Bible Versions Questions and discussion about the Bible version issue.

 
 
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  #31  
Old 09-26-2008, 08:27 AM
Steven Avery Steven Avery is offline
 
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Hi Folks,

One problem with this view, especially when expressed very stridently, is that many of us became believers in the Lord Jesus Christ when we only knew and and read deficient versions. We simply did not know any better, and in fact often the spirit did quickeneth. I certainly will not say about the deficient versions I was using at that time that there was "no word of God". I did learn some about God through those versions, and more so when I moved from the alexandrian versions to Received Text versions. Later still came the fully correct move to the King James Bible. Precept upon precept, line upon line.

Clearly, I will agree that sincere believers will be drawn to the pure Bible, recognizing their need for the consistent and true and pure and perfect representation of God's word, the King James Bible. Much as sincere seekers of truth are drawn to the Lord Jesus Christ, recognizing their need to be covered by the blood of the lamb. However I do not find it purposeful to disown and attack those aspects of the deficient versions that are actually reasonable. Especially when sharing with those in the same type of ignorance as was I when I learned about the Bible question.

I realize there is little give-way in these discussions. Folks who want to emphasize the perversion terminology and the no-good view will do so. Their views are understandable, however I personally do not find that expressing that view as the end-all of the matter is helpful.
Shalom,
Steven
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  #32  
Old 09-26-2008, 08:31 AM
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bibleprotector bibleprotector is offline
 
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My view is that expressed by Brother Tim:

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Originally Posted by Brother Tim
A big distinction needs to be made here. Most modern versions CONTAIN the Word of God to various degrees. The KJB IS the Word of God in completeness. A person can read the MVs and still have the message of the Gospel presented (at this point ... future versions may not be useable) What will be hindered is the growth of the believer once he is saved. Because doctrines are distorted, and truth is compromised in the MVs, the meat necessary for spiritual growth will not be there.
  #33  
Old 09-26-2008, 09:56 AM
Scott Simons
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Default Bewitched or not to bewitched?

A question would be are (deficient versions) DV are for Jesus Christ or are they against him.
I would have to say they are not for Jesus Christ rather they are against him.
Does the words of God equivocate the Spirit of God?
Why was Paul so concern with [KJ] Galatians 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
What untold damage these Perversion Version –PV have done, if they are just deficient then maybe not so much, huh.
As believers we have been way to tolerate of the perversion of the word of God.
If perversion versions are just deficient then that is a deferent story. I would have to say no harm no foul. Then you would have to say the diluting of the word of God is not a diminishing of the word rather well intended men, just made some a mistake or oops a few errors. I don’t think so rather it is an intentional operation to bewitch people.
Perversion versions are divinations and sorceries not just deficient.
If one begins in the flesh or an emotional reaction to manipulation of the word of God, does one really believe in there heart?
So to say the perversion of God’s words is to bewitch one, by a divination; through the sorceries of those that hate God is just deficient may be a little to passive to a major problem.
Or you can say that the perversion is not a bewitching, or a divination, to work the sorceries of the enemy.
How serious is the enemy and how serious are we?

What say you?
  #34  
Old 09-27-2008, 08:04 AM
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If we are to have our conscience in order, and do properly, we should obey the instruction not to touch the unclean thing, but to depart from evil. However, the issue is that God's people (sincere born again Christians) were touching the unclean thing, or in Babylon by default at this time, which means that they must “come out”. Thus, rather than to write the “offenders” off, God in His mercy is outworking things so that of the multitudes of those connected to modern versions, some, even many, can be delivered and freed.

The issue is whether or not the power of God is greater than the bewitching which has affected Christianity. Even though very few people seem to be not bewitched does not mean that God’s power is limited. Remember, "Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts."
  #35  
Old 09-27-2008, 01:14 PM
joshjefflawn
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Originally Posted by bibleprotector View Post
Can Greek be used as a help to define, understand or clarify a word or passage?[/url]
There are sertintly things in the Bible that arent easily understood, like the parables for example. But greek couldn't help at all because they are things that are spiritually discerned.
Just because you can't get something from a verse in the Bible, doesn't meen that there is something wrong with that verse. It could be that that verse, what ever it may be that your having trouble with, is a verse that God wants us to seek him directly with, he may want us to pray, to spend time studying it.
The bible is the most amazing book ever written. How else can you explane finding something speacial from say romans that you never saw before, even though you have read romans 900,000 times.
I don't see anything wrong with using Greek or hebrew, or a Concorance, as long as you remember that the best source for understanding something is the Lord himself, the author of the Bible.
  #36  
Old 09-27-2008, 09:37 PM
Scott Simons
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bibleprotector View Post
If we are to have our conscience in order, and do properly, we should obey the instruction not to touch the unclean thing, but to depart from evil. However, the issue is that God's people (sincere born again Christians) were touching the unclean thing, or in Babylon by default at this time, which means that they must “come out”. Thus, rather than to write the “offenders” off, God in His mercy is outworking things so that of the multitudes of those connected to modern versions, some, even many, can be delivered and freed.

