Bible Versions Questions and discussion about the Bible version issue.

 
 
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  #51  
Old 05-07-2009, 09:44 PM
solabiblia
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Originally Posted by George View Post
sola,

I don't "seem to be" doing anything! And I never compared Sam Gipp to the Lord Jesus Christ! What are you doing with your blasphemy - putting words in my mouth? Do you have a problem with my Post? You (solabilia?) and "greektim" have NO FINAL AUTHORITY, so the question is - WHY are you here?
I was being polite by saying "seem to be." You did more than just hint at a comparison. You made a pretty strong comparison. You put Sam Gipp in the company of the Apostles and Christ. The blasphemy was not mine.

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Originally Posted by George View Post
I have approximately 700 Posts on this Forum. You couldn't find one of those Posts where I doubt WHAT the Holy word of God is - or WHERE I can find. There isn't one of those Posts where I have altered, changed, subtracted or added to the King James Bible - NO NOT ONCE!
No one doubts that you are a KJO.

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Originally Posted by George View Post
On top of that I have never QUESTIONED where someone (on this Forum or anywhere else for that matter) got his "degree" from - NO NOT ONCE! {I could "Care Less" WHERE someone went to school, or WHERE they got their "degree" from (I'm not an "intellectual snob"). SCHOOLS, DEGREES, and the people who have them don't impress me in the slightest! - Other than I have noticed that people like yourself and "greektim" are "PUFFED UP" over whatever knowledge you may have, and you demonstrate that PRIDE in almost all of your Posts.}
Fine. You don't care. Greektim did care, so he asked. To advance the conversation, all you had to do is offer an answer. Instead, you chose to attack the question, and then the questioner. Not Christ-like behavior.

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Originally Posted by George View Post
You can TWIST my words around all you want - you have already PROVEN to be a "pro" at it in the past, but the fact is when someone inquires where someone got their degree from - that someone is "fishing" for something and I'm NOT biting!
Actually, you surmised that he was fishing, and you jumped the gun.

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Originally Posted by George View Post
I've got "news" for you bud - I'm going to answer anyone anyway I want, and if you don't like it you can go to "greektim's" blog and have a nice "theological discussion"! Who do you think you are trying to tell me how to answer someone, or keep silent? Hmmm? If it bothers you so much find another Forum where you can spread your Humanistic drivel!

I would NEVER consider joining a Forum that didn't believe in the King James Bible as the FINAL AUTHORITY in all matters of faith and practice - it would NEVER enter my mind or my heart to do so. What purpose would it serve to "join" with people (like you & "greektim") who are not of "like mind" as myself? So again the "question": WHY are you here, amongst so many Christians that are of a different mind on the Holy word of God? What purpose are you serving by being here?
Last I knew, this is a public forum. If you want a private forum, there are ways to do that. You have your motives for being here, I have mine.

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Originally Posted by George View Post
We don't have "conversations" with "Christians" who denigrate the Holy word of God or who "take an "extreme" stand against those who believe in it: ("I am extremely against the KJV only view.") It always comes around to the same question: WHY are you and "greektim" here? Don't you know of another Forum where everyone is "polite" and "courteous", and never criticize anyone for anything? Can't you find a place where you all can have the same mind on all subjects and be in agreement about how much you despise the King James Bible and especially those King James Bible ONLY people? Wouldn't you be much happier amongst your "own kind"?
I like it here. Is that OK?

Quote:
Originally Posted by George View Post
Since you have joined this Forum all we have ever heard from you is your "clever" remarks and destructive criticism of a Book that most of us on this Forum hold dear to our hearts. You have NO FINAL AUTHORITY, other than your own opinions, and you are never going to "persuade" any of us to your unbelieving Humanistic viewpoint about God's word, so take a hike bud, we don't need you here to slip in and snip & snipe every once in a while, and take cheap pot shots at genuine Bible believers.
I use the KJV in my private devotions (Cambridge, by the way). I teach from the KJV every Sunday to a class of about 50 scholars. I have the KJV on my computer and my PDA for quick reference. I have memorized somewhere around 50 chapters of the KJV. I have been going to churches that use the KJV since I was one week old. I probably would think long and hard before attending a church that did not use the KJV. I love it, cherish it, quote it, and live by it.

What more do you want? Do you have no room in your tent for someone who sees the hand of God in the translation and dissemination of the KJV and prefers it above other texts? Do I have to chant "Four legs good, Two legs bad" at all the right times in order to please you? Have you ever heard of legalism? How long since you read Galatians? Or Romans 14?

