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  #51  
Old 02-22-2009, 09:04 PM
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At the Great white Throne only dead men who have been resurrected are being judged. living men get judged later in the next chapter 21. God's Grace is greater than our current understanding but we get great light from his word on his wonderful grace.

Babies god only knows, Pygmies and men who never heard the gospel both alive and dead will be judged by what their conscience revealed to them from the earth. Read Romans chapters one through three twenty one the section on "All mankind's need for Salvation", is shows that their own bodies and nature revealed God to man, and their conscience will either accuse them or excuse them.
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  #52  
Old 02-23-2009, 03:30 PM
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Default Re: " CALVINISM: Sound Doctrine?"

JerryW,

I find it very instructive that in your Post #22 (this Thread) you pre-judged me and then accused me of:

Quote:
George, You seem to do like many others, that is just pick and choose the verses that fit your "theology". Since you do not want to be labeled as a Calvinist or a Armenian you take the "middle of the road theology". The two verses that I have not seen you address is Acts 13:48,"And when the Gentiles heard this they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord, and as many as were ORDAINED to eternal life BELIEVED." And also John 6:44," No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him." How do these fit in with your "theology" Or do they?
After I presented my refutation of the Calvinistic doctrine of “Limited Atonement” (citing nearly 100 verses of Scripture in support of my belief) and in addition, also dealing with the two (2) verses you were so concerned about, plus another nine (9) verses that Calvinist’s use in defense of their “theology” {and an additional four (4) verses for good measure}, all you can do is ask a couple more "loaded" QUESTIONS. Instead of either trying to refute my study (point by point) or agree with it – you practically IGNORED nearly all of the study, by using the clever “ploy” of asking more QUESTIONS!

JerryW’s “QUESTIONS” - Post #49 (this Thread):
Quote:
George, Can you explain a couple things in regards to your post on Limited Atonement? Since you take the words "all men" and "whole world", in the majority of cases, as pertaining to every individual ever born (rather than simply saying it means not just the Jews but also the Gentiles) why would a loving God declare that he "wants all (as you define all) men to be saved", 1 Tim 2:4, when he knew way in advance not every human being is going to hear the Gospel message? Remembering that the "gospel is the power of God unto salvation" and "faith comes from hearing". In your post you use quite a few verses that contain the word "believe", and at the end of your post you have the phrase "JUST believe on the Lord Jesus Christ" Can you explain the meaning of 1 Cor 15:2,"By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have BELIEVED IN VAIN"?
Your quote:
Quote:
George, Can you explain a couple things in regards to your post on Limited Atonement? Since you take the words "all men" and "whole world", in the majority of cases, as pertaining to every individual ever born (rather than simply saying it means not just the Jews but also the Gentiles)”
By combining my individual statements about “all men” with the “whole world” you blurred the clear distinctions that I made between the two! I distinctly said:

My quote:
Quote:
“Unlike those that will follow (“all”, “all men”, etc.) the Calvinists cannot CHANGE the word “world” to mean something other than what it means – ‘THE WORLD’!”
The use of the term “the world” or “the whole world”, when used by God or His Prophets, Servants, Apostles, etc. always means “the whole world” (which would include both Jews and Gentiles, of course). I did not say “in the majority of cases”.

I also made it crystal clear that the terms “all” or “all men” must be determined by the CONTEXT, and that “many of these verses will be “turned on their head and challenged by Calvinists by the use of QUESTIONS:” – which is EXACTLY what you are now doing!

To be precise, I said:
Quote:
“The following verses present more support against the doctrine of Limited Atonement”. However, many of these verses will be “turned on their head” and challenged by Calvinists by the use of QUESTIONS: ‘Does “ALL” really mean ALL – Doesn’t it really mean ‘ALL THE ELECT’? ‘Does “ALL MEN” really mean ALL MEN – Doesn’t it really mean ‘ALL THE ELECT’? ‘Does “EVERY MAN” really mean EVERY MAN – Doesn’t it really mean ‘ALL THE ELECT’? You see how it goes?”
You see JerryW, you aren't sincerely interested in my "explanations" - you are far more interested in trying to trip me up in my words. {Do the words “insincere” or “disingenuous” mean anything to you?}

I have reviewed all 10 Posts that you have made on this Forum since you joined nearly a year ago. Seven (70%) of those Posts are on Calvinism, which demonstrates that you are a fully committed Calvinist (that is Calvinistic doctrine is the “basis” or “foundation” of your “Belief System”.); and your other three Posts clearly demonstrate that you have no idea on how to “rightly divide the word of truth”.

And now onto your "loaded" question #1: “why would a loving God declare that he "wants all (as you define all) men to be saved", 1 Tim 2:4, when he knew way in advance not every human being is going to hear the Gospel message?”

Are you serious? Your question reveals an infantile attempt to “rationalize” WHY God does what He does. Is Almighty God unjust? “Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?” [Genesis 18:25] Is God "the Judge of all the earth" or just "part" of the earth? Does "all" in the verse mean "ALL" or just "part"? Would He send someone to Hell that didn’t deserve to be there because they didn’t “hear” the Gospel of the Grace of God? Have you not read?

Romans 3:23 For ALL have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; {Guess what? “ALL” is not just confined to your private interpretation of “All” – IT MEANS ALL!}

Psalms 53:2 God looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, that did seek God.
3 Every one of them is gone back: they are altogether become filthy; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. {Are there any exemptions to “every one” or “altogether”? Who does this verse apply to - if not “ALL”?}

Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away. {“all” = ALL – as in “ALL”! I can deal with ignorance – what I have great difficulty dealing with is “duplicity” and outright disingenuousness”!}

Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are withou texcuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Job 12:7 But ask now the beasts, and they shall teach thee; and the fowls of the air, and they shall tell thee:
8 Or speak to the earth, and it shall teach thee: and the fishes of the sea shall declare unto thee.
9 Who knoweth not in all these that the hand of the LORD hath wrought this? {Almost all of "educated" modern day man!}
10 In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind.
11 Doth not the ear try words? and the mouth taste his meat?

Do you think, for even a moment, that just because a man doesn’t “hear” the Gospel of the Grace of God, that he will not be held accountable or that he will be declared innocent? The whole of creation and the creatures in it are “witness” enough to the existence of God – all men are “without excuse”, whether they have heard the Gospel or not! [Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.] There’s that dreaded wordBELIEVE” again!

Job 9:32 For he is not a man, as I am, that I should answer him, and we should come together in judgment.

Job 4:17 Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?

Job 33:12 Behold, in this thou art not just: I will answer thee, that God is greater than man.
13 Why dost thou strive against him? for he giveth not account of any of his matters.

Without the Lord Jesus Christ, all of mankind is hopelessly lost (that’s why God inspired and preserved His word and instituted the Gospel, and that’s why God calls “preachers” [Romans 10:14-18]) But what if they haven’t heard – are they exempt from the judgment of God? I trow not! [Romans 3:23 For ALL have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; {“ALL”, in the CONTEXT, MEANS “ALL”!}

Job 16:19 Also now, behold, my witness is in heaven, and my record is on high.

Job 14:16 For now thou numberest my steps: dost thou not watch over my sin?
17 My transgression is sealed up in a bag, and thou sewest up mine iniquity.

Job 9:28 I am afraid of all my sorrows, I know that thou wilt not hold me innocent.

Job 10:14 If I sin, then thou markest me, and thou wilt not acquit me from mine iniquity.
15 If I be wicked, woe unto me; and if I be righteous, yet will I not lift up my head. I am full of confusion; therefore see thou mine affliction;

The above words were uttered by Job, about whom, God said: “that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil.” [Job 1:8] If a man like Job couldn’t make it on his own – who can? With the exception of the Lord Jesus Christ, has there ever been a man (or a woman) born of a woman who was (or is) without sin?

How about a few more sophomoric questions {from yours truly}:

WHY? - Would God choose the Hebrews, “above all the nations that are upon the earth” {out of all the people in the world}, to be His people? Doesn’t that seem to be extremely “narrow” and “unreasonable” from your point of view?

Deuteronomy 7:6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.
7 The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:
8 But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
9 Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;

Deuteronomy 14:1 Ye are the children of the LORD your God: ye shall not cut yourselves, nor make any baldness between your eyes for the dead.
2 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God, and the LORD hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth.

Isaiah 41:8 But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend.
9 Thou whom I have taken from the ends of the earth, and called thee from the chief men thereof, and said unto thee, Thou art my servant; I have chosen thee, and not cast thee away.

Isaiah 48:9 For my name's sake will I defer mine anger, and for my praise will I refrain for thee, that I cut thee not off.
10 Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction.
11 For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it: for how should my name be polluted? and I will not give my glory unto another.
12 Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.

