Doctrine Discussion about matters of the faith.

 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-15-2009, 01:36 AM
chette777's Avatar
chette777 chette777 is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Puerto Princesa City, Palawan Philippines
Posts: 1,431
Default Where Was Lucifer when he fell?

this is one questions we have been mulling over and it seems to be important in understanding what went on during the Gap of Gen1:1 and 1:2

Before we go any further we do recognize that some of you do not believe there is a Gap. and we respect that this form would be geared towards those who do believe in a Gap.

and this is not started for debate on whether there is or not a Gap so take that some where else.

Ok Isa 14 13 says, For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

there are three verse that have Ascend into heaven they are:

Psalms 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there. Isaiah 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Romans 10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above


From these verse we can clearly see ascending into heaven is always from the earth never from any other point in heaven.


and well there are 49 that speak of clouds and they all have to do with and are connected to the earth. Even Christ coming in the clouds of heaven are connected to is return to earth but prior to setting foot on the ground. so again the clouds are in the heaven but the first heaven at best.


We also know by science that there are clouds in the second heaven such as the Ort Cloud or the Great Cloud Nebula. at any rate these seem to be clouds in respect to the Earth.


so if Lucifer had a throne it was on this earth. and his sin was trying to either take that throne physically to heaven to take the place of Gods throne in the north of the north or he was literally trying to change the location of worship by exalting his throne on the earth as superior to Gods throne.


Any comments?
The King James Bible Page SwordSearcher Bible Software
  #2  
Old 06-15-2009, 06:50 PM
Biblestudent's Avatar
Biblestudent Biblestudent is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Philippines
Posts: 662
Default

Hi, Brother Chette!
I believe that Lucifer, although he had the position of being the fifth cherub that covers God's throne, he had his sphere of authority over the earth. I guess his throne must be located the same place described as "Satan's seat".
He was in Eden, the garden of God, an Eden different from Adam's Eden.
  #3  
Old 06-15-2009, 09:22 PM
greenbear's Avatar
greenbear greenbear is offline
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Ohio
Posts: 492
Default

Ezekiel 28:12-18 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.

Isaiah 14:11-15 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee. How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to
the sides of the pit.


Lucifer was the first created being.
Lucifer was not a ruler over the other angels (stars of heaven).
Lucifer willed to co-rule with God.
Lucifer willed to move his throne from earth to the sides of the north where God's throne is located.

Eden the garden of God was on earth.
It was the same location as Adam's garden of Eden.
It was a mineral garden.
Lucifer was covered by every precious stone.
Lucifer was created with musical instruments as parts of his body.
Lucifer had his throne in Eden.

Lucifer was the annointed cherub that covereth.
He walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire upon the holy mountain of God.
So he served as covering cherub in heaven but his throne was on earth.
He was perfect until iniquity was found in him.
By trafficking in something wicked he became filled with violence and sinned.
Pride has made Lucifer insane; he believes he can overcome God.
God cast Lucifer out of the mountain of God.
God took away Lucifer's annointing as covering cherub in the midst of the stones of fire.

Any insights? Anyone agree or disagree?

Are there other verses elsewhere that shed light on God judging Lucifer before Genesis 1:2?
  #4  
Old 06-15-2009, 11:50 PM
Buck's Avatar
Buck Buck is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Twin Lake, Michigan
Posts: 39
Default Just my though

Why would it matter where the Devil was when he fell? As long as, by the grace of God he fell and hurt himself.
Sorry not a joke, I just wonder why someone would wonder such a thing.
No offence ment.
  #5  
Old 06-16-2009, 12:12 AM
chette777's Avatar
chette777 chette777 is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Puerto Princesa City, Palawan Philippines
Posts: 1,431
Default

It has to do with support material being put together for a Biblical Non-Evolution, Non-Great Age, pre Gen1:3 Gap
 

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

The King James Bible Page SwordSearcher Bible Software

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:55 AM.

Powered by vBulletin®, Copyright vBulletin Solutions Inc.

Website © AV1611.Com.
Posts represent only the opinions of users of this forum and do not necessarily represent the opinions of the webmaster.

Software for Believing Bible Study

 
Contact Us AV1611.Com