Bible Versions Questions and discussion about the Bible version issue.

 
 
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Old 02-04-2008, 09:15 PM
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Paladin54 Paladin54 is offline
 
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Default Bringing the King James to a high school.

Hail Brothers and Sisters in Christ,
I attend a private Christian high school where almost the entire student body believes that several translations can all be God's Word together, somehow, even though they contradict each other. I intend to start a movement for the King James Bible that several people I have talked to are excited about, which i will be leading. The only thing that would disrupt my task is that we have some "scholarly" people who disagree with me. Besides prayer, I request that you could help me answer their questions when they confront me.
Questions such as "The new translations are easier to read, otherwise I would read the King James Bible" and "Well, they tries to translate the meaning of the verse here, so we could understand it today".

I am also asking that you would organize here, in this thread, the answers to the most common anti-King James arguments you here in your own experiences. Please give me a lot of Scripture, as Scripture memorization is very easy for me. I will have to speak to the "scholarly" class as well as laymen, please keep that in mind.

Thank you very much, Godspeed and may God bless you all.
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Old 02-04-2008, 09:36 PM
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Diligent Diligent is offline
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It's admirable that you wish to plant seeds of faith in God's word around you.

There are already quite a few "frequently asked questions" handled here:
http://av1611.com/kjbp/faq.html

If you need help answering specific questions, you should certainly post them here. It's helpful to have something specific to answer though, rather than generalities.
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Old 02-04-2008, 09:45 PM
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Yes, I have read through the faq and am very grateful for all of the information there. Two questions that I did not see answered there, however, were the ones I originally posted.

1."The new translations are easier to read, otherwise I would read the King James Bible"

2. "Well, they tried to translate the meaning of the verse here, so it could apply to our understanding today."
  #4  
Old 02-04-2008, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin54 View Post
1."The new translations are easier to read, otherwise I would read the King James Bible"
The second half of the question is telling. It's essentially and admission that the KJB is more authoritative even to them. And it tells you that they've decided that "easier is better" and trumps purity.

There is no way to convince someone that the KJV isn't "harder" to understand. The entire complaint is nothing more than an excuse not to read it. Technically, the KJV is well below college level writing, so anyone in your college ought not to have a hard time with it. A really good book on this subject is Archaic Words and the Authorized Version.

I wonder if any of the literature professors in your college would approve of a modern "update" of Shakespeare's writings to make the "meaning" more understandable. If you look in the bookstores, there are plenty of commentaries on Shakespeare, but hardly anyone has dared to "update" his writings because they know so much is lost, and only a little reading is needed in order to understand them. And yet we have shelves upon shelves of Bible versions purporting to replace the KJV and be easier to understand. Odd that literature professors have more respect for Shakespeare than Bible professors have for the God's words.

I can tell you how this was turned around for me. I used the NIV and was happy to regurgitate the claim that it was easier to read than the KJV. Nobody got me to read the KJV by convincing me it wasn't hard to understand. I started reading the KJV because I discovered that the NIV deleted entire verses and changed God's word into lies and didn't want to base my faith on a book I couldn't trust. Then, and only then, was I able to push aside the notion that the KJV was hard to read. Once I accepted it as my final authority, the Holy Spirit opened up an entirely new world totally unknown to me before I started reading the KJV. Suddenly verses I though were difficult to understand had plain meanings.

So I found out the KJV is actually easier to understand.

It's non-colloquial language also has the benefit of being instantly venerated in the mind of a believer. The different language is easily identified as holy.

Quote:
2. "Well, they tried to translate the meaning of the verse here, so it could apply to our understanding today."
Our faith was once delivered unto the saints. You can't change it for the benefit of a "new generation" -- you must study and allow it to change you.

Again though this is an argument that can't be reasoned with unless the person to whom you are talking can accept that God's very words are pure, not merely the "concepts" behind them.

I would ask someone who claims that his translators translated the "meanings" of the words, rather than the words themselves, if they really trust those translators to understand exactly every single concept and "meaning" contained in Holy writ. If he trusts that his new version contains the "meanings" translated, then he trusts that the translators knew everything there is to know about every single thing in the Bible. Otherwise, something is lost.

I'll stick with a Bible that has God's words and let the Holy Spirit tell me what they mean.

Last edited by Diligent; 02-04-2008 at 11:03 PM. Reason: correct verse quote
  #5  
Old 02-04-2008, 10:26 PM
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Hello Paladin54. Godspeed you in your efforts for His word.
First let me urge you to keep reading and praying over God's word while you read. Praying for guidance and understanding.

Second, Read "The King James Bible Defended" by the late great textual scholar Edward F. Hills. But spend much more time in God's word. Take the KJV defense materials as a kind of a "hobby". Just something you do secondary to God's word and time with the Lord in prayer.

