Bible Versions Questions and discussion about the Bible version issue.

 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #191  
Old 12-25-2008, 09:44 AM
hebrews928
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

George,

All of your statements concerning what we truly believe are inaccurate and misleading. Not one of your statements honestly presents our position - as we have stated it on this Forum (over and over again).

For example?

Reading your post #186 I kinda felt you were misrepresenting my position, as if I'm an advocate for a new translation every year?

I think God prefers the available copies of the original language manuscripts. We need an English translation of that Scripture.

Last edited by hebrews928; 12-25-2008 at 09:52 AM. Reason: I was gonna make a change and now I think I'll leave it as is
The King James Bible Page SwordSearcher Bible Software
  #192  
Old 12-25-2008, 10:18 AM
MC1171611's Avatar
MC1171611 MC1171611 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Western Ohio
Posts: 436
Default

Again, the issue comes down to Final Authority. Mr. Hebrews here doesn't want a concrete "hold it in your hand" AUTHORITY, because that would mean that he would have to SUBMIT to it, and we know how much the flesh hates that "S" word.

When you go about to decide what Bible is right or "preferable," you make yourself superior to God Himself, since you don't think that God did a good enough job giving us a Bible so you need to do His job for Him. How abominable! Would God promise to preserve His word to every generation, and then fail to do it? I trow not! Would God give us such an incomparably majestic work of Truth as the King James Bible and then turn around and let "pious," money-grubbing Laodecians "revise" it? God forbid! Your entire premise is based not on FACT, but on a LACK of FAITH: a lack of FAITH in God and His ability to keep His promises. If He couldn't preserve His word like He PROMISED, then how do you think He's going to keep you eternally secure like He PROMISED?

Yet another snake-oil peddler, ladies and gents. Don't be fooled by this charlatan.
  #193  
Old 12-25-2008, 10:40 AM
hebrews928
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

MC1117,

"another snake-oil peddler"? "charlatan"? - LOL

Why do you refuse to submit to the Scriptrues, ie the available copies of the original manuscripts, and instead chose to venerate the KJV translation of the Scriptures as the final authority?
  #194  
Old 12-25-2008, 10:44 AM
George's Avatar
George George is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Broken Arrow, Oklahoma
Posts: 891
Default Re; "Why Reject the NKJV?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by hebrews928 View Post
George,

All of your statements concerning what we truly believe are inaccurate and misleading. Not one of your statements honestly presents our position - as we have stated it on this Forum (over and over again).

For example?

Reading your post #186 I kinda felt you were misrepresenting my position, as if I'm an advocate for a new translation every year?

I think God prefers the available copies of the original language manuscripts. We need an English translation of that Scripture.

Aloha hebrews928,

Your statement:
Quote:
"For example?"
I gave you lots of "examples" (READ THE LINKS) - if you bothered to read them! I repeat - Everything that you attributed to us as "our beliefs" about the King James Bible are not only misleading, but they are demonstrably FALSE! (READ THE LINKS!)

Your Statement:
Quote:
"I think God prefers the available copies of the original language manuscripts. We need an English translation of that Scripture."
You "think" that God prefers "the available copies of the original language manuscripts"? WHICH ONES - Hmmm?

In the New Testament alone there are approximately 5,500 Greek manuscripts available (mostly partial mss) - Which ones does God "prefer"? Not one of those manuscripts is a complete BIBLE (66 Books - complete and without any error.)

Do you believe that all Christians must become proficient in the "original languages" and have to rely on Greek and Hebrew teachers in order to understand the words of God?

Are we supposed to "throw away or discard" our God honored Holy Bible, (for nearly 400 years) just because you (and others) "think" that God prefers - "the available copies of the original language manuscripts"? Thanks - but NO THANKS!

Your statement:
Quote:
"We need an English translation of that Scripture."
I have "News" for you - WE HAVE ONE! It was first known as THE HOLY BIBLE; then as the AUTHORIZED VERSION OF 1611; and now is known as THE KING JAMES BIBLE!

You (and others) may "need" a new English Translation to suit your "personal preferences", but if, and when, you ever get one, are you going to be totally satisfied with it? Are you going to ever accept any English translation as your FINAL AUTHORITY in all matters of faith and practice? Or are you always going to run to the "the available copies of the original language manuscripts" whenever you find something in them that you "personally" disagree with?

You see - We (genuine Bible believers) may disagree on some issues in the Bible, but there is one thing that we are all of one mind on, and that is: We believe that the King James Bible (formerly known as the AV1611 & The Holy Bible) is our FINAL AUTHORITY in all matters of faith and practice. We do not run to another "translation" because our Bible is "archaic" or too hard to understand. We do not run to "the available copies of the original language manuscripts" every time we "think" that our AUTHORITY may be "wrong" somewhere. We accept our Bible as being God's Holy word (perfect and without error) - Just exactly as God intended for us to have in ENGLISH.

What do you have to offer in place of that? Hmmm?
  #195  
Old 12-25-2008, 10:52 AM
MC1171611's Avatar
MC1171611 MC1171611 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Western Ohio
Posts: 436
Default

Amen Bro. George! Sic 'em!
  #196  
Old 12-25-2008, 11:06 AM
hebrews928
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Re #194

I gave you lots of "examples" (READ THE LINKS) - if you bothered to read them! I repeat - Everything that you attributed to us as "our beliefs" about the King James Bible are not only misleading, but they are demonstrably FALSE! (READ THE LINKS!)

I guess I'll leave it up to the rest of the readers to determine for themselves who is misrepresenting whom.

In the New Testament alone there are approximately 5,500 Greek manuscripts available (mostly partial mss) - Which ones does God "prefer"? Not one of those manuscripts is a complete BIBLE (66 Books - complete and without any error.)

I'll settle for whatever copies of the originals that the KJV translators had before them when they translated such into English. Even those copies may not be 100% accurate to the originals. But I don't believe the available manuscripts were unreliable enough that God said, "Looks like we will have to start over on this Scripture thing, let's cook up a KJV, and then all will be well."

Do you believe that all Christians must become proficient in the "original languages" and have to rely on Greek and Hebrew teachers in order to understand the words of God?

I think the KJV and the NKJV are good enough to understand most of the words of God, but if you want to get closer to 100%, you need to go to the Scriptures themselves, which means "become proficient in the "original languages" and have to rely on Greek and Hebrew teachers" (or preferably, lexicons), which is much easier to do than it use to be. And btw, KJVO or NKJVO doesnt guarantee proper interpretation and thus good doctrine, and good doctrine is the ultimate goal. There of plenty of KJVO false teachers out there, for example. Plenty.

Are we supposed to "throw away or discard" our God honored Holy Bible, (for nearly 400 years) just because you (and others) "think" that God prefers - "the available copies of the original language manuscripts"? Thanks - but NO THANKS!

I didnt suggest otherwise.

Your statement:
Quote:
"We need an English translation of that Scripture."
I have "News" for you - WE HAVE ONE! It was first known as THE HOLY BIBLE; then as the AUTHORIZED VERSION OF 1611; and now is known as THE KING JAMES BIBLE!


It may be the best translation available (I havent figured that out for sure yet), but it is only a translation, and not the Scriptures themselves.

You (and others) may "need" a new English Translation to suit your "personal preferences", but if, and when, you ever get one, are you going to be totally satisfied with it? Are you going to ever accept any English translation as your FINAL AUTHORITY in all matters of faith and practice? Or are you always going to run to the "the available copies of the original language manuscripts" whenever you find something in them that you "personally" disagree with?

I expect we are stuck with the present circumstances for the duration.

We believe that the King James Bible (formerly known as the AV1611 & The Holy Bible) is our FINAL AUTHORITY in all matters of faith and practice. We do not run to another "translation" because our Bible is "archaic" or too hard to understand. We do not run to "the available copies of the original language manuscripts" every time we "think" that our AUTHORITY may be "wrong" somewhere. We accept our Bible as being God's Holy word (perfect and without error) - Just exactly as God intended for us to have in ENGLISH.

What do you have to offer in place of that? Hmmm?


You already know what I have to offer in place of that but it'd be a little more work than you apparently want to do.
  #197  
Old 12-25-2008, 01:41 PM
George's Avatar
George George is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Broken Arrow, Oklahoma
Posts: 891
Default Re: "Why Reject the NKJV?"

Aloha hebrews928,

My statement:
Quote:
"We believe that the King James Bible (formerly known as the AV1611 & The Holy Bible) is our FINAL AUTHORITY in all matters of faith and practice. We do not run to another "translation" because our Bible is "archaic" or too hard to understand. We do not run to "the available copies of the original language manuscripts" every time we "think" that our AUTHORITY may be "wrong" somewhere. We accept our Bible as being God's Holy word (perfect and without error) - Just exactly as God intended for us to have in ENGLISH.

What do you have to offer in place of that? Hmmm?"
Your reply:
Quote:
"You already know what I have to offer in place of that but it'd be a little more work than you apparently want to do."
I presume you mean: "the available copies of the original language manuscripts". Since it is obvious (from your Posts) that you do not consider ANY TRANSLATION (in any language) to be Scripture other than those manuscripts written in Hebrew and Greek (and you have "reservations" about some parts of them also).

Poor Martin Luther and all of the rest of the deluded Reformers (I guess they wasted their time translating the Holy words of God into German, French, Spanish, Italian, Dutch, Norwegian, Swedish, Finnish, etc., etc. After all, the minute they translated God's Holy words into something other than the "sacred" Hebrew and Greek - those words ceased being Scripture and became "second or third class" status - just a "mere translation" of the "real thing", i.e. "the available copies of the original language manuscripts".

And what of the hundreds of sadly mistaken missionaries who gave their lives to spread the word of God throughout the world from the 1600's up to 1900. Just think, they all "thought" that they were dealing with Scripture (not just a "mere translation" of Scripture) when they went out and turned the world upside down (with just a "mere translation")!