WHY? – Would God choose to commit “the Oracles of God” (the Old Testament) to just the Jews (Hebrews) and no one else? What about the rest of the world? Hmmm? Doesn’t the fact that God committed the Holy Scriptures (His words) to some obscure and little known nation in the land of Canaan “seem” to be just a bit “unfair” to all the rest of the world?

Romans 3:1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

Acts 7:38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

WHY? – Are you trying to “rationalize”, or figure out the reasons that God does, or doesn’t do something?

Isaiah 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Loaded question #2 - Your quote:
Quote:
“Can you explain the meaning of 1 Cor 15:2,"By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have BELIEVED IN VAIN"?
Let’s clear the air about “Belief Systems”:

Everyone has a “Belief System”! Atheists BELIEVE that there is NO GOD; Agnostics BELIEVE that they aren’t sure if there is a God; Hindus BELIEVE that there are thousands of gods; Muslims BELIEVE that “Allah” is the “one true god”; Humanists BELIEVE that man is his own “god” (Humanism has spawned Communism, Nazism, Fascism; and Socialism – all “Belief Systems” within Humanism.)

I do not believe that people who have embraced the above religions (and many other religions that do not profess belief in Christ) have “believed in vain”, because what they profess to believe is vanity already. How can someone believe “in vain”, if what they believe in is completely contrary to the Holy Scriptures, and is a total lie?

I believe that when a person has “BELIEVED IN VAIN”, that they have “believed” some things ABOUT Jesus Christ, but they haven’t “BELIEVEDIN Him, or ON Him, or RECEIVED him. I will illustrate my belief with the following examples:

“J.B.” (Catholic) was a good friend of mine for about 12 years. During that time I and my wife witnessed to him (and his wife) on many occasions. Now “J.B.” was a forthright, honest, and hardworking man, who had a great deal of integrity and always endeavored to keep his word. He was perhaps the brightest and most talented man I have ever met in my life, but he stumbled at the “simplicity that is in Christ”. He believed that Christ was virgin born; he believed that Christ was God in the flesh; he believed that Christ rose from the dead; he believed that Christ performed miracles; and he believed that Christ died for sins.

What “J.B.” didn’t believe was that Christ’s sacrifice was completely sufficient for his sins - without “J.B.” having to do something more to earn his personal salvation. What “J.B.” didn’t do, was to BELIEVE ON or IN the Lord Jesus Christ and so he didn’t RECEIVE Him. He believed a whole lot of things ABOUT Christ without ever accepting the Gospel of the Grace of God; without ever trusting the work of the Lord on the cross as being complete - FINISHED. I believe that “J.B.” “BELIEVED IN VAIN”.

I have another Catholic friend (“E.S.”). “E.S.” believes that Christ was virgin born; he believes that Christ was God in the flesh; he believes that Christ rose from the dead; he believes that Christ performed miracles; he believes that Christ is coming soon to establish His Kingdom; and he believes that Christ died for sins.

He doesn’t believe that the Pope is “infallible”; nor does he think that the Catholic Church is the ONE AND ONLY “Apostolic Church” on earth. This man only gives $1.00 dollar a week to the Catholic Church (because of the Priest pedophile scandal) and the rest of his “tithe” he gives to various charities that support homeless children around the world. When it comes to honesty and integrity “E.S.” would put most Christians to shame, but “E.S.” also stumbles at the “simplicity that is in Christ”.

In the 13 years I have known “E.S.” I have witnessed to him dozens of times. Unlike most Catholics, he enjoys talking about the Lord and about the Bible – but he just can’t accept that the Lord Jesus Christ’s sacrifice on Calvary is completely sufficient for his sins. No matter how many times I have presented the Gospel of the Grace of God (in every way that I can possibly think of) “E.S.” just won’t BELIEVE ON or IN Jesus Christ for his personal salvation. I believe that “E.S” has “BELIEVED IN VAIN”.

There’s also was a man I knew (“D.R.”) back in the late 1960’s and early 1970’s, who installed Sheetrock (Drywall) in several houses that I built. “D.R.” was an EX Pentecostal, raised in Pentecostal churches, and who at one time was very active in “church work”. When I met “D.R.” he was a fornicating, foul mouthed, drug using, booze hound.

