles unless you don't believe in an inspired inerrant Bible which this man obviously doesn't.

Another thing is that he seems to have found the "originals" which have been lost for 2000 years. Our Bible does not need to be reordered and is in perfect order according to pre-millennial theology which is the only correct way to interpret the Bible. Hebrews was more than likely, just like James, written before any doctrine to the church was revealed to Paul by Jesus Christ.

Yes, it's obviously written to Hebrews, hence it's name! He sure has more respect for the corrupt manuscript streams than the received text and the KJB. I couldn't agree more that our Bible is in the correct order. I don't see how it could be written before Paul's ministry to the gentiles started, though.

[greenbear]

Originally Posted by chette777

Ditto written to Hebrews.

I place it where it is as a transitional book from church age to tribulation.

lots of application for the church. be careful as there is at least 8 times the Author(possibly Paul) that has what looks like a kingdom Gospel twist to it.

Hebrews is a wonderful and exciting book to study.

I had never heard of a tribulational church before I read you mention it. Definitely not church doctrine after Paul's Mystery. I look forward to studying it I would just like to get an idea when Paul wrote it, and to understand for myself all of the reasons most teachers I agree with say Paul wrote it.

[chette777]

Originally Posted by Brother Tim

By the way, the Author is the Holy Ghost, not Paul or Timothy or whoever else men speculate wrote it.

Of course the whole Bible is Authored by God via inspiration everyone knows that.

It is important to know why God did not allow the author (the person God used to pen it) of this book to be known. nothing is unimportant in God's word

I am not sure that my facts are correct so I don't want to say this absolute authority. but I think Hebrews is the only book in the Bible that the author (the person God used to pen it) is not known. before you jump and say Job, read Job again there is a place where the author identifies himself.

Title and verse numbers and chapter division by most feel they are just of men. But if God has given us the KJV complete with these titles and divisions and numbering I believe they in that case are inspired and preserved as such for a reason. there is no reason for us not to believe it is Paul as the KJV name says it is Paul

GreenBear,

When you read Hebrews look at the words especially endure to the end, overcome, etc. then read Rev 1-3. I believe these are Jewish tribulation Churches being spoken of in that book of prophecy are also addressed in Hebrews. Not just historical locations that also had Jewish churches in the past. Seeing John was in the spirit on "the Lord's Day" Rev1:10 referring to a future time he writes to churches in a future time. there never was any proof historically that John ever wrote and sent to seven churches that which is written in Rev1-3. but we do have this book of prophecy still yet to be fulfilled and in that time they will need to endure, overcome to receive the reward of life and other benefits.

David Walker does a good job of showing the transitional nature of Hebrews in his book "Dispensatinalism"

now having shared what I believe with Greenbear, I know there are some of you who don't agree but at this moment it is not really up for debate. It is just a statement of a moderate dispensationalist.

[greenbear]

Originally Posted by Brother Tim

Kevin stated:
My Bible reads:
Nowhere in this introduction are the recipients named. The "Title" of the book is not inspired Scripture. It was assigned that title by men as a way of delineating sections of Scripture. There is a difference.

By the way, the Author is the Holy Ghost, not Paul or Timothy or whoever else men speculate wrote it. If God did not put the writer's name in the book, then we do not need to try to figure it out. It is unimportant.

The "Title" of the book is not inspired Scripture.

I've always thought of the titles as being preserved or inspired. But I don't know.

[Ripdood]

If you check this guys website he's all about restoring the Original Bible
http://www.askelm.com/doctrine/d040901.htm#_ftn4

Sister Greenbear,

The two men mentioned on the article Ernest L. Martin, Ph.D. and David Sielaff, are connected with an organization called the Worldwide Church of God. They are not as active these days as they used to be. But back in the 1980s they were classified as a cult by mainstream denominations. Herbert w. Armstrong was the founder. They were very good at twisting the facts of the Word of God and making it look very scholarly to accomplish their purposes. They were and are in favor of the new per-versions, because the wording in those works of satan make it easy to prove their unscriptural beliefs. They are still around but not as large or well organized as they once were.

I tried witnessing to one of their members once it was an excercise in chasing word definitions. The same terms we use are defined differently in their beliefs. I planted the seed I am not sure how well it took, I never saw the fellow again.

[CKG]

This book of the Bible tells us

Jesus is superior to the Angels (Hebrews 1)
Jesus is superior to Moses (Hebrews 3)
Jesus is superior to the law (Hebrews 7:19)
Jesus offered a better testament than the old (Hebrews 7:22)
Jesus mediated “a better covenant, which was established upon better promises” (Hebrews 8:6)
Jesus offered a better sacrifice than that of the Levitical priesthood (Hebrews 10:11-12)
Jesus, a priest after the order of Melchisedec, is superior to the Levitical priesthood (Hebrews 7)

so it is appropriately named Hebrews.