Have you ever stopped for a minute to reflect on whether all this shrill rhetoric is necessary? Have you noticed how so many on this board seem to be so eager to establish his or her KJO credentials? Just about every other post has the flavor of "Shoot, that's nothing, I would crawl from here to Cambridge on ground glass for the KJV!"

I'm just suggesting that you reflect a bit instead of reacting.
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  #52  
Old 05-07-2009, 09:46 PM
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I've met Gipp and had breakfast with him. He was a gentleman and a scholar.
  #53  
Old 05-07-2009, 11:06 PM
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Originally Posted by George View Post
Aloha brother Winman,

You may be surprised by what I am going to say - but I do not know Sam Gipp and have never read any of his books. I do know that he came to the Island of Kauai and preached a couple of times and I didn't go to hear him because the church that brought him over is a totalitarian dictatorship (which doesn't speak well about WHO brother Gipp chooses to associate with.)

My whole point in this "donnybrook" is I really don't care WHERE a man has gone to "SCHOOL" or whether he has a "DEGREE" or not!

Peter James, John, and many of the other Apostles NEVER went to SCHOOL and the Lord Jesus Christ "picked" them (I suspect that one of the reasons for choosing them was the fact that they HADN'T GONE TO SCHOOL and in turn had never been "brain-washed" by a bunch of Pharisaical Apostate "Professors"), and you know what? They did just fine!

Apollos was "mighty in the scriptures" and yet had to be "straightened-out" by a couple of ordinary Christians who sewed tents (Priscilla & Aquila). And the Apostle Paul (who had learned from the top "PhD" of his time {Gamaliel} counted his "DEGREES" as "DUNG"! I refuse to "translate" THAT in the "vernacular" so that all those with "degrees" in the Greek & Hebrew can understand it! )

The fact is, many of these people with "degrees", or those people who place "significance" in a man with a "degree", are "puffed-up" intellectual elitists, who look down their noses upon all of the "unwashed masses" (you & me) as a bunch of "ignoramuses".

I've had my "fill" of them for over 40 years, and I refuse to be "cowed" by them or "impressed" with them! They are nothing but a bunch of Bible denying apostates living off of ignorant Christians who "think" that because they (the Bible deniers) have a "degree" - THEY MUST KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT!

Genuine Bible believers must not "give place" to these people - "NO, NOT FOR AN HOUR" [Galatians 2:5] If we fail to confront them and "contend for the faith" - we will be failing in our responsibility to WARN the brethren and our DUTY to "admonish", "reprove", or "rebuke" the "GAINSAYERS"!

When dealing with "gainsayers" & "apostates" we are not required to be polite and "sweet". These people are out to spread their perverse "LEAVEN" and they have no principles! They will not hesitate to "join" with us and through guile and subtlety they will try to undermine our faith in God's Holy word. I for one, refuse to stand by and do nothing about that.

We are in a WAR brother, and church history has demonstrated over and over again that the enemy that we must beware of is WITHIN our ranks! The Apostle Paul WARNED us about this [Acts 20:17-32] and every church that ever was in existence from the Apostle's time up to the early 1900's has IGNORED that WARNING and has fallen into APOSTASY! There have been NO EXCEPTIONS!

I will not cease to WARN the brethren - whether they like me or not; whether think that I am out of order or not; and whether they believe that I am just a crotchety old man or not! Now is not the time to let down our guard:

1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.
Brother George, you might be interested and surprised that I too hold a degree.

It was the night on the street that my wife took our Scripture boards, which were posters of Bible verses tacked to thin pieces of wood, and with some string tied them together and wore them as sandwich advertising boards. She was hit with a rock, the board saved her from any injury. That night also I was talking to some cultists from Herbert W. Armstrong's scam when I was hit with a plastic bag filled with urine, I stepped out of the puddle and kept talking till I was finished answering their questions about the KJV, one scoffed, one said he wanted more info, and dripping urine I led him to the tract table and gave him some booklets.

The scoffer asked me where I got my theology degree, I told him I got an Orderly Degree In Theology here on Fifth Street. He sneeringly asked what an Orderly of Theology did, I said Orderlies clean up the mess the doctors make.

Grace and peace brother.

Tony Bones Oth
  #54  
Old 05-07-2009, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Greektim View Post
Where did he recieve his ThD? I am very curious. Was it from Ruckman's school?
Tim, I think the somewhat negative response you got is because that in many instances when a man makes controversial stands, as does Dr. Gipp on the KJV, it is the messenger attacked and not the message and several people have been attacked in their affiliation with Dr. Ruckman's school due to the fact that I THINK Dr. Ruckman's school is not accredited by the state of Florida, due to secular standards the states imposes that many Christian schools reject, particularly PBI's stand on Roman Catholicism. Then it breaks down into an argument of not the issue(the KJV) but My Degree Vs. Your Degree.