Because most of the crew that worked on the houses I built were Christians, we would often have some lively conversations about the Lord or the Bible during our “coffee breaks” or at lunch time – which “D.R.” would often overhear. There finally came a time when “D.R.” felt comfortable enough to speak to me about his “Christian” past, and he said to me: “I once was like you. I used to go to church three or four times a week; I participated in the church activities; I was even a Sunday school teacher; but I no longer believe in that stuff”. Of course I attempted to witness to “D.R.” - without any success.

Now “D.R.” (at one time) believed a lot of things ABOUT Christ, and at one time he believed in his church, and was very active in church work, but what “D.R.” had never done was to BELIEVE ON or IN the Lord Jesus Christ. He never trusted Christ as his personal Saviour, and so he never RECEIVED him. I believe that “D.R.” - “BELIEVED IN VAIN”.

Please bear with me, I have one more example. I met my oldest and best friend (besides the Lord and my wife) - Ray in 1968. Off and on we would work together in construction, and from 1968 through 1973, I would often have serious talks with Ray about the Bible and about the Lord Jesus Christ.

Ray was raised in a devout Pentecostal home (If you can believe this – his mother was a Pentecostal “preacher/pastor” for a while!). Ray had been around the Bible, preaching, and church practically all of his life, but the one thing that Ray had never done, was to trust the Lord Jesus Christ as his personal Saviour!

From 1968 up to late 1972 I tried every thing that I could think of to get Ray to understand “the simplicity that is in Christ” – to no avail. He believed everything ABOUT Christ that I believed. He wasn’t an “Apostate” or a “Reprobate”; he wasn’t “insincere” or “disingenuous”; he loved to talk about the Scriptures and the Lord (and still does), he just stumbled at the Gospel, he just couldn’t accept the finished work of Christ on the Cross (Ray thought that there just had to be more to Salvation – that is: "we just had to do something to keep it”).

After five years of witnessing and testifying to Ray I was running out of words (which I hardly ever do! ). It was close to Christmas and I finally came up with an idea, (a poor simile to be sure) of how Salvation works. I told Ray that if he would imagine a Christmas tree, and underneath it there was a GIFT marked Ray H.; and I said that GIFT is for you, and you know it’s for you, but unless you BELIEVE that GIFT is for you personally, and unless you RECEIVE it personally, you’ll never get to enjoy it. You can look at that GIFT all you want, and possibly "think" that that GIFT is for me; you can pick up that GIFT and say I'm pretty sure this is for me; you can shake that GIFT and think it must be something good; but unless you really and truly BELIEVE IN that GIFT and RECEIVE it – it will never be yours. It’s there for the taking, but you must BELIEVE and RECEIVE it, in order for it to be yours personally. {Of course I was talking about the GIFT of Salvation that the Lord Jesus Christ purchased for us all.}

Nothing happened then, but a few days later I received a call at about 11:00 O’clock at night - it was Ray, and he said: “George, I got saved!” I didn’t “lead” Ray to the Lord, the Holy Spirit did. Ray was sincere; he just didn’t understand “the simplicity that is in Christ”. For a long time Ray had believed practically all of the things ABOUT Christ that I did, he just had never trusted Him as his personal Saviour. Before Ray got saved – he had “BELIEVED IN VAIN” and would have died in his sins if he hadn’t BELIEVED ON or IN the Lord Jesus Christ, and RECEIVED Him as his personal Saviour.

Charles Spurgeon was the greatest preacher of the 19th. Century. Spurgeon was a master of the English language and spoke (and wrote) so eloquently that he would put any 50 preachers in America (today) to shame. He also was a "moderate" Calvinist.

While Spurgeon was on his death bed, one of the last things he is recorded to have said is: "My theology has gotten quite simple - CHRIST DIED FOR ME"! Now he didn't say 'Christ died for the ELECT' - Charles Spurgeon had honed his "THEOLOGY" down to JUST FOUR (4) WORDS: "CHRIST DIED FOR ME".

Whenever Christians depart from "the simplicity that is in Christ", they are treading on dangerous ground. They are either guilty of ADDING to the Holy words of God; or SUBTRACTING from them; or CHANGING them. I, for one, will endeavor to keep it simple, straightforward, and as plain as I can - "and let the chips fall where there may".

Now, JerryW, I have dealt with your “foolish and unlearned questions” for the last time. I have made it a standing rule (for the last 15 years or so) that once I perceive that a person is insincere and disingenuous, I leave off dealing with them. I have answered your “loaded” questions, in accordance with the Scriptures.

Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.” [Proverbs 26:5]

Proverbs 29:20 Seest thou a man that is hasty in his words? there is more hope of a fool than of him.

I will no longer answer any more of your “loaded” questions because in accordance with Scripture:

Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.[Proverbs 26:4]

Proverbs 26:12 Seest thou a man wise in his own conceit? there is more hope of a fool than of him.
  #53  
Old 02-23-2009, 08:09 PM
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Why is Calvinism so popular? Why does the list of popular preachers today (that aren't of the self help pursuasion) predominately calvinists...

MacArthur, Washer, Sproul, Packer, Piper, Stanley etc
  #54  
Old 02-23-2009, 08:31 PM
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Default Re: " CALVINISM: Sound Doctrine?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke View Post
Why is Calvinism so popular? Why does the list of popular preachers today (that aren't of the self help pursuasion) predominately calvinists...

MacArthur, Washer, Sproul, Packer, Piper, Stanley etc
Aloha Luke,

I believe that one of the main reasons that Calvinism is so popular is that Calvinism appeals to the "intellect", so it's real "Big" amongst the "academia" crowd. Everything is worked out ahead of time for Calvinists (i.e. a ”system of biblical interpretation and theological formulations) so they don't have to do their own individual research and study. {Kind of like College - No?}
  #55  
Old 02-24-2009, 02:31 AM
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George,

I suspect that answering Jerry had distracted you from studying out the other 2 parts of the Tulip. But we were patient as you were with dealing with his questions.

Good job and good answers

we are all looking forward to your IP Outlines and study
  #56  
Old 02-24-2009, 11:40 AM
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Default A word to JerryW...

Jerry, I personally know the difficulty of understanding and believing something the Bible clearly addresses when my mind is already made up. I do not know how old you are, I guess it doesn't really matter. But there came a point in my life that I stopped being afraid of God showing me "in scripture" where I've been wrong.

I earnestly plead with you to carefully and prayerfully re-read Brother George's exposition of scripture regarding Calvinism. We should not disregard the written word of truth because of our previous "mindset" or "sinful pride". Get alone, be still, and listen to the instruction of the Lord through the word and by the Holy Spirit. I think this is reasonable instruction for a professed Christian.
  #57  
Old 02-27-2009, 11:28 AM
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I have read all of Calvin, and the small amount that Arminius wrote.
I see lumping all Calvinists into into certain categories.
Using the TULIP as a straw man to tear down.

George,
you mean to say that you do not believe in eternal security?
I KNOW you do.
I saw your salvation video. [witnessing to some fellow that went to some church around the block].
You distictly told that man that he did not earn his salvation, and therefore could never loose it. Right?
*******
After reading Calvin and Arminius both among many others several times.
I am definitely NOT Arminian. Even though Arminius was much more Calvinistic than many people give him credit for, but he did raise a few questions and eventually stuck to his own thoughts.
*******
I basically am not a true Calvinist as many like to compartmentalize. ["All Calvinists MUST believe such and such in this section."]
I simply take God's word as the definer.
Once saved, always saved is biblical, yet this true Bible doctrine, is abused by many just like the grace of God.
Even whole church systems get sucked into this abusive greasy grace style, by almost complimenting each other in the sin they allow in their lives.
This abuse of a Biblical doctrine is definitely not right.
  #58  
Old 02-27-2009, 03:58 PM
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Brother George, I so appreciate the work you have put into this study. With your decades of walking in the spirit, you have graced those of us in this forum who are privileged to have the opportunity to absorb that edification you share with us, on all topics.

I have since the beginning of February printed and poured over each of your lesson's on Calvinism.

I am convinced that you took this time to teach me personally and for that I thank you.

As Paul instructed, I too will...
Colossians 4:2 Continue in prayer, and watch in the same with thanksgiving; for your continued edification's.

Thank you and bless you.
  #59  
Old 02-27-2009, 04:30 PM
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Default Re: "CALVINISM: Sound Doctrine?"

Quote:
"I have read all of Calvin, and the small amount that Arminius wrote.
I see lumping all Calvinists into into certain categories.
Using the TULIP as a straw man to tear down.

George,
you mean to say that you do not believe in eternal security?
I KNOW you do.

