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  #131  
Old 04-14-2008, 09:44 AM
jerry
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Up until the tower of Babel, the whole world knew of God - and there were no Jews until Abraham (that means everyone that was saved prior to that time were Gentiles - in the OT we see many Gentiles getting saved, including Ruth, Nebuchadnezzar, the whole city of Nineveh).

There are various places in the Bible where God teaches if someone searches for Him, He will reveal Himself - ie. He has obligated Himself to bring them the Gospel, so it does not matter their background. Their conscience and creation reveals there is a God/Creator - and if they truly search for Him He will reveal Himself to them.
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  #132  
Old 04-14-2008, 03:31 PM
look3467
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Originally Posted by jerry View Post
Up until the tower of Babel, the whole world knew of God - and there were no Jews until Abraham (that means everyone that was saved prior to that time were Gentiles - in the OT we see many Gentiles getting saved, including Ruth, Nebuchadnezzar, the whole city of Nineveh).

There are various places in the Bible where God teaches if someone searches for Him, He will reveal Himself - ie. He has obligated Himself to bring them the Gospel, so it does not matter their background. Their conscience and creation reveals there is a God/Creator - and if they truly search for Him He will reveal Himself to them.
Jerry, May I point out something to you? The whole purpose of the coming of Jesus was to save that which was lost.

Now, in order to do that, all had to be lost, otherwise, why come if mankind could save self?

Peace>>>AJ
  #133  
Old 04-14-2008, 04:53 PM
jerry
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Who said anything about mankind saving themselves? The Bible teaches that the Holy Spirit works upon the conscience of the lost to convict them of their sins and their need for a Saviour - then opens up their understanding to the Gospel when they are presented with it.

When lost pagans in Africa are convicted that the idols they have created are false, and they realize through the wonder of creation that there is in fact a Creator, through the work of their conscience realize they have sinned against Him, and cry out to Him to reveal Himself to them, He has obligated Himself to do so. This is stated in various places in the Bible. I can try to locate those verses later, if needed.

Acts 17:24-27 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things; And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:

Acts 17:30-31 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
  #134  
Old 04-14-2008, 08:37 PM
JerryW JerryW is offline
 
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Originally Posted by jerry View Post
Who said anything about mankind saving themselves? The Bible teaches that the Holy Spirit works upon the conscience of the lost to convict them of their sins and their need for a Saviour - then opens up their understanding to the Gospel when they are presented with it.

When lost pagans in Africa are convicted that the idols they have created are false, and they realize through the wonder of creation that there is in fact a Creator, through the work of their conscience realize they have sinned against Him, and cry out to Him to reveal Himself to them, He has obligated Himself to do so. This is stated in various places in the Bible. I can try to locate those verses later, if needed.

Acts 17:24-27 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things; And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:

Acts 17:30-31 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
Jerry, The way you are using these verses seems to suggest that you believe a man does not have to hear the gospel message to be saved. Do you realize that this contradicts what Paul says in Rom 10;14. Also Rom 1:16 says the Gospel is the power of God UNTO salvation. I think I pointed these things out in a prior post but you did not respond to these particular verses. Got one more question for you? IF it is true that we do not have to hear the gospel in order to be saved would it not be better if we sent all the missionaries home and used that money to feed the many starving souls around the world?
  #135  
Old 04-14-2008, 09:08 PM
jerry
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Feel free to ask for clarