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#21
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Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. (1 Corinthians 13:8-10 KJV) (notice how he speaks of prophesy, tongues, and knowledge which are all the early 'partial' forms of God's Word.) So is it so hard to believe that eventually that which is perfect has truly come? We believe it is the King James Holy Bible. We believe God wants us to know His Word, and that He is not slack in providing it. Peace and Love, Stephen |
#22
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#23
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Are you suggesting that what Paul penned was not perfect at the time,and that God waited until a bunch of Anglican/Catholic clerics to "get it right"?! |
#24
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That quote by Paul is referring to our Lord Jesus Christ only. Not the KJV. Yes God wants us to know His Word, and that He is not slack in providing it. But that is not what Paul is saying and or referring to.
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#25
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God's perfect Book - the King James Bible
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Hi Brian. To the best of my understanding at this time I would have to say there there was not a perfect, ENTIRE Bible as we know it today which contained both the New and Old Testaments. It seems that God preserved His perfect words in the majority of the Hebrew texts for the Old Testament, and the New Testament may well have been found among a majority of the Waldensian believers around the time of the Reformation. Can I prove this to your satisfaction? No, not at all. The Waldensians were true believers whom the Catholic church persecuted for hundreds of years and burned their Bible manuscripts. This is history. Satan is always trying to discredit "The Bible, the words of God, Scripture" or however you wish to name it. Textual corruptions creep in and God begins a process of purification. This is what I believe He did in the English language until we finally get the finished product in the King James Bible. This is right before the world wide missionary movement began. God is in control of history. There is absolutely no need nor promise from God that every nation or every individual would have a perfect, inerrant and complete Bible in their language. For centuries there was only one nation that had the ongoing (it was not at all complete) revelation of the true words of God, and even then there were no printing presses and I seriously doubt most individuals even had a copy for themselves, but God says: "He sheweth his word unto Jacob, his statutes and his judgments unto Israel. He hath not done so with any nation: and as for his judgments, they have not known them. Praise ye the LORD." Psalm 147:19-20 It was not until the 16th to 17th century that the church in the main finally settled on the 66 book Canon. It was only after the King James Bible came out and was well established among English speaking people that the church began to make their formal declarations concerning the inerrancy of Scripture. I and many other Christians believe that we do have a single Book that contains all of God's perfect and inerrant words. It is called the King James Bible. It seems that your view is that God's true words are STILL scattered "out there somewhere" among the remaining thousands of variant readings in obscure languages that the vast majority of people cannot read, and not one of you can know for sure which ones are right and which are not. You end up being Bible Agnostics, and every individual becomes his own little authority as to what God may or may not have said, and each one differs from everybody else. Belief in the inerrancy of Scripture is at an all time low and professing Christians read and believe their "bibles" less and less every day. God Himself said He would send a famine of hearing His words and that there would be a falling away from the faith in the end times. I believe this is happening now. If we see any truth at all and believe His words and His Book, it is all by the grace of God. Not because we are any better, smarter or holier than anyone else. I sincerely hope that God will give you the faith to believe His Book. Will Kinney |
#26
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Hi Stephanos,
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Hi Bibleprotector, Quote:
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#27
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#28
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I am still attempting to figure out exactly what your position is. You seem dubious as to the uniquely preserved status of the Authorized Version; I'm trying to understand why. Frankly, the notion that all of the modern versions could be equally reliable, or equally "preserved," does not seem to be the sort of thing that would commend itself to a rational mind. As for that hoary old chestnut about "where was the Bible before 1611," I'm sure that it will be explained to your satisfaction shortly, by someone who really understands the issues. If not, I'll do it. In the meantime, I'll just sit over here in the corner and observe. Last edited by Vendetta Ride; 11-30-2008 at 07:13 PM. |
#29
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before 1611?
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Like I said, I think I have a pretty good general idea but would appreciate more insight into this area. The issue doesn't trouble me much since I do not understand all the ways of God nor do I expect to grasp a whole lot more until I get to glory. God has shown me enough truth about the King James Bible that I know if it is not the pure words of God in book form, then no such thing exists. And since I do believe what God says about Himself and His words, then I am quite content to rest in His promises as found in the greatest Book ever printed - the King James Bible. Please share your thoughts on this issue. Perhaps you can make us aware of some things we have not yet considered. Thanks, Will K |
#30
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It is a sheer canard to imply that there was no written word of God prior to 1611 - - - in fact, it's worse than a canard; it's an insult to the memory of some of God's most faithful saints. William Tyndale was not burned at the stake in 1536 for the sake of an "inadequate translation;" his version, at that point in time, was the word of God, just as the AV is in our own time. And there were others: because, as has been mentioned once or twice in this thread, God's word was purified over a period of time. We talk about Ps. 12:6, 7, and we speculate as to the nature of the seven purifications; but we don't always realize that, apart from the Old Latin and the Koine Greek and all that stuff, there have also been seven purifications in English - - - and only seven. The AV was the last. The first step was the Gothic Bible, which we associate with Ulfilas (310-383). The Goths may have received the New Testament first-hand: many of them served in the Roman army in Thessalonica and Cappadocia. Ulfilas' Gothic Bible, according to liberal and conservative scholars alike, contained no contamination (or influence, if you prefer) from Jerome's wretched Vulgate. The Cambridge History of the Bible says that Ulfilas' Byzantine text "differs very little from the fully developed Textus Receptus of the later period." So, the Goths had a Bible, long before 1611. Next came the Anglo-Saxon Bible(s), which started cropping up around 450 AD. The "father of English history," the Venerable Bede, bears witness to these vernacular Bibles, which were of the Byzantine text type. There was not a single edition of the Bible in these days before the printing press, but the Anglo-Saxon Bibles were faithful to the Receptus and to one another. So the ancient Britons had God's word, too. Then, like dawn breaking after a stormy night, came John Wycliffe's Bible in 1389. Then Tyndale's printed edition. Then the Geneva Bible in 1560. Then the Bishops' Bible, in 1568 (although the Geneva was still in use until around 1599). And, of course, the seventh and final purification came in 1611, although subsequent editions (not revisions) made orthographical changes, in keeping with typesetting practices. As the English language itself developed from its Gothic roots, the Bible developed, under God's guidance, right along with it. And now we have the King James Bible: which, contrary to popular misconception, is written in Modern English, not Old English or Middle English. Please understand: I'm not limiting Ps. 12:6, 7 to the development of the English language! I think the verses go much deeper than that, and refer to much more. But isn't it interesting that the development of the English Bible came in seven stages? Which is nothing that hasn't already been said in another thread, but you asked! You rascal! |
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