Grace and peace

Tony
  #55  
Old 05-07-2009, 11:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solabiblia
Just about every other post has the flavor of "Shoot, that's nothing, I would crawl from here to Cambridge on ground glass for the KJV!"
Pr*13:10 Only by pride cometh contention: but with the well advised is wisdom.

Pr*17:14 The beginning of strife is as when one letteth out water: therefore leave off contention, before it be meddled with.
  #56  
Old 05-08-2009, 05:43 AM
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I use the KJV in my private devotions (Cambridge, by the way). I teach from the KJV every Sunday to a class of about 50 scholars. I have the KJV on my computer and my PDA for quick reference. I have memorized somewhere around 50 chapters of the KJV. I have been going to churches that use the KJV since I was one week old. I probably would think long and hard before attending a church that did not use the KJV. I love it, cherish it, quote it, and live by it
That is wonderful stuff, you teach scholars from it, you have it on your computer, you have memorized 50 chapters, fantastic, you love it, cherish it, quote it and live by it. But Do you live by it, do you hold it as the infallible innerant word of God, or do you simply "prefer" it to other versions?

Whats with the nonsense you posted here...
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by George View Post
Greektim,

I wonder where Peter, James, and John got their "degree"? Where did Paul & Apollos "matriculate" and get their "degree"? Where did the Lord Jesus Christ get His "degree"? Hmmm? What difference does it make WHERE someone got his "degree" or whether he even has a "degree" or not? Hmmm?

Are only those with people with "degrees" QUALIFIED to teach and preach God's word? Are only those people with "degrees" to be listened to and all of the rest of the men whom God has called (without "degrees") to be ignored?[/font]
You seem to be comparing Sam Gipp to the apostles or the Lord Jesus Christ.

Well, let me tell you something. I know the Lord Jesus Christ. The Lord Jesus Christ is a friend of mine, and Sam Gipp is no Lord Jesus Christ.

Try not to obfuscate, dodge, and change the subject without answering. The question was not "Does it matter where he got his degree?" The question was "Where did he receive his ThD?" If you know, please advance the conversation by answering. If you don't know, please advance the conversation with your silence.
Brother George simply stated, that none of the apostles required a "degree" to teach or preach, nowhere did he compare Sam Gipp to the status of apostle, he plainly said that a man does NOT require a degree or doctorate to preach or teach the word of God and was plainly using the unlearned disciples of The Lord Jesus Christ as an example(Not comparing Sam Gipp), just as Luke did.

Acts 4:13 Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus.

Quote:
Actually, you surmised that he was fishing, and you jumped the gun.
No need to surmise when you read "all" of his posts. And see where he is coming from on HIS webspace. His position on the Bible version issue stands out like a sore thumb.

Last of all, your unprofitable posting on this forum has yet to bear any "scripture" When anyone is rebuked of their intentions (discernment which you appear to lack), their "oh so clear" intentions, it is done with scripture to back it up. So back to my question which one of your 15 posts contains Holy Scripture? (Considering this is a Bible Believing Forum) and do you simply "prefer" the KJB over the rest of the modern, emergent church apostate trash?

I will tell you one thing we must all stand before the Judgment seat of Christ, but I don't want to say to my Lord and Saviour "I couldn't find it" when he asks me why I didn't keep his word that he has preserved in one place, in one book, in one promise.

FINALLY don't start spouting of about "legalism" are you a friend of Jordan?
That was his favorite hand me down.

if there was ever a time more suited for this scripture below than its first application to Timothy, it is for today, the times we live in, the state of the church, its apostate nature and it weakened carnal Christian who has no idea they are in a war, has no idea "where" God has preserved his word, has no idea how to handle "rebuke", Pastors that have the attitude "sure, lets just let them keep making the mistakes, eventually they will learn, wont they?"
rather than chastising them with SCRIPTURE, they are feeding them on "the Greek" diminishing their belief in one Bible, diminishing their own belief in themselves in their knowledge of Gods word, thinking they must go to the Greek to be enlightened and edified. Its all phoney, its all a sham, its all a shame.


2 Timothy 4:1-8 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry. For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

  #57  
Old 05-08-2009, 01:02 PM
Tandi
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Originally Posted by George View Post
Tandi,

I will ask you the same question I asked "greektim" and "solabiblia" - WHY are you here? ......

You profess that you are a King James Bible believer, BUT your Posts (i.e. the comments within them) continually reveal that you are nothing of the sort!

......

Whether you like to hear it or not - your Posts reveal that (just like "greektim" & "solabilia") you have NO FINAL AUTHORITY (other than your personal "opinions") when it comes to faith and practice. .....

