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Old 10-19-2008, 06:48 PM
drbible1611 drbible1611 is offline
 
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Default When does a person become a living soul?

Does a person become a living soul at:

1. Conception
2. Sometime during gestation
3. At Birth?

I look forward to your comments!
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Old 10-20-2008, 05:08 PM
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Well Brother, I'll be brave and give it a go

(BTW, thankyou for your encouragement over the years, you have been such a blessing).

Now, this is how it was taught to me in TBDI (only very briefly, during a course on romans).

At conception, a child has a spirit and a body. The spirit is alive. The body is alive. When the child is born and takes it's first breath, the soul is created in the child, and that child becomes a living soul.

Dr Lince didn't mention anything else at that time, although he may cover it more in a different course, so that's about all I know of the position.

I don't know enough about the position to say either way. Without a life, the body and the spirit are alive at conception. As for the soul, I don't know.

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Job 33:4 The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.
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Old 10-20-2008, 05:19 PM
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Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Hello,Luke and drbible 1611! This topic is new to me. Looks interesting.

Based on the above verse, "man became a living soul" as soon as he had his body formed and had his spirit ("breath of life") breathed into him.

When does a person begins to have a body AND breath? I think that would be when he began to have a soul. I have been thinking that the body without the spirit never has a soul; but as soon as the body receives the spirit ("the breath of life"), it already has a soul.
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Old 10-20-2008, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke View Post
Now, this is how it was taught to me in TBDI (only very briefly, during a course on Romans).

At conception, a child has a spirit and a body. The spirit is alive. The body is alive. When the child is born and takes it's first breath, the soul is created in the child, and that child becomes a living soul.

Dr Lince didn't mention anything else at that time, although he may cover it more in a different course, so that's about all I know of the position.

I don't know enough about the position to say either way. Without a life, the body and the spirit are alive at conception. As for the soul, I don't know.

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Job 33:4 The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.
Luke, that's my understanding too.

Gen 2:7 "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground [man's body], and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life [man's spirit]; and man became a living soul [man's soul]."

I believe a living, human being, known as a baby is in the womb at the moment of conception.

When does a human become a living soul? I "think" when he takes his first "breath," but I don't really know. That is to say, I'm not sure enough to utter or teach what I "think" as the final word of authority.
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Old 10-20-2008, 06:10 PM
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I meant to say "without a doubt, the body and spirit are alive at the moment of conception".

The spirit doesn't die until a knowledge of good and evil is understood, usually by the law.

Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once [before Paul knew right and wrong - when he was a young child]: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

Of course, another way to take that verse would be to consider that Paul thought he was alive, and on his way to glory in the jewish religion, but when the commandment from Jesus came, he saw his sinfulness, and died to self.
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Old 10-20-2008, 08:43 PM
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Luke,

Quote:
Now, this is how it was taught to me in TBDI (only very briefly, during a course on Romans).

Luke I agree with this teaching, but you can also use Jeremiah or John the Baptist for this also. I like using Jeremiah the best. It talks about God forming Jeremiah. I think it is a much stronger verse for this issue.


Quote:
Jer. 1:5

Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

Well it looks like God can even work on a baby in the womb. Also see John the Baptist on this issue. Therefore life must begin pre-birth or pre-breath. Notice God formed Jeremiah, not the dad and mom not nature, but God himself formed this child. At the moment of formation life begins. Many say the moment of conception. Both terms are correct in this matter.


Atlas
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Old 10-20-2008, 09:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drbible1611 View Post
Does a person become a living soul at:

1. Conception
2. Sometime during gestation
3. At Birth?
Yes.

I'm sorry, brother, but I can't answer with any more certainty than that. I lean toward #1 or #3, but although there are hints here and there, God has chosen not to spell this one out for us.
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Old 10-21-2008, 02:36 PM
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An ancillary question here would be,
If a child does not become a living soul until he takes his first breath, then what is the present and future condition of those who die or are killed before birth?
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Old 10-21-2008, 05:21 PM
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An ancillary question here would be,
If a child does not become a living soul until he takes his first breath, then what is the present and future condition of those who die or are killed before birth?
Wouldn't that depend on your view? If you believe at conception, a child has a spirit and a body, and that child dies in the womb, that child is with the Lord for all eternity. That's what I currently believe.

If, on the other hand, a person does not believe at "conception" a baby is not really a created person because they've yet to take their first breath, I suppose that person would have to believe the present and future condition is irrelevant.

What do you believe, brother Tim? And why?
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Old 10-21-2008, 05:32 PM
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I most definitely believe that the soul is created at conception. In fact (and not to start another topic here) I believe that the soul and spirit are distinct but inseparable except by the Sword (Word of God). [Hebrews 4:12]

The alternative of the introduction of the soul at birth not only opens the door wide for unrestricted abortion by removing the moral aspect, but it also brings total confusion as to the current and future circumstance of those who die in the womb, intentionally or unintentionally. That is horrendously troubling to me.
 

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