When you need it most, the Lord's words will come through you to those who have ears to hear. No other ears can respond until the Holy Spirit has dealt with them.

Third. What do you think of these for answers. Just starting points for your further development:

(1) The KJV is hard to read and understand just where the original Hebrew/Greek versions that the Lord first gave were hard to read and understand. Any faithful translation of a hard to read and understand passage, should itself be hard to read and understand. If its not, then the translator has stepped over from doing his job of translating to doing the preachers job of expounding it.
Recall that Peter said there were some hard things in Paul's letters that were hard to understand (2Pe 3:14, 15). So if you never read anything hard to understand that requires someone to explain it to you (Acts 8:30,31), you're not reading God's word as Peter had it.

(2) Again, that's the job of the preacher to expound to us. . . not the translator. Often in the newer versions they get updated every 4 years or so. You see total reversals in some passages from where the translator had changed his mind!!!! e.g. 1Thess 4:4 says "That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour". The 1978 version of the NIV "tries to tell you what God meant" and makes the vessel the man's own wife. The 1984 NIV changes their previous position and makes the vessel the man himself. They put this 1978 possibility into the footnotes of the 1984.

Besides what we have in the bible are the very words of God. Look to it and do a search for words. You will see time and again "thy words", "words whereby we must be saved" "every word of God is pure" "Thou wilt keep them forever". . . .

What are some other questions you want to deal with?

REMEMBER: First take care to keep your self on blessing ground by putting God's word (The Lord talking to you) and prayer (you talking to the Lord) first and foremost. t

Then these various defenses as a definite secondary position. That's the path to blessing brother!



(1)
  #6  
Old 02-04-2008, 10:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ok.book.guy View Post
Recall that Peter said there were some hard things in Paul's letters that were hard to understand (2Pe 3:14, 15). So if you never read anything hard to understand that requires someone to explain it to you (Acts 8:30,31), you're not reading God's word as Peter had it.
This is such an excellent point that I am tempted to delete my own reply because this one is so much better!

The point being that the language of the KJV is not what is hard to understand -- it's the very substance of Scripture that is difficult. What ok.book.guy says is very true. Even Peter acknowledged that Scripture was "hard to be understood." Peter didn't ask for a translator to update Paul's words for him.
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Old 02-04-2008, 10:35 PM
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Technically, the KJV is well below college level writing, so anyone in your college ought not to have a hard time with it.
My mistake, should say "high school."
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Old 02-04-2008, 10:57 PM
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Wow. Very strong arguments. Brandon, please keep your original post there, don't erase it.

On a slightly different topic, I, myself use the 1611, but members here say that there are several copyist errors and that using one for one's own study is counterproductive.
Can you explain this to me?
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Old 02-04-2008, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Paladin54 View Post
Wow. Very strong arguments. Brandon, please keep your original post there, don't erase it.

On a slightly different topic, I, myself use the 1611, but members here say that there are several copyist errors and that using one for one's own study is counterproductive.
Can you explain this to me?
The 1611 edition contained various typesetting errors that have been purified out over the years in subsequent editions. We refer to the AV of 1611 because that was when it was first published, but it is very rare that anyone uses a 1611 edition today. Since 1611 English has had its spelling and grammar standardized so our current KJV Bibles are much better suited for use.


If you have a 1611 edition, the first two verses of your Bible would read like this:
Genesis 1:1-2 In the beginning God created the Heauen, and the Earth. And the earth was without forme, and voyd, and darkenesse was vpon the face of the deepe: and the Spirit of God mooued vpon the face of the waters.
  #10  
Old 02-04-2008, 11:11 PM
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Default Hi Paladin54

Good for you, taking a stand for the Word Of God at school. It will be a very daunting thing to be in an environment where peer and "scholarly" pressure is going to be applied in order for you to conform with THEM.

My Daughter is taking the same stand at her school...here is what I told her;

2Co 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

A quick response to give for those asking the first of the questions you presented;
"The new translations are easier to read, otherwise I would read the King James Bible"

Response: The KJV is written in English, it is not a foreign language. If teachers and students put only a fraction of the effort into brushing up on THEIR OWN LANGUAGE as they do in teaching or learning Spanish, French or Japanese while at school, they would very quickly be able to read the Bible comfortably.

An example to give as to why this is important is as follows.... The new version use of "you" when Jesus is talking to Nicodemus in john 3:7 leaves readers thinking that Jesus was talking only to Nicodemus, and reduces the meaning to an irrelevant 2000 year old comment, wheras the KJV recording of Gods Word with its use of "thee", jesus referring to Nicodemus personally, and "ye", Jesus using a plural and thereby referring to everyone, including you and me 2000 years after the conversation.

Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Getting people to study the English language as used in the KJV makes the second objection irrelevant.

2Ti 2:15 Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.


Hope this helps.
 

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