I saw your salvation video. [witnessing to some fellow that went to some church around the block].
You distictly told that man that he did not earn his salvation, and therefore could never loose it. Right?"
Aloha PeterAV,

I don't know WHO'S "Salvation Video" you saw, but I can assure you it wasn't mine!

I have NEVER made a "Salvation Video". As a matter of fact, I have never made a "Video" dealing with Salvation or any other topic from the Bible - so it must have been someone else.

In regards to whether I believe in ETERNAL SALVATION (and the corresponding PRESERVATION of the Saints) - the answer is unequivocally YES! Please check the following URL {My Thread - "What Would Happen IF You Could LOSE your Salvation?"}: http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...82&postcount=1

If you have any other questions about where I stand on God's Preservation of His saints, you might check out these also:

http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...03&postcount=3
http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...9&postcount=13
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As far as your statement is concerned:
Quote:
"I see lumping all Calvinists into into certain categories.
Using the TULIP as a straw man to tear down.
"
I try real hard not to "lump" people into "certain categories". Having said that, if a man identifies himself as a "Calvinist", then he must agree with much, if not all of Calvinism, otherwise why identify himself with John Calvin's teachings?

My Posts on Calvinism are not meant to castigate Calvinists per se, they are meant to compare Calvinist doctrine with the Holy Scriptures. T.U.L.I.P. is what Calvinism is known by, and so I have based my comparison on that famous acronym.

The fact that all Calvinists don't agree on everything that John Calvin taught is not very relevant, (have you ever met two Baptists that agree on everything? ) since if a person identifies himself as a Calvinist, he is in essence professing Calvinism publicly - even if he "differs" with John Calvin on some points.

Quote:
"After reading Calvin and Arminius both among many others several times.
I am definitely NOT Arminian. Even though Arminius was much more Calvinistic than many people give him credit for, but he did raise a few questions and eventually stuck to his own thoughts.
*******
I basically am not a true Calvinist as many like to compartmentalize. ["All Calvinists MUST believe such and such in this section."]
I simply take God's word as the definer.
Once saved, always saved is biblical, yet this true Bible doctrine, is abused by many just like the grace of God.
Even whole church systems get sucked into this abusive greasy grace style, by almost complimenting each other in the sin they allow in their lives.
This abuse of a Biblical doctrine is definitely not right.
"
As a Bible believer, I don't see any need to "identify" with Calvinism, Arminianism, or any other "ISM", for that matter. If you read my initial "Thread" and all of the Posts I have made concerning this issue, I think that I have made myself perfectly clear, in that I want nothing to do with either "camp". And I refuse to identify myself with them, and I also refuse to be LABELED by them - "Thank you very much"!

The "abuse" of Bible doctrine is so prevalent today that it is practically impossible to find a church in the U.S.A. that comes even close to the New Testament "example" left for us in God's Holy word. But that doesn't prevent individual Christians from seeking God and worshiping Him "in spirit and in truth".

My purpose for being on this Forum is to both "edify" and be "edified". I have met some wonderful brethren in Christ here and have appreciated many of their Posts and comments.

I hope this short Post answers any questions you may have about my stand on Calvinism. If not, read or re-read my Posts on this Thread and my Post on "Irresistible Grace" - coming soon.
  #60  
Old 02-27-2009, 04:44 PM
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George George is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Broken Arrow, Oklahoma
Posts: 891
Default Re:"CALVINISM: Sound Doctrine?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gord View Post
Brother George, I so appreciate the work you have put into this study. With your decades of walking in the spirit, you have graced those of us in this forum who are privileged to have the opportunity to absorb that edification you share with us, on all topics.

I have since the beginning of February printed and poured over each of your lesson's on Calvinism.

I am convinced that you took this time to teach me personally and for that I thank you.

As Paul instructed, I too will...
Colossians 4:2 Continue in prayer, and watch in the same with thanksgiving; for your continued edification's.

Thank you and bless you.
Aloha brother Gord,

Thank you so much for your kind and encouraging words.

It is my hope and prayer that everything that I teach (in church; or on my web page; or here on the Forum) will be true (according to the Scriptures), and that it might edify the brethren and be a blessing.

I deeply appreciate your response to the Posts, and should I ever say or teach something contrary to God's word, I encourage you to speak up and let me know.

Lately, when I get into studying the Holy words of God, I recognize just how little I really know, and it makes me realize that there is so little time left to learn what I should have learned years ago.
 

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