I don't mean to be a smart-aleck by asking this question, I really would like to know....How long would hair need to be to be considered long hair (I've been asked this question and I really don't know)?

Here is another verse that I've wondered and pondered about...

Song of Songs 5:11 His head is as the most fine gold, his locks are bushy, and black as a raven.

A woman's long hair covers her head in a way that a man's short hair does not: ie. covers the forehead, the ears, the neck, and possibly even part of the face. A man's hair is not to cover his head - that tells me I shouldn't have hair down to my shoulders, should not cover my ears or my face. Yes, that is my personal understanding of the passage - if anyone has another explanation of how a woman's hair covers her, I would love to hear it.

If the covering is external, that means a man is sinning when he wears a hat and prays out in the field (or on a construction site, or anywhere else a hat is necessary to protect him from the sun or other things) - when God tells us to pray continuously and to pray without ceasing.

Originally Posted by Diligent

We should be very careful not to misquote the Bible. The Bible says nature teaches it is a shame for a man to have long hair -- not that a man must have short hair. There is a difference, I think.

(Says a guy who sometimes shaves his head in the summer!)

Shaved would still be short, wouldn't it?

That's an interesting point about praying outside the church assembly and I've wondered about that too, since I'm unsure whether I should cover my head whenever I'm praying even in public or when I'm alone. I don't know how to answer this, but I will usually cover because I know that can't be wrong although being uncovered could be.

However, the scripture specifically refers to the congregation and Paul was addressing matters of order in the assembly in those chapters of 1 Corinthians, and he's talking about "praying and prophesying" so many have read it only to refer to the assembly where both sexes are gathered and prayer is spoken and public.

I do have one interesting example that I ran across though, and that is from the biography of Rees Howells, a man much used of God as intercessor in the Welsh revival of 1904. He prayed constantly wherever he was and felt God wanted him to leave his head bare at all times for that reason, which entailed quite a bit of embarrassment since a man would normally not have been seen in public without a hat on at that time.

Thank you Beth. Yes, John Gill is one whose commentary I consulted, and his comments are similar to most comments on this passage before the 20th century. Not that I could find a lot of them, but what I found all agree that Paul meant women are to cover their heads.

Yes, verse 6 is particularly difficult. But really just about ALL the verses in that passage are difficult. What does he say about verses 13 through 15 by the way?

When I first considered trying to get to the bottom of that passage I wondered if it was even possible because it seemed like I had nothing but questions in my head about every verse. ("Angels?" "Power" on the head?)

Originally Posted by Connie

Thank you Beth. Yes, John Gill is one whose commentary I consulted, and his comments are similar to most comments on this passage before the 20th century. Not that I could find a lot of them, but what I found all agree that Paul meant women are to cover their heads.

Yes, verse 6 is particularly difficult. But really just about ALL the verses in that passage are difficult. What does he say about verses 13 through 15 by the way?

When I first considered trying to get to the bottom of that passage I wondered if it was even possible because it seemed like I had nothing but questions in my head about every verse. ("Angels?" "Power" on the head?)

Originally Posted by John Gill

with her head uncovered. It may seem strange from whom the Corinthian women should take up this custom, since the Jewish women were not allowed to go into the streets, or into any open and public place, unveiled1. It was a Jewish law, that they should go out no where bare headed2: yea, it was reckoned scandalous and ignominious to do so. Hence it is said,3 שגלוי הראש גנאי להם, "that uncovering of the head is a reproach" to the daughters of Israel: and concerning the adulterous woman, it is represented as said by the priest4,

Paul was speaking of the custom at that time. It was a Jewish law for the women to remain covered. If they were not covered they appeared to be gentiles. I don't think this applies to us today.

"thou hast separated from the way of the daughters of Israel; for the way or custom of the daughters of Israel is להיות מכוסות ראשיהן, "to have their heads covered"; but thou hast gone "in the ways of the Gentiles", who walk with head bare.''

Although, I believe long hair for a woman is a glory to her and given her for a covering today. I think we have liberty in this, so if any one wants to put a covering on or not then more power to her.

