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  #11  
Old 10-10-2008, 06:39 PM
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[quote=Vendetta Ride;9378]If I might make an interjection...

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"I agree with him, and with Here Am I. I'd give you a lengthier quote, but I'm not very adept at balancing a book on my lap while typing; I blush to admit that I have to look at the keyboard to type!"
Aloha brother Vendetta Ride,

Amen brother to all that you and brother {dare I say his name} Ruckman) say.

Sad to say I labor under the same "handicap" (not a "touch-typist"). Perhaps we can apply for a "handicap sticker" for when we shop at Wal-Mart!
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  #12  
Old 10-10-2008, 06:51 PM
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I am watching this thread very closely. I will not comment because Linda and BC have been shared this in another thread.

I too am a sight based typist (handicapped) I was much better before but lost it somewhere and never picked it up again.
  #13  
Old 10-10-2008, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by George View Post
Aloha sister Here Am I,

A word of warning sister: - the comments of BC and LindaR are not to be relied on. However, brother Forrest is asking a legitimate question. And I think your statement covers the issue.

This "problem" stems from the teaching that "Salvation has always been the SAME" from the creation of Adam up until the Great White Throne Judgment (in every Dispensation and under every Covenant of God.).

If BC's and LindaR's supposition ("that Salvation has always been the same") is right then their judgment on this issue is correct. HOWEVER, if "Salvation" in the Millennial reign of Christ is dependent on "works", then you are correct!

Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

{What are the "books" for - if everyone is going to the Lake of Fire? What is "the book of life" doing there -
if everyone is going to the Lake of Fire i.e. "The Second Death"?} Salvation today is dependent upon one thing: Have you believed on and received the Lord Jesus Christ as your Saviour? If the answer is YES - your as good as "in the DOOR"; if the answer is NO - your as sure to go to hell as you are that the Lord Jesus Christ lived and died for your sins. WORKS have NOTHING to do with us. BUT, what about the Millennial saints?

In the Millennium, where does FAITH come into play when the Lord of Glory is ruling and reigning on the throne of David, and you have millions of glorified saints all over the world, ruling and reigning with Him? [Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.] Where is the "Faith", when millions of carbon copies of Jesus Christ are going to be present on this world, ruling and reigning with the Lord of Glory, who will rule and reign from His Throne in Jerusalem?

If the people in the Millennium can SEE the Lord Jesus Christ (and millions of glorified saints) Just exactly where is FAITH if:
[Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.]

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Why is the Lord looking in the "book of life" - looking for someone, if they ALL are already condemned? "Whosoever was not found" - can we except the concept that the Lord is looking in the "book of life", and all that He is going to find is DEATH? I trow not.

Now, if a fellow Christian believes like BC and LindaR, I am not going to fight with him (or her). However, if someone insists that I am "wrong", then I might take issue with them and present my side of the issue and defend my belief.

I do not believe that this issue is a "Fellowship" BREAKER - unless someone becomes belligerent and obnoxious over it.
"Howdy" Brother George (as they say in Texas).

Works did not have anything to do with whether they were cast into the lake of fire, did it? I thought they were specifically cast into the lake of fire because their names were not written in the book of life.

Furthermore, isn't the judgment seat of Christ also a judgment based on works whether they be good or bad? Yet, we know a person receives eternal life by simply believing in the Lord Jesus Christ, not based on good works.

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Why is the Lord looking in the "book of life" - looking for someone, if they ALL are already condemned? "Whosoever was not found" - can we except the concept that the Lord is looking in the "book of life", and all that He is going to find is DEATH? I trow not.
My question, brother, is why is the Lord looking at all? He is all-knowing, and in my opinion, is not looking to see who is saved and who is lost.
  #14  
Old 10-10-2008, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by George;9380/
Aloha brother Vendetta Ride,

Amen brother to all that you and brother {dare I say his name} Ruckman) say.

Sad to say I labor under the same "handicap" (not a "touch-typist"). Perhaps we can apply for a "handicap sticker" for when we shop at Wal-Mart!
Now, that's a terrific idea! And maybe we can even get the Feds to give us some "Disability Payments" every month!

I'm going to write my Congressman immediately. Maybe they can write an "earmark" for us!

  #15  
Old 10-10-2008, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Vendetta Ride View Post
If I might make an interjection...

A certain gentleman in Pensacola, commenting on Revelation 20:12-15, has this to say:

"There are saved people at this judgment also. (See Rev. 11:17-18.) The saved people that are judged at this judgment are people who were saved by faith and works in the Tribulation, and saved by works in the Millennium. They are judged 'according to their works,' and some of them are found 'written in the book of life.'"

Commenting on Rev. 11:18, he says:

"Now,you've been taught (if you've been taught at all) that there are no saved people at the Great White Throne Judgment. You've been taught that this is the judgment of the unsaved dead only, and there are no saved people there. This is an error. You can see it immediately by the fact that there are 'rewards' passed out at the White Throne Judgment. Rev. 11:18 is not the Judgment Seat of Christ where New Testament Christians are rewarded; it is the Great White Throne Judgment where 'his servants the prophets' are rewarded ... The judgment of Church-Age saints takes place in Heaven, during the Tribulation. But this judgment (Rev. 11) takes place at the end of the Millennium, yet there are saved people there. (The word 'saints' throws the expositors into a panic; they think the word 'saints' applies to Church-Age saints, as Paul uses the word in Romans 1; 1 Corinthians 1; etc.)"

I agree with him, and with Here Am I. I'd give you a lengthier quote, but I'm not very adept at balancing a book on my lap while typing; I blush to admit that I have to look at the keyboard to type!

(The Bible-Believer's Commentary on Revelation, Peter S. Ruckman.)
Okay, brother. I'm open to learning. First, I've heard of this.
  #16  
Old 10-10-2008, 07:10 PM
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People are judged according to their works at the GWT, yes.

But people's works are also judged at the JSoC a thousand years prior to that.

And it is not their works that save them in either case. Paul wrote we are saved by grace through faith... not of works lest any man should boast.

Just as works will not save now, works will not save during the Millennial Kingdom.
  #17  
Old 10-10-2008, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Vendetta Ride View Post
Now, that's a terrific idea! And maybe we can even get the Feds to give us some "Disability Payments" every month!

I'm going to write my Congressman immediately. Maybe they can write an "earmark" for us!

Brethren. Absolutely no offense taken. I'm laughing. But perspective is everything. Cheer up you old timers! I can barely sit up in my "wheelchair". And I really am "pecking" like a "drunk". I have Multiple Sclerosis.
  #18  
Old 10-10-2008, 07:18 PM
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what people's will be judged at the JSOC? Christians only? Christians and righteous Jews? Christians, righteous Jews, and righteous men who died before Abraham? Christians, righteous Jews, Righteous men who died before the Law? Christians, Righteous Jews, rihgteous men before Abraham and the Law,and righteous men died before the flood?

Where does the heathen who is judged by his conscience get judged? the Bible says that they will be judge for the things they know and if they lived a righteous life in fear of God though they never heard of God or Jesus by what the world around them that was revealed to them. the Bible tells us they will be excused or condemned by what they know, so when do they get judged if not at the GWT some going to hell some going to heaven.

forrest, works are always done in faith or not in faith. when works done by faith prior to the cross or during the Tribulation it would get them written in the Lambs book.

works during the Millennial Kingdom wil be by works alone because they cant have faith in that which they can see, Jesus sitting on His throne. remember Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. you cant have faith in Christ int eh Millennial Kingdom only works. if the works are done with pure motive they will be written in the lambs book of life. if not they will face judgement right on teh spot for He is a righteous judge. you don't dare come to Jerusalem in the millennial Kingdom with your oblation with a wrong motive or inpure heart in the work. it will get you judged and executed.

Last edited by chette777; 10-10-2008 at 07:30 PM.
  #19  
Old 10-10-2008, 07:18 PM
Vendetta Ride
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Originally Posted by Forrest View Post
Okay, brother. I'm open to learning. First, I've heard of this.
It came as a shock to me, too; but, dispensationally, I think it makes perfect sense.
  #20  
Old 10-10-2008, 07:23 PM
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Brethren. Absolutely no offense taken. I'm laughing. But perspective is everything. Cheer up you old timers! I can barely sit up in my "wheelchair". And I really am "pecking" like a "drunk". I have Multiple Sclerosis.
God bless you, brother. I have been spared your difficulty, but when I mentioned "disability payments," I did so with a rueful smile. I received SSI for about ten years, for a different problem! That's one of the reasons I chose my signature quote.
 

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