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Old 05-19-2009, 11:13 AM
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George George is offline
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Broken Arrow, Oklahoma
Posts: 891

Originally Posted by ScotArt View Post
You posted
"The problem is (according to the Bible) “spiritual things” are taught by the Holy Ghost and NOT by man, and so, although students who attend Bible schools may acquire a lot of KNOWLEDGE about the Bible; church history; etc.; - they CANNOT acquire spiritual DISCERNMENT, UNDERSTANDING, or WISDOM, from a school (or those who teach) since these “spiritual things” CANNOT be taught by men!"

"Not to be pendantic but are you not here applying restrictions to where and when and with whom the Holy Spirit may work and reveal Truth and wisdom.

Does the Holy Spirit spend time away from the "student" that his ability to "spiritually discern" is not in place for that particular time frame?

Also does the Holy Spirit not use "means" such as the pastor, teacher, faith sharer??? Is that "means" ie the Christian involved as instrument of Truth/wisdom, not also provided with grace and the Spirits divine power to bring the Word within the discernment provided for the hearer/student?

If I have misread your article I do apologise. But I don't see "spiritual discernment" as having an on/off switch in the true believer, whether they are being used by the Holy Spirit to communicate the Word or receive the Word. The Holy Spirit is surely a permanent resident when "indwelling" in the Christian. This would imply that HIS work is ongoing and continuous!

In Christ.
Aloha ScotArt,

Here is what the Holy Bible has to say about this issue:

1 Corinthians 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

I don't know what part of my little essay you don't understand (brother Chette and sister Nasil had no problem understanding), but I am puzzled by your reply. First off - you wrote: "pendantic", did you mean "pedantic":
pe-dan-tic [puh-dan-tik] - adjective

1. ostentatious in one's learning. 2. overly concerned with minute details or formalisms, esp. in teaching.

Also, pe⋅dan⋅ti⋅cal.

1590–1600; pedant + -ic

Related forms:
pe⋅dan⋅ti⋅cal⋅ly, adverb
pe⋅dan⋅ti⋅cal⋅ness, noun

2. didactic, doctrinaire. Unabridged
Based on the Random House Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2009.

pe-dan-tic (pə-dān'tĭk) adj.

Characterized by a narrow, often ostentatious concern for book learning and formal rules: a pedantic attention to details.
pe·dan'ti·cal·ly adv.
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2009 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Secondly: I am not "applying restrictions to where and when and with whom the Holy Spirit may work and reveal Truth and wisdom." at all! I would NEVER try to RESTRICT the Holy Spirit's work in anyway. You are "reading into" what I wrote - a private interpretation that was not meant or implied.

I am simply saying that when I teach the Bible, I can only teach "knowledge". I can point out differences, such as the the difference (in the Bible) between the Jews, the Gentiles, and the church, but unless the Holy Spirit instructs the believer (that is "gives" them the "discernment" to distinguish the difference between the three Scriptural divisions of all mankind) they will not "get it".

So, I may try to teach about "discernment" i.e. contrasts, differences, etc. (as I have often done here on the AV1611 Bible Forums), but if God doesn't instruct the believer, he cannot receive spiritual "discernment" (not from me).

And as far as spiritual "understanding" and "wisdom" go, I cannot "teach" those things at all! This is the reason I keep saying that Bible schools, colleges, and seminaries can teach Bible "knowledge", but genuine spiritual "discernment", "understanding", and "wisdom" come only from God and CANNOT be taught - not by pastors/elders; not by Sunday School teachers; and especially not by "Christian" college professors.

WHY is it that every single "Christian" College or University ever established eventually "apostatizes" (without one exception)? The answer is very simple (that is to someone like myself) "knowledge puffeth up" [1 Corinthians 8:1].

Church history has demonstrated (over & over again) that over time - Christians (in all Denominations & Sects) eventually "think" that "knowledge" (alone) qualifies a man to teach the Bible. That is: "Christians" - who lack not only "knowledge", but who also lack spiritual "discernment", "understanding", and "wisdom", entrust the instruction of future pastors, elders, and evangelists to extremely intelligent men who are very "knowledgeable" about the Bible, but who, more often than not, have very little spiritual "discernment", "understanding", or "wisdom". {Origen, Eusebius, Jerome, Augustine, & Calvin being "prime examples" - "Intelligence": erroneously referred to as "head knowledge", is in reality having to do with the "intellect", i.e. the mind - not the heart.}

But God is not interested in how "smart" (our intelligence) we are; or how much "education" (schooling) we have received; He's interested in "FAITHFULNESS" [1 Corinthians 4:2 Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful.] and the only way a man can be "faithful" to God is - he must be "faithful" to God's Holy words. God is not concerned with our "intellect" or "schooling" (like most Christians are today); God is concerned with our heart attitude, as the Scriptures clearly testify to:

1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

Do these verses describe the average "Christian" Bible teacher or professor in the "Christian" Schools and Colleges today? I trow not! But it does describe Paul & Peter; and James & John; and Timothy & Titus. WHY then has God chosen "the foolish things"; "the weak things"; the "base things"; the "things which are despised"; and the "things which are not"?


29 That "no flesh should glory in his presence".

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

Most Christians today "glory" in their "pastor"; or "teacher"; or in their "favorite Bible commentator"; or in their particular church (Denomination); or in their "Christian" School; or in their "Christian" College "professors". They "glory" in ANYTHING - but God and His Holy word!

According to the Scriptures - most of today's "Christian" churches (Evangelical & Fundamental - all others are not in view) in the Western world are "CARNAL" [1 Corinthians 3:1-4]. They are worse than the Corinthian church, the most "carnal" church in the New Testament. The fact that most Christians today cannot "discern" this, or do not "understand" this, speaks volumes about the true "spiritual condition" of the Evangelical & Fundamental churches (especially in the Western world) today.

Over the years, I have learned that, as far as the Bible is concerned - there are basically FOUR KINDS of people in the world; and THEIR APPROACH to the Bible is determined by WHO THEY ARE - there are:

Those Who ____________________________ Those Who Study _________________________ Those Who Study __________________________ Those Who Study
IGNORE IT _____________________________ TO DISPROVE IT _________________________ TO KNOW ABOUT IT ___________________________ TO BELIEVE IT

Most People -------------------------------- Agnostics Religionists --------------------------- Pharisees & Sadducees --------------------------- Genuine Bible Believers
Majority of Mankind -------------------- Adherents to World’s Religions ----------------------- Cults – False Religions ----------------------------- Sincere Truth Seekers
-------------------------------------------- Humanists -Secularists --------------------- “Scribes” - “Christian Educators” ------------------- Trust God for Its Preservation
------------------------------------------- “Scholars” - “Educators” ------------------------- Historians - Archeologists ---------------------- Believe God Rather Than Man
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------- Anthropologists, etc, etc. ----------------- Accept What’s Written & Don’t Change

The following verses are just some of the reasons I believe that the King James Bible is THE Holy Bible - inspired, perfect, infallible, and without error; and that is WHY it is my FINAL AUTHORITY in all matters of faith and practice. WHAT IS YOUR FINAL AUTHORITY?

Psalms 12:6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

Psalms 18:30 As for God, his way is perfect: the word of the LORD is tried: he is a buckler to all those that trust in him.

Psalms 33:4 For the word of the LORD is right; and all his works are done in truth.

Psalms 56:10 In God will I praise his word: in the LORD will I praise his word.

Psalms 119:9 BETH. Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? by taking heed thereto according to thy word.

Psalms 119:11 Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.

Psalms 119:16 I will delight myself in thy statutes: I will not forget thy word.

Psalms 119:42 So shall I have wherewith to answer him that reproacheth me: for I trust in thy word.

Psalms 119:74 They that fear thee will be glad when they see me; because I have hoped in thy word.

Psalms 119:81 CAPH. My soul fainteth for thy salvation: but I hope in thy word.

Psalms 119:105 NUN. Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

Psalms 119:114 Thou art my hiding place and my shield: I hope in thy word.

Psalms 119:128 Therefore I esteem all thy precepts concerning all things to be right; and I hate every false way.

Psalms 119:130 The entrance of thy words giveth light; it givethunderstanding unto the simple.

Psalms 119:133 Order my steps in thy word: and let not any iniquity have dominion over me.

Psalms 119:140 Thy word is very pure: therefore thy servant loveth it.

Psalms 119:147 I prevented the dawning of the morning, and cried: I hoped in thy word.

Psalms 119:148 Mine eyes prevent the night watches, that I might meditate in thy word.

Psalms 119:160 Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever.

Psalms 119:161 SCHIN. Princes have persecuted me without a cause: but my heart standeth in awe of thy word.

Psalms 119:162 I rejoice at thy word, as one that findeth great spoil.

Psalms 119:169 TAU. Let my cry come near before thee, O LORD: give me understanding according to thy word.

Psalms 119:172 My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness.

Psalms 130:5 I wait for the LORD, my soul doth wait, and in his word do I hope.

Psalms 138:4 All the kings of the earth shall praise thee, O LORD, whenthey hear the words of thy mouth.

Psalms 138:2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for
thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.

Real genuine Bible study should not be just an academic exercise or a mere intellectual pursuit. Instead, true Bible study should be an honest and sincere search for the truth. “What saith the Scriptures?”

Psalms 33:4 For the word of the LORD is right; and all his works are done in truth.

Last edited by George; 05-19-2009 at 11:21 AM.

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