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Old 06-09-2008, 10:41 AM
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Default Should Christians Confess Their Sins?

I John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
I have recently dealt with a backslidden member of my church that, among other things, is questioning the validity of I John 1:9 for us today. (I say backslidden, for he has dropped 3 ministries that he was actively involved in for a paintball team, and so on.)

This teaching generally is propogated by "hyper-grace" or "hyper-disp." that believe I John does not doctrinally apply to the church in any way. Since God has forgiven the believer of all trespasses (Col. 2:13), they teach that Christians have no sins to confess. If a Christian does sin, it's already forgiven and "under the blood" - out of God's view. They also love to quote Rev. 1:5, Unto him that loved us, and washed from our sins in his own blood.

The man I'm referring to reads the verse as if it's talking about the day that he got saved. He confessed his sins (as in an admission of his condition) and was forgiven of them when he received Christ.

So, in his living room, he asked me to prove to him from scripture that Christians need to confess their sins.

Anyone want to take a stab at?
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Old 06-09-2008, 02:28 PM
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You can put these in an orderly fashion. I'll just put out verses that come to mind.

Romans 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Hebrews 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Ephesians 4:17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,

Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

1 Corinthians 6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

I got a lot more that comes to mind, but I'll leave this one to the more prolific writers.

I would say this man is not reading the Bible. I can't get through any chapter without being convicted of ongoing sin. A good sermon on the Bema judgment would have him reevaluate.

Last edited by Debau; 06-09-2008 at 02:48 PM.
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Old 06-09-2008, 03:28 PM
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You can tell him to read that verse in context also.

1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1 John 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

This is addressed to saved Christians.

If he is not experiencing chastisement, he should be worried.
Hebrews 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.


Maybe he's hyper-C?

Last edited by Debau; 06-09-2008 at 03:45 PM.
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Old 06-09-2008, 06:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbiwolski View Post
I John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
I have recently dealt with a backslidden member of my church that, among other things, is questioning the validity of I John 1:9 for us today. (I say backslidden, for he has dropped 3 ministries that he was actively involved in for a paintball team, and so on.)

This teaching generally is propogated by "hyper-grace" or "hyper-disp." that believe I John does not doctrinally apply to the church in any way. Since God has forgiven the believer of all trespasses (Col. 2:13), they teach that Christians have no sins to confess. If a Christian does sin, it's already forgiven and "under the blood" - out of God's view. They also love to quote Rev. 1:5, Unto him that loved us, and washed from our sins in his own blood.

The man I'm referring to reads the verse as if it's talking about the day that he got saved. He confessed his sins (as in an admission of his condition) and was forgiven of them when he received Christ.

So, in his living room, he asked me to prove to him from scripture that Christians need to confess their sins.

Anyone want to take a stab at?
Aloha pbiwolski,

We are NOT commanded to rightly divide "the Books of the Bible" - we are commanded to rightly divide "the word of truth". Hyper-Dispensationalists (or Ultra) actually are "lazy" in their approach to Bible study. It's a lot easier to "cut" the Bible up into books (those exclusively for the Jews and those exclusively for Gentile believers) and disregard the words of God in books ("that are not written to me") or to discard entire books in the Bible that you don't agree with (for whatever reason), than have to "rightly" divide the words of God.

What Ultra-Dispensationalists (or Hyper) conveniently forget is that it's ALL SCRIPTURE. [Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. ] It's ALL THE WORDS OF GOD [John 8:47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.]. And as such we are to rightly divide the word of God and apply the words (NOT BOOKS) of God where they belong and to whom they are applicable. Like I said - that's a much harder job.

I'm not sure that there is much that you can do for someone who is "willful", but here are a few verses he should consider:

Psalms 19:12 Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults.
13 Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.

2 Peter 2:10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.


To "presume" upon God's Grace is not only sinful, but also "dangerous" to one's health and physical well-being. Since your friend probably discounts the entire book of Hebrews, he is ignoring a word of warning from God about how he deals with all of His wayward children (Jews {Israel} in the past and Christians all during the "church age".).