The issue is whether or not the power of God is greater than the bewitching which has affected Christianity. Even though very few people seem to be not bewitched does not mean that God’s power is limited. Remember, "Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts."
I certainly think God’s powers is greater than anything, God however choices to do certain things certain ways. I do happen to agree with your PCE position and sincerely have accepted that there should be a standard, and that your comments would better fit those not using the PCE yet.
Although, I think you may have not got the point I am making about perversion versions (PV). That the danger is more than superficial, and is more diabolical than we may have first thought, therefore the point of sorceries, divinations and the really the out right witchcraft that these PV induce is more hideous than imaged.
We have looked at the Gospel in away that seem simple enough, however cults and non-christian sects have presented a different or another Jesus. Wherein PV also present another Jesus, ie John Hagee Jesus is not the Messiah, the Mormon Jesus blood did not save us, the PV Jesus did not pour out his soul unto death.
What we can look for is just as the Christians of Germany sold out Jesus for the Nazi, the false or deceived believer will worship and follow the Anti-Christ or a anit-christ just as they followed Hitler.

By the way I don’t think a very few people are bewitch but rather a very large amount are bewitched, and certainly the verse indicates such and well as it is by the spirit and not by the flesh.

The mystery of iniquity does work, and ~The Narrow and Wide Gates
Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

The problem is way bigger that we are giving it credit for and we are the few that even recognizes it as a problem.
  #37  
Old 09-27-2008, 11:05 PM
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You seem to doubt the salvation of those who have modern versions. I say that if the light shines to them and they reject the light, then they are in danger of hellfire. In fact, I think that quite a few are not saved to begin with, though they began their christian walk/ministries with "good intentions". What you are talking about is people who actually love darkness and error, that is, they make a choice to decieve themselves. I am certain there are still many who are trapped into modern versions rather than this being an overt (though deceptive) choice.

I am glad you agree on the PCE.

Finally, it may be that there is to be a kind of civil war on the KJB issue, because in the end, those who are willing to "die" for modern versions must be not of Christ, and thus, it would not be a civil war, but one of darkness versus light, but with both sides invoking the name "Christ" and the notion of "Scripture". (Two different "Christs" and two different kinds of "Bibles".)

It is important not to think that just because there are "few" right, and "many" on the broad path to destruction that this is to continue in this same way: the few are impowered to make a difference, and make inroads: see Isaiah 41:15, Isaiah 60:22, Daniel 12:3, Acts 12:24, Acts 19:20, etc.
  #38  
Old 09-28-2008, 08:13 PM
Scott Simons
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[QUOTE]
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Originally Posted by bibleprotector View Post
You seem to doubt the salvation of those who have modern versions.
What is curious to me is how we delineate perversions of God’s word to a modern version or deficient versions. What is going on, if there are corruptions in the word of God does that make it a version? I would say that the Geneva Bible was a version, and several others before the King James was translated and edited to the Bible God has promised and we now handle. Perversion Versions (PV) certainly is more definitive to the reality we now face with this attack on the word of God. If we are born again of an incorruptible seed, being the word of God, and not another Gospel, which is not another gospel any more that so called versions of the bible are a bibles or versions of the bible. We give creditability to perversions of God’s words when we call them modern or deficient.

Quote:
I am certain there are still many who are trapped into modern versions rather than this being an overt (though deceptive) choice.
If we are born again by this seed that is not corrupt how can we be born again another way? For it would be better that we had not know the way of righteousness, for the later is worse.

Quote:
It is important not to think that just because there are "few" right, and "many" on the broad path to destruction that this is to continue in this same way: the few are impowered to make a difference, and make inroads:
I not sure what you where getting at with the few I would certainly not oppose of the Jonathan view point.
1 Samuel 14:6 And Jonathan said to the young man that bare his armour, Come, and let us go over unto the garrison of these uncircumcised: it may be that the LORD will work for us: for there is no restraint to the LORD to save by many or by few.
I thought we where talking about how many are bewitched.



The point may be, are people really born again when they believe, or rather they fall away after they are born again and then are twice dead. I really don’t know for sure, I know all arguments and have never been convinced one way or the other. I know the word of God is definitive on not adding or taking away the words of God and the doctrines of men diminish the word of God making the word of none affect.


How long is “a while”, if you believe do you believe, if you fall away where do you fall away from, if you are unable to attain repentance or be renewed unto repentance, if you say Lord Lord what are you, if you preach the Gospel of Christ on TV for years and years later deny Jesus is the Messiah what is that, if you have grand crusades where millions come to the alter and are lead in a born again praying with the preaching of versions of the bible what is that, what is a great falling away, should I go on?