Personally, I think a women should look feminine and if she looks boyish with short hair then that's most likely not glory to her. Personally, I have grown my hair out because of 1 Cor 11:15. shoulder length is as far as I can take it. It use to be much shorter.

Hi again Beth, my understanding of verse 15 is that Paul is saying that long hair is right on a woman and her wearing it long is a sign that by nature she intuitively understands the need to cover her head.

It seems to say that women DID wear their hair long in those days so he would have had no reason to tell them to do that (though usually they pinned it up), and history also shows that women wore their hair long up until the 20th century, specifically the Roaring Twenties when women for the first time in history started cutting it or "bobbing" it.

I think Paul is referring to the natural habit of women in wearing their hair long as further evidence for why they should also cover it, and the man's naturally keeping his hair shorter and even the natural baldness of many men could be used with the same kind of logic to argue that he should not cover his head with a hat in the congregation of worshipers. If nature didn't cover it, neither should he.

Well, but it was the custom of Jewish MEN and still is, for them to cover their heads, and they would pull a prayer shawl up over their heads, and still do, during prayer in the congregation, which practice Paul is specifically prohibiting, so he's not affirming the Jewish customs. I don't think Paul cared a fig about anybody's custom. And there were many cultures in Corinth and in the Corinthian church, all with different customs. Sometimes custom honors God and sometimes it doesn't. He specifically prohibited the custom of Jewish men even though he affirmed the custom of Jewish women and for the most part denied the custom of the Corinthians. I think the best understanding is that Paul and the apostles were obeying the Holy Spirit who taught a brand-new ordinance for the Christian assembly, not anybody's custom.

Originally Posted by Connie

Hi again Beth, my understanding of verse 15 is that Paul is saying that long hair is right on a woman and her wearing it long is a sign that by nature she intuitively understands the need to cover her head.

It seems to say that women DID wear their hair long in those days so he would have had no reason to tell them to do that, though usually they pinned it up, and history also shows that women wore their hair long up until the 20th century, specifically the Roaring Twenties when women for the first time in history started cutting it or "bobbing" it.

I think Paul is referring to the natural habit of women in wearing their hair long as further evidence for why they should also cover it, and the man's naturally keeping his hair shorter and even the natural baldness of many men could be used with the same kind of logic to argue that he should not cover his head with a hat in the congregation of worshipers.

I agree that it is good for a women to have long hair, (it's symbolic of her submission to God). I also agree it is to a man's shame to have short hair.

These are not commands though, so there is liberty here. A man that has long hair may learn from the study of God's Word that it is a shameful thing and then cut his hair to honor God and His Word. This can be a process of sanctification. Same thing for a woman. I was saved for 7 years before I realized it was glorious, (glory to God) to grow my hair.

I don't think we should judge our brethren in this, (same with the pants issue and women). We should let the Holy Spirit along with God's Word work out the sanctification in their life. It's fine to hold to our own convictions as the Holy Spirit and God's Word has convicted us personally.

Originally Posted by Connie

Well, but it was the custom of Jewish MEN and still is, for them to cover their heads, and they would pull a prayer shawl up over their heads, and still do, during prayer in the congregation, which practice Paul is specifically prohibiting, so he's not affirming the Jewish customs. I don't think Paul cared a fig about anybody's custom. And there were many cultures in Corinth and in the Corinthian church, all with different customs. Sometimes custom honors God and sometimes it doesn't. He specifically prohibited the custom of Jewish men even though he affirmed the custom of Jewish women and for the most part denied the custom of the Corinthians. I think the best understanding is that Paul and the apostles were obeying the Holy Spirit who taught a brand-new ordinance for the Christian assembly, not anybody's custom.

Looking at the custom of the day is important to rightly divide the word. This scripture specifically is talking about being daughter's of Israel. I'm not sure why Jewish men now cover their head's??

I guess the question needs to be answered is a women to have her head covered a command, (or even a custom) to the body of Christ? I just don't see it?