Hebrews 12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.


As Christians, we are secure in the Lord Jesus Christ's "finished work" on Calvary on our behalf; but we are not "immune" from the law of gravity or the law of Sowing & Reaping!

Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

Please notice - this last quote is from the Apostle Paul (the Apostle to the Gentiles) and it is written to Christians located in the Gentile churches of Galatia - NOT the churches in Judea, Galilee, or Jerusalem (with mostly Jews).

Does your friend truly believe that the Bereans only studied those "books" that they "thought" were applicable to them only? Does he think that Timothy only studied Paul's letters - to the exclusion of all of the rest of the Scriptures? I trow not. Timothy was studying the "scriptures" before he met Paul. What scriptures is Paul referring to when he said:

2 Timothy 3:14
But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

"All scripture" - Hmmm, I wonder what that "means"? Do you think that it just might mean - ALL SCRIPTURE?. That's why I keep continually repeating - I'm not interested in what God's word "means" - I want to know what it "SAYS".

Pray for your friend - if he is a child of God, he will not "get-away" with presumptuous sin. No one ever has!
  #5  
Old 06-09-2008, 06:51 PM
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If we confess our sins, he is faithful...

I, too, believe that 1 John is written by one of the twelve apostles to the twelve tribes. When taken doctrinally, the "if's" such as in 1 John 1:7 make the fellowship with the Son and the cleansing blood of Christ conditional. 1 John 1:9 may also be used by works advocates to teach that "if" we fail to "confess our sins", we will not be forgiven and cleansed from all unrighteousness.

But unlike the "hyper-grace" (although I don't really fear labels), I believe all Scripture is profitable (2Tim.3:16) practically. 1 John 1:7 and 1:9, if applied spiritually to the Christian in this age, this teaches that we our out of fellowship (in the practical sense, but not in the positional sense) with Christ if we do not walk in the light and do not confess our sins.

I know that many would agree that there are three applications of Scripture: historical setting, doctrinal interpretation, and practical application. I see no problem with saying 1 John is doctrinally not applicable to the Church Age saint, but there sure is a big problem in teaching that 1 John can never be applied to the Church Age saint in the practical sense.

This is not to say that I never use "general" doctrines out of 1 John. 1 John 1:7 is my favorite verse to refute the doctrine and purpose of purgatory, for the "blood of Jesus Christ cleanseth us from all sin". 1 John 1:9 is also my favorite verse in refuting confession to a human being (such as a priest) for the Bible says, "If we confess our sins, HE IS FAITHFUL AND JUST to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from ALL unrighteousness." Only Christ can do that.

Now, I do not believe in confessing your SINS one to another. I do believe, as James says, in confessing our faults one to another, but never SINS.
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Old 06-09-2008, 07:39 PM
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Well I learn something every day! I can't keep up with the way folks do NOT rightly divide the books of the Bible.

Quote:
We are NOT commanded to rightly divide "the Books of the Bible" - we are commanded to rightly divide "the word of truth".

Thank you brother, I'll keep that quote!
This book may have not been written TO us, but it certainly was FOR us.
  #7  
Old 06-10-2008, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Debau View Post
If he is not experiencing chastisement, he should be worried.
Shortly after this man officially terminated his service in the ministries he was involved in, he found himself in the hospital with a broken leg/arm from a car accident. It immediately seemed obvious that the Lord was trying to get his attention, but I've yet to see any repentance on his part.

In years past he seemed to be a solid Bible believer that asked tough questions that indicated serious personal Bible study. Today, I fear he has "left his first love" and is headed down a rough road.

Furthermore, he is not a novice when it comes to the Bible. He understands right division and the necessity for correct doctrinal application. His problem is that I John 1:9 is the only NT verse that plainly states confession of sin. He asks,
"If this is really for us today, then why doesn't the Apostle Paul come right out and say so?"

It's a little trickier than saying he's not rightly dividing, for he's not (that I know) a hyper, etc. When he first came with the question, the hyper flag went up in my head, but in talking with him, he's never pushed to that end. However, I feel he's full of sin, and God is not allowing his eyes of understanding to be enlightened.
  #8  
Old 06-10-2008, 10:29 AM
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I've enjoyed reading these posts, and I think George did a wonderful job of answering the question with many great Scriptures. The Bible was given to us for a reason, and so it is all important for us to study and learn. This young man is in a condition where, if he truly is saved, he is deceiving himself and trying to make himself feel good about living in sin. When dealing with people who have "backslidden" and have their minds made up about things, this verse comes to mind:

Quote:
Proverbs 27:22 Though thou shouldest bray a fool in a mortar among wheat with a pestle, yet will not his foolishness depart from him.
In other words, Brother, he's going to have to figure it out himself. [although there are many times I'd like to give the pestle a try!! ]

The big dilemna for Bro. Pbiwolski is that this man is somewhat of a leader, and he has the capacity to "lead others astray". I've seen this "backsliding" technique many times. The next thing you know he will find something more important than Wed. night, then Sunday night, and if the Lord doesn't get hold of him [and He will] he'll start missing some Sunday mornings every now and then. The reason why he is getting out of his ministries is because he'll have no "ties that bind him there" to keep him from missing when he "needs" to.

There are far too many people who profess this doctrine in many of our churches today. This hyper, ultra position is one reason why so many people grasp the holiness movement or John MacArthurs Lordship doctrine.

The Scripture George brought up and you can slice it any way you want, it is a universal law to the saved and unsaved [Dr. Ruckman preaches a wonderful sermon on this verse!!]

Quote:
Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
I am learning so much about dispensationalism, and I have a long way to go, but there is something I know to be true: we cannot confuse salvation and fellowship. Salvation is eternal AMEN!! Fellowship is day to day moment to moment--this is not a doctrine of works, this is truth, and there has to be ways to keep ourselves in fellowship with the Lord Jesus Christ and 1 John explains this issue quite well as we have already read and I republish these gems from the Lord:

Quote:
1 John 1:4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.
1 John 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
1 John 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
I don't care what dispensation this is, I want to walk in the light!! I want to have fellowship with him [not walk in darkness], and I want to have fellowship with God's people as well, and I'm thankful the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses me from my sin [past], and my confession of my sins [present] keeps me in fellowship with Him--AMEN!!

If that young man is saved, the peace and happiness in the Lord that he has had will pass, and he will find himself wondering where the "joy of his salvation" went, and he will miss that, and repent, we hope and pray. One thing for sure, he is on a slippery slope to punishment [sounds like he is already had some], and all we can do is pray that the Lord opens his eyes when he gets there.....God bless, Scott
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Old 06-10-2008, 03:42 PM
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Although the scriptures below applies to our relationship to fellow brethren it could also be applied to: "confessing your sins".

John 13:5 After that he poureth water into a bason, and began to wash the disciples' feet, and to wipe them with the towel wherewith he was girded.

John 13:6 Then cometh he to Simon Peter: and Peter saith unto him, Lord, dost thou wash my feet?

John 13:7 Jesus answered and said unto him, What I do thou knowest not now; but thou shalt know hereafter.

John 13:8 Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me.

John 13:9 Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head.

John 13:10 Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all.


When I was a child I remember in the summer when the days were long we had an outside bath house. We bathe early but were allowed to play and stay outside a little longer, when we entered the house for the night we washed our feet in a bucket of water provided for this purpose at the front porch. We were clean except for our feet.

This is the story of our life, even after we are washed in the blood, we dirty our feet in this world. Our feet just get dirtier and dirtier until we wash them, A very simple way to look at it. But I try not to confuse my life with dollar words or even fifty cent words.

Perhaps by now MY Lord has hardened your friend's heart and stiffened his neck. Perhaps the Only way God can deal with him is to have him "outside" of the fold so He can chastise him. Some times when:

2 Peter 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

It is oft in our deepest need that we remember God. He has been warned and admonished, and perhaps even rebuked by the church. Our duty now is to pray earnestly for him that the light of scripture may shed light on his decietful heart (all our hearts are decietful) and he may once more know the joy of His salvation.

In Christ Love,
Renee
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Old 06-10-2008, 03:50 PM
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Default Re: Should Christians Confess Their Sins?

Scott's Post #8 > Doctrine > Should Christians Confess Their Sins?

Aloha brother,

I appreciate your Post #8 and agree with you wholeheartedly.

I believe that every Christian has an "Achilles Heel" (poor example) or a "weakness" (at least one) that he or she must become aware of and guard against.

Some Christians deal with "carnal" problems ("Sins") all of their lives i.e. drunkeness, drugs, porn, adultery, fornication, idolatry, heresies, etc., etc., etc. I call this the "garbage" we pick up (mostly before we got saved - though sometimes after).

And then there's the "baggage" (mostly "faults" - which can lead to "sin") that we have accumulated (both before we got saved and after), and that has a lot to do with our culture (country, state, city, town, etc.); our home "environment (no training, wrong training, bad training); our "schooling" (public i.e. government, private, "Christian", etc.); and especially those "things" that appeal to our HEART - for where our heart is, there will be our "treasure" also.

I believe that Hyper or Ultra Dispensationalism appeals to those Christians that are the "Cerebral", "Academic", and "Intellectual" type (not necessarily "schooled"). Satan has a "device" for all of us and the easiest way for him to "side track" a saint is to exploit our weaknesses.

It's fairly easy to spot the "garbage" in our lives, but we may not be as readily aware of much of the "baggage" that we have accumulated along life's way, but I know that we all have some, and the only way for us to get rid of it is to study and pray and be willing to receive "instruction" from the Holy Spirit concerning both our faults and our sins.

Generally speaking, I have observed that, those Christians that were saved at an early age (before their "teens") don't seem to have accumulated as much "garbage" as those who were saved later in life (the exceptions always prove the rule). But they still have to contend with the "baggage", which often times they may not even be aware of.

Conversely, those Christians that have been saved later in life, often have to contend with both the "baggage" and the "garbage" they accumulated along the way.

Now God has provided a way for us (Christians) to lead a "victorious" life, but it entails turning away from ours sins and turning unto God and worshiping Him in SPIRIT and in TRUTH (and you can't have ONE without the OTHER). This is sometimes very difficult when one has grown accustomed (it's "their bag") to living in sin and thinking in the the way of the world (in the Western World - Humanism foremost).

How does one throw off 20 or 30 or 40 years of Humanistic thinking and reasoning?

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Psalms 119:11 Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.

There are many more verses but these will do. But that's not all (and this is where we King James Bible believers sometimes fall short). We must SET our "hearts" to both seek the Lord and His Truth. We must not neglect the God of Scripture in our pursuit of the "
Truth".

It is instructive to know that in the entire Bible there is only one man of whom God said: . . . . he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will. [Acts 13:22]. Could it possibly be that God gave this "testimony" about David because no other writer of the Bible spoke or wrote as much about God as David (Approximately 1,190 times out of 1066 verses)? Could it possibly be because no other writer of the Scriptures spoke or wrote as much about God's word as David (Approximately 342 times in 336 verses)? Could it be because no other writer of the Bible spoke or wrote as much about the "heart" of man as David (Approximately 130 times out of 126 verses). Or could it be that, in spite of David's terrible sins, that he displayed a love of God; a love of God's words; and an understanding of the "Biblical heart" that very few men before or after him have ever had?

Did you notice David's "balance"? He spoke and wrote about the God of Scripture over three times as much as he spoke about the Scriptures themselves. We have to be careful, although God has placed His word above His Name, we cannot do the same. We must worship the God of Scripture in Spirit and in Truth.

Should Christians (although eternally secure in Christ) confess our sins; repent of our sins; turn away from our sins; and turn unto God? Of course we should! Are we any "better" than the saints of old? Of course not! Religious pride is perhaps the most dangerous of all sins for a Christian.



Last edited by George; 06-10-2008 at 04:03 PM.
 

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