Eternal security is a promise, he will never forsake us, and no man is able to pluck us out of his hand, and nothing is able to separate us from his love, and a smoldering reed he will not be put out. How much more secure can we be, we have the promise of God.

Going on to the main point if God’s words are spirit; are perversions of his words spirit also and if so what spirit? Can we be born again with the preaching of another gospel? Do not these versions preach another gospel, I think so.
We should heed that the light is not darkness.
Indeed they are not versions of God’s word neither in spirit or intent, rather are the very word of the devil, Satan himself, and we should bear against them, not give them legitimacy in calling them modern of deficient.

I can not change what God said, why should we diminish from it, after all we have received the love of the truth, and they obviously have not or have fallen away.

Again to further literate what I have said before there is “No words of God in Perversion Version” until you understand with your heart, and believe in your heart you will not be converted, and healed.

Your testimony may be you began in a version that had a semblance of God words, but that does not make it in anyway God’s word, the devil play a dangerous game with our lives, cunning and deceitful. Coprointel is what it is and we need not be ignorant of the devises of the devil.

You begin in the Spirit if you where drawn and called, it was the Spirit of God and not perversion versions, great is God’s mercy, wherein he has overcome the world, not by might, or by power, but rather by his Spirit.
That is why our calling to expose this great evil is so important; we should get closer to being on the same page, and call them Perversion Versions.

A pound of wheat with an ounce of poison becomes all poison.

Previous examples how the German Christian Church followed an antichrist, Hitler, should be amp warning where we are heading, being Pre-Trib or Post may matters little, judgment begins in the house of God.
  #39  
Old 09-29-2008, 03:29 AM
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PB1789 PB1789 is offline
 
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Well folks,,,seems another Thread has gone off the tracks...

...and it seems to me that the guy who has derailed it started another thread about "Perversion Versions",,,but not enough folks wanted to play over there so he decided to "shoehorn' into this thread.

Since the subject of salvation via anything else than using the A.V./K.J. has come up on this thread... {BTW- Steven Avery and Bible Protector said some rational things.} I thought that I would mention something that I heard just the other day while driving and listening to the Moody Bible Institute Radio Station up here-(sponsored by Alaska Village missions)- an interview with Anne Graham Lotz---(a daughter of Billy and Ruth Graham) ---

She told the interviewer that she had been watching a movie titled: "King of Kings" when she about 7 or 8 years of age. When the part of the crucifixion was shown, she realized that she was a sinner and needed a Saviour..!

The Holy Spirit used a movie about Jesus Christ to work upon this girl's soul...even though she grew up under the roof of a house with a famous Evangelist, The Lord used something else to convict her.

BTW--- If any of you folks are looking for a nice gift for someone, or yourself, I would suggest that next time you are at the bookstore you take a look-see at Anne's Devotional book. Unlike some (most) Devotionals, her book is laden with scripture.
  #40  
Old 09-29-2008, 07:42 AM
Scott Simons
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Originally Posted by PB1789 View Post
Well folks,,,seems another Thread has gone off the tracks...

...and it seems to me that the guy who has derailed it started another thread about "Perversion Versions",,,but not enough folks wanted to play over there so he decided to "shoehorn' into this thread.
Sorry this does not fit into your thinking, maybe you should re read Which Bible, there is more in there that first meets your mind.

Quote:
Since the subject of salvation via anything else than using the A.V./K.J. has come up on this thread... {BTW- Steven Avery and Bible Protector said some rational things.} I thought that I would mention something that I heard just the other day while driving and listening to the Moody Bible Institute Radio Station up here-(sponsored by Alaska Village missions)- an interview with Anne Graham Lotz---(a daughter of Billy and Ruth Graham) ---
Wow, now Billy Grahman, does he use the King James or promote perversion version, I praise not Billy Graham the real gospel of Jesus Christ is ministered by the Holy Ghost.



Quote:
She told the interviewer that she had been watching a movie titled: "King of Kings" when she about 7 or 8 years of age. When the part of the crucifixion was shown, she realized that she was a sinner and needed a Saviour..!
Lots of people realized they are sinner and need a Saviour.

Quote:
The Holy Spirit used a movie about Jesus Christ to work upon this girl's soul...even though she grew up under the roof of a house with a famous Evangelist, The Lord used something else to convict her.
It not Holy Spirit it is the Holy Ghost that uses what is available to work on the soul. I am sure that the Holy Ghost had to do something odd seeing that see may never be able to hear the gospel from her famous evangelist father.

Quote:
BTW--- If any of you folks are looking for a nice gift for someone, or yourself, I would suggest that next time you are at the bookstore you take a look-see at Anne's Devotional book. Unlike some (most) Devotionals, her book is laden with scripture.
I wonder what bible she using today in that book?

Sorry to seem to be so harsh with you but you are not walking on water.
And I really mean it about re-reading "Which Bible"
 

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