Doctrine Discussion about matters of the faith.

View Poll Results: should Christians confess their sins?
yes 18 78.26%
yes
18 78.26%
no 2 8.70%
no
2 8.70%
other please comment 3 13.04%
other please comment
3 13.04%
Voters: 23. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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  #21  
Old 06-12-2009, 04:03 AM
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chette777 chette777 is offline
 
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Richard you gave a good answer.

Thanks to everyone I think it shows we have been taught that after salvation one still needs to maintain a right relationship so after one sins (even though all are forgiven) we should examine our selves if we need acknowledge to God we are weak sinner continually in need of his grace. being sorry and repenting is a way of maintaining our relationship with God and our Lord.

Eph 4 tells about grieving the Holy Ghost in the context it is about sinfulness still coming from our lives, mouths and hearts, and too forgive one another so there is sin going on between body members. so If we grieve how do we ungrieve?

1 Thess 5 tells us, Quench not the Holy Ghost, the context also we see a gift being mentioned so this would be among body members.

so connect that to 1Cor 11 :28-31 and the context from 17 on and we can see that searching and confessing to God and to others if necessary is an approved way of keeping right with God and our Body of Christ Members.
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  #22  
Old 06-12-2009, 08:03 AM
Bro. Parrish
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Originally Posted by chette777 View Post
Richard you gave a good answer.

Thanks to everyone I think it shows we have been taught that after salvation one still needs to maintain a right relationship so after one sins (even though all are forgiven) we should examine our selves if we need acknowledge to God we are weak sinner continually in need of his grace. being sorry and repenting is a way of maintaining our relationship with God and our Lord.
Hmmm, well "relationship" is not really the best word brother.
I used to teach this in our Bible Doctrines class, there is a big difference between RELATIONSHIP and FELLOWSHIP.

Our RELATIONSHIP with God is that of his adopted children, whereby we cry "Abba" or Father. We have been adopted into God's family (Romans 8:15) and this is wonderful news! This relationship cannot be shaken or changed, it is not based on works or any "maintenance" on our part. (Eph. 2:8-9) It is based on faith only and receiving Christ.

"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name" I John 1:12

The reason this is important is because of the eternal security of the believer. Here is a weak but simple illustration...

When I was a kid, I used to get mud on my shoes a lot. My father used to tell me over and over to take off my shoes but I was always running in the house with muddy shoes on and making a mess. No matter how many times I tracked up my father's carpet as a child, my father never kicked me out or made me leave the family. Sometimes he became grieved about my total disregard for his instructions, and sometimes I got angry at him and his rules. I may have been chastized for that behavior, I may have lost my FELLOWSHIP, but I never lost my RELATIONSHIP. I was still in my father's family, and I stayed in his house. He loved me and remained my father and I remained his son.

"If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." I John 1:6-7

So I would agree with you that searching and confessing to God is important, and the reason is for our proper FELLOWSHIP with God. (I John 1:9)

Chette, I think your poll was very good, and I salute you for it.
I just want to make sure the readers understand what we are talking about.
God bless...
  #23  
Old 06-12-2009, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by chette777 View Post
I would like to see what you all think about this please take poll and give a response. if we sin and seeing our sins are forgiven should we confess them or not?
Based on the poll question, I answered OTHER. Here’s why.

NO. I do not confess my sins as a believer based on 1 John 1:9. In other words, as a born again believer who is washed in the blood of Jesus (once and for all) from all sin and all unrighteousness, I am not required to confess my sins because GOD IS FAITHFUL to “to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” It is not conditional to my faithfulness.

Forgiveness and cleansing is indeed contingent on confession but I believe verse 9 is written specifically to all who are lost, in darkness, and have no fellowship with God the Father through Christ Jesus. The Gospel we believe “For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;” (1 Corinthians 15:3) identifies us as a sinner and we must “confess” and agree with God in order to be forgiven of our sins and cleansed from all unrighteousness. For “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us” (1 John 1:8).

AS A BELIEVER WHO IS IN CHRIST ongoing forgiveness of sins and cleansing from all unrighteousness is not a result of our confession of sins. Forgiveness and cleansing is always at work because it the result of the efficacy and power of Christ’s shed blood. We do not reactivate the power of His blood every time we confess a sin. His blood is always cleansing and washing me.
1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
Consider this. If the forgiveness of our sin and cleansing from all unrighteousness were conditional to our confessing sin then we are in a constant state of darkness and broken fellowship with God because if we are being completely honest even my righteousnesses are as filthy rags. We should all know how utterly righteous, holy, perfect, and sinless God is and that my condition in Christ has made me the righteousness of God.