You have entered "the arena" (Bible doctrine) where real men dwell and abide; and you know what they say: "If you can't stand the heat, you'd better get out of the kitchen".

........
If you decide to stay, you'd better get used to it. After 69 years I sure ain't going to change to suit some woman (who I don't know), who has so little spiritual discernment, that she is a "Judaizer" and doesn't even know it!
Hello George,

Why am I here? I like to think it is because the LORD led me here. Don't worry, I can stand the heat* of insults and rejection from professing believers, whether Messianic, Baptist, or any of the 39 flavors of Christianity. I am quite used to it. Gives me lots of practice in remembering Jesus' words in the Sermon on the Mount.

Why do I stay? I am an ugly duckling looking for the swan pond and not finding it. So I swim wherever I can find some water.....until banished. It won't be the first time, if that were to happen. First two were Messianic forums. My comments have also been deleted from a couple of prominent Messianic blogs for being controversial I guess. So much for being a Judaizer. I don't seem to fit in anywhere. My friend and I started a forum and invited everyone to participate, whatever their viewpoints, but after a year, not much conversation there. Not sure why. If anyone here would like to "sharpen iron" you are welcome at:

http://torahtimes.org/forum/


* I can't stand the heat of the literal kitchen though....I am more of a Mary than a Martha.

I will reprint my introduction from my very first post to remind everyone of why I came here. If I am unqualified to fellowship here, just let me know.

Quote:
Hi Everyone,

I have been a KJV fan since receiving a Gideon’s New Testament with Psalms and Proverbs shortly after my born-again experience in 1982. My daughter brought this “little red Bible” home from school in the 5th grade. I read it cover to cover in three days. My complete testimony is at my website.

http://tandi-1964.blogspot.com/2007/...testimony.html

The first time I walked in to a Christian bookstore to buy a complete Bible, I felt dizzy and confused with the wide assortment of Bibles. I had no idea there were so many varieties. I just wanted a Bible. I left the store and prayed about what Bible to buy and ended up in a Walden Bookstore that only had one Bible on the shelf, a KJV. After reading that one until the binding fell apart, I bought a better quality KJV and continued learning and growing and encountering the LORD through the pages of Scripture. When I tried to read an NIV or some other version, I did not sense the same intimacy with the LORD that I did with the KJV. Subsequently, I read about the Bible version controversy and became convinced of many of the arguments in favor of the Received Text. I have read through the Bible every year since the mid 1980’s and appreciate the KJV more and more each time through.

Recently I became interested in the Gap theory (Ruin-Reconstruction) and ended up at the site of Gaines Johnson.

http://www.kjvbible.org/


I found the articles there quite interesting and appreciated his KJV stance. That led to a Google search for another KJV Bible believer that I had lost touch with, which led to finding this forum where both Geologist and Steven Avery are posting! So I signed up the other day and am reading the posts with interest. I especially hope to glean additional insights in the Gap theory vs. YEC positions, as I am in the process of weighing the evidence. I hope the dialogue here is conducive to friendly discussion and sharing of various points of view. I am a friend, not foe....although I may not walk in lockstep on every point of doctrine. It is nice to be able to discuss things from the basis of believing the same Bible at least, and believing that it is indeed the Word of God.
Shalom,

Tandi
  #58  
Old 05-08-2009, 01:19 PM
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Diligent Diligent is offline
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Tandi,

I know this is going to fall on deaf ears, but you need to dump the torah/hebreaic/sabbath stuff, and move from being a "fan" of the KJV to a believer in it. If you aren't willing to put yourself into subjection to a final authority that you can get your hands on (no "running to the Greek and Hebrew" when it doesn't suit you), you will be "Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth."

I can't imagine anyone will make much progress here with you if you are simply unwilling to subject yourself to an authority external to your own self.
  #59  
Old 05-08-2009, 01:24 PM
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I am reminded of a situation that happens in my neighborhood occasionally. A neighbor has several dogs in his fenced yard that take umbrage when I walk my dog down the street past their yard. They are barking and howling and running back and forth behind the fence, letting my dog know just how much they would like to bite her. Every so often in their frenzy, they bump into each other and then start fighting and jumping on each other instead of barking at my dog! Hmmm.
  #60  
Old 05-08-2009, 01:45 PM
solabiblia
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Originally Posted by peopleoftheway View Post
That is wonderful stuff, you teach scholars from it, you have it on your computer, you have memorized 50 chapters, fantastic, you love it, cherish it, quote it and live by it. But Do you live by it, do you hold it as the infallible innerant word of God, or do you simply "prefer" it to other versions?
Both, actually.
 

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