Nowadays, of course, you know better than they did! Now you know that the Scriptures are only limited to the original languages, i.e. "the available copies of the original language manuscripts". I guess they were "ignorant" of your vastly superior knowledge that God's Holy words (Scripture) are limited to Hebrew and Greek, and that all other languages are "inferior".

Just think - instead of going out into the world with only a Holy Bible (AV1611) in their hands, believing God was going to bless them and his Holy word in another language (and He did!), they could have stayed at home and studied the Greek and Hebrew all their lives and let the whole world go to Hell in a hand basket!

Your comment:
Quote:
"but it'd be a little more work than you apparently want to do."
You are sadly mistaken (again) as to how much work and study I have put into this issue {Which Bible}. So if the Apostle Paul could boast a little, I figure it is alright if I do the same. [2 Corinthians 11:16 I say again, Let no man think me a fool; if otherwise, yet as a fool receive me, that I may boast myself a little.]

I was saved in October 1958 and became aware of the "Which Bible" issue in 1968. Since then I have spent a minimum 12,000 - 15,000 hours studying:

1. The Question: Which Bible?
2. The Internal Evidence: What Does God Say?
3. Old Testament History of the Text.
4. New Testament History of the Text.
5. The History of the Transmission of the Text of the Bible in the Church Age.
6.The Manuscript Evidence.
7.A Comparison of Versions.

In addition to all of the above I also spent an additional 2,000 hours (or more) studying church history. How much more "work" would you have me to do in order to satisfy your requirements?

Your careless comment:
Quote:
"but it'd be a little more work than you apparently want to do."
was made in ignorance of what has actually taken place in my life.

I have been aware of this issue (Which Bible) longer than many people on this Forum have been living, and I have had 40 years to "sort" out most of the arguments in favor and against my belief.

You have the freedom and liberty to believe whatever you want to believe about this issue. I have no authority over you or anyone else on this Forum. But if you think that you can come in here with your shallow, misinformed arguments, based on either ignorance or duplicity, and think that you are going to persuade any of us genuine Bible believers to your point of view - you've got another thought coming.

There are several members on this Forum that have got me beat, hands down, when it comes to this issue (Steven Avery, Bible Protector, Manny Rodriguez, and Will Kinney come to mind right off the bat - and there are others). You're gonna have to do better than your pathetic attempts to put us down (or the convictions that we hold) so far.

There have been better men (and a few women) than you that have tried before - all without success!
  #198  
Old 12-25-2008, 02:34 PM
hebrews928
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the KJV which was once delivered unto the saints in 1611.

Preach KJVO; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure KJVO; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves the NKJV, having itching ears;And they shall turn away their ears from the KJV, and shall be turned unto fables.

KJV is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

But hath in due times manifested his word through KJVO, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour;

But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the KJV, which we preach;

Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of KJVO, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of KJVO, he hath both the Father and the Son.

Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to KJVO which ye have learned; and avoid them.

As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach from no other version than the KJV

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the KJV, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine of KJVO; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

Holding fast the KJV as he hath been taught, that he may be able by KJVO both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.
  #199  
Old 12-25-2008, 02:48 PM
hebrews928
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by George View Post
Poor Martin Luther and all of the rest of the deluded Reformers (I guess they wasted their time translating the Holy words of God into German, French, Spanish, Italian, Dutch, Norwegian, Swedish, Finnish, etc., etc. After all, the minute they translated God's Holy words into something other than the "sacred" Hebrew and Greek - those words ceased being Scripture and became "second or third class" status - just a "mere translation" of the "real thing", i.e. "the available copies of the original language manuscripts".
You're not representing the KJVO position, which would be this:

Poor Martin Luther and all of the rest of the deluded Reformers (I guess they wasted their time translating the Holy words of God into German, French, Spanish, Italian, Dutch, Norwegian, Swedish, Finnish, etc., etc. After all, the minute they translated God's Holy words into something other than the KJV - those words ceased being Scripture and became "second or third class" status - just a "mere translation" of the "real thing", i.e. KJV.
  #200  
Old 12-25-2008, 04:28 PM
George's Avatar
George George is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Broken Arrow, Oklahoma
Posts: 891
Default Re: "Why Reject the NKJV?"

hebrews928,

Since you refuse to deal with any of the points that I have brought up concerning the issue of Final Authority; and since you have been wrong about everything that we profess to believe about our Holy Bible; and since you were wrong about how much time I have spent in studying this issue; and finally, since you cannot refute any of the points that we have made - I bid you Aloha.

I cannot wish you God speed, since you have proven yourself to be both dishonest and disingenuous. I learned long ago that there is no benefit in continuing to try to reason with someone who is not interested in the truth. (If there can be no edification, there is no benefit in continuing.)

I'm sure there are a lot of "Evangelical" Forums out there that would welcome you with open arms.
 

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

The King James Bible Page SwordSearcher Bible Software

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:10 AM.

Powered by vBulletin®, Copyright vBulletin Solutions Inc.

Website © AV1611.Com.
Posts represent only the opinions of users of this forum and do not necessarily represent the opinions of the webmaster.

Software for Believing Bible Study

 
Contact Us AV1611.Com