I don't believe the scripture is saying to the believer, "If you confess your sins HE WILL FORGIVE AND CLEANSE YOU BUT IF YOU MISS CONFESSING A SIN DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT BECAUSE HIS BLOOD KEEPS WASHING YOU ANYWAY. DON'T WORRY, HE TAKE YOU BACK OUT OF DARKNESS AND PUTS YOU BACK IN THE LIGHT. AND OH YEAH, THE FELLOWSHIP THING, HE WILL ALSO PUT YOU BACK IN FELLOWSHIP IF YOU MISS CONFESSING ONE."

Concerning the first chapter of 1 John, I believe John gives a clear description of the saved person who is in the light (because God who is LIGHT and the LIGHT of the world, Jesus, is in him) and clear description of the lost person who is in darkness and has no fellowship with God. There is fellowship that we have with one another and there is fellowship with God. My fellowship with man can be broken and must be restored but my fellowship with God is never broken. I believe “fellowship” with God is based solely on our vital union through Christ Jesus, not our pious behavior or continued confession of every single sinful thought, sinful word, sinful deed, sinful attitude or sinful disposition.

Think about God, brethren, and who He is. Do you actually believe you’re fellowship with Him is conditional to confessing a sin? Do you actually believe you are all "confessed up" since the moment you were saved? “Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool” (Isaiah 1:18). I have fellowship with the Heavenly Father only because I am in Christ and am now an adopted SON.
Colossians 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
YES. I believe we should confess, admit, acknowledge, and say “Lord that thought was sinful. Please help me to bring every thought captive to Christ and help me to think on things that are true, honest, just, pure, lovely, and full of virtue. I praise you Lord Jesus for the cleansing power of thy blood and the forgiveness of my sins.”

There are many things we are admonished in scripture to do. Put off, put on, put away, flee, yield, not yield, mortify the deeds of the flesh, grieve not, quench not, examine, cleanse ourselves, reckon, abstain, sin not, stop lying, stop stealing, be kind, have charity, forgive one another, and resist to name just a few.

All of this Biblical action is repentance, not confession. Of course I confess to God when I sin. I ADMIT IT. But not according to 1 John 1:9. I do it because there is Biblical precedence to do so and because I love my Father and will not abuse His grace. Will grace abound if I do not confess my sin? Will grace abound even if I continue to sin now that I’m saved? ABSOLUTELY. Chastisement, correction, scourging, rebuke, and reproof is a whole other doctrine. Stay usable, be like CHRIST.

Is GRACE a divine permission slip to go out and sin and have a flagrant attitude toward sin? Should we continue in sin that grace may abound? God forbid. ABSOLUTELY NOT. But personally, I no longer confess my sins for the sole purpose of being forgiven of sins and in order to be cleansed from all unrighteousness when I already am.

I glory in what JESUS CHRIST has accomplished for me in His death for my sins, burial, resurrection, ascension, and seating above all principalities, power, dominion, and might. I rejoice in the fact that Jesus has destroyed the works of the devil. I rest in the fact that His "seed" remains in me and I am the child of God in Christ and therefore I am always justified, righteous, forgiven, sanctified, redeemed, and reconciled. IT IS FINISHED.
  #24  
Old 06-12-2009, 02:09 PM
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pbiwolski pbiwolski is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Forrest View Post
...but I believe verse 9 is written specifically to all who are lost, in darkness, and have no fellowship with God the Father through Christ Jesus.
Well then the words we and us would have to be wrong. (See 2:19 - they)

The issue is easier than you're making it out to be. There is a doctrinal statement about forgiveness of sins found in 2:12
I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.
There's your position in Christ doctrinally. Nobody has trouble with that.

1:9 (and context) is a practical statement about these sins. Practical as is your "practice" - day to day. This matches the context of "fellowship" (previously mentioned in thread) throughout the chapter. Notice the use of the word "walk" throughout these verses as well.

I started a thread some time ago about a guy in my church that got on this kick.
http://av1611.com/forums/showthread....ess+their+sins
  #25  
Old 06-12-2009, 02:54 PM
Bro. Parrish
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Forrest, 1 John 1:7-9 has always been a tough passage for Christians and there are good men on different sides of the interpretation.

I think if you cross reference 1 John with Ephesians 5 it may help you... the context in both of these passages is believers WALKING IN THE LIGHT, and FELLOWSHIP of the believer...

check out this passage in Ephesians 5...

6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.

8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord:
walk as children of light:


Now you see that thing right there about walking as children of light? If God's children cannot walk in darkness, then why in the world would the Bible instruct us to walk as children of light? Keep reading...

9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth; )

10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.

11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.


Now we see that thing about FELLOWSHIP again, and please notice the Christian can have FELLOWSHIP not only with God but also with the works of DARKNESS. WE have a choice every day of our lives who we will choose to have fellowship with. This theme fits perfectly with what John wrote in our KJV in 1 John right here...

6 "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


I honestly think the reason Christians get hung up here is because they confuse the POSITIONAL forgiveness and cleansing (based on grace) with the PRACTICAL side of daily fellowship with our Lord (as it relates to our joy). There is a beautiful verse that sits right in the middle of 1 John 1 that is often overlooked, but I think it holds the key to the entire passage. WHY is John writing this? Here's your answer...

"And these things write we unto you,
that your joy may be full." 1 John 1:4
  #26  
Old 06-12-2009, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbiwolski View Post
Well then the words we and us would have to be wrong. (See 2:19 - they)

The issue is easier than you're making it out to be. There is a doctrinal statement about forgiveness of sins found in 2:12
I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.
There's your position in Christ doctrinally. Nobody has trouble with that.

1:9 (and context) is a practical statement about these sins. Practical as is your "practice" - day to day. This matches the context of "fellowship" (previously mentioned in thread) throughout the chapter. Notice the use of the word "walk" throughout these verses as well.

I started a thread some time ago about a guy in my church that got on this kick.
http://av1611.com/forums/showthread....ess+their+sins
1 John 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
Who is the we in verse 1? Was it John and the Apostles? Surely others, at least one person, reading this letter heard, saw, and looked upon the Word of life.

It's more clear as we read this verse. (By the way, for clarification, I'm not just using the word "we" meaning you and I pbiwolski, I include all who read my comment here, saved or lost).
1 John 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
So who is "ye" in verse 3 referring to? Would that be both the saved and lost? The saved only? Or possibly the lost only?

John already has fellowship with God and is in the light just as or in the same manner God is in the light. He believes in the person he is proclaiming and that is the only reason he is in the light as God is in the light. Others reading the letter also walk in the light as HE is in the light and have fellowship with the Father and His Son. And John talks to them in verse 7. "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin" (1 John 1:7).

But to all reading who have yet to believe, who are walking in darkness and have no fellowship with God, he provides the solution in verse 9.

In my understanding, in context he is writing to a mixed crowd just like we (meaning you, pbiwolski, and I, Forrest) are in a mixed crowd.

He cleanseth me from ALL sin and it is not conditional to my confessing all sin since I am in Christ. His blood never stops cleansing me from all sin.

From the moment you (pbiwolski) first received Christ have you confessed every single sin? If not, are you still forgiven? Are you cleansed from all unrighteousness? Are you still in fellowship with the Father and His Son? Does the blood of Christ cleanseth you from all sin or not?

If confessing of your sins (no exception, don't miss one) as a believer is required to be forgiven of your sins and cleansed from all unrighteousness are you forgiven and are you clean?
  #27  
Old 06-12-2009, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bro. Parrish View Post
Forrest, 1 John 1:7-9 has always been a tough passage for Christians and there are good men on different sides of the interpretation.

I think if you cross reference 1 John with Ephesians 5 it may help you... the context in both of these passages is believers WALKING IN THE LIGHT, and FELLOWSHIP of the believer...

check out this passage in Ephesians 5...

6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.

8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord:
walk as children of light:


Now you see that thing right there about walking as children of light? If God's children cannot walk in darkness, then why in the world would the Bible instruct us to walk as children of light? Keep reading...

9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth; )

10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.

11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.


Now we see that thing about FELLOWSHIP again, and please notice the Christian can have FELLOWSHIP not only with God but also with the works of DARKNESS. WE have a choice every day of our lives who we will choose to have fellowship with. This theme fits perfectly with what John wrote in our KJV in 1 John right here...

6 "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


I honestly think the reason Christians get hung up here is because they confuse the POSITIONAL forgiveness and cleansing (based on grace) with the PRACTICAL side of daily fellowship with our Lord (as it relates to our joy). There is a beautiful verse that sits right in the middle of 1 John 1 that is often overlooked, but I think it holds the key to the entire passage. WHY is John writing this? Here's your answer...

"And these things write we unto you,
that your joy may be full." 1 John 1:4
Brother Parrish. I need to rest. The MS thing. But I will give my understanding.
  #28  
Old 06-12-2009, 03:36 PM
Bro. Parrish
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Forrest, every time you mention the MS it makes me think of one of my dearest friends in the Lord, who also suffers from this and he is like you a great student of the Bible, he ran a Bible Doctrines correspondence program for prisoners for many years. God bless...
  #29  
Old 06-12-2009, 04:16 PM
Winman Winman is offline
 
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I vote yes, and completely agree with Bro Parrish's post #25.
  #30  
Old 06-12-2009, 05:41 PM
Bro. Parrish
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Originally Posted by Forrest View Post
Of course I confess to God when I sin. I ADMIT IT. But not according to 1 John 1:9. I do it because there is Biblical precedence to do so and because I love my Father and will not abuse His grace.
Forrest, that is interesting how you are in essence agreeing with us on the idea of confession of sin to God, but you are not seeing it in 1 John 1. So, what exactly is the Biblical precedence you are basing your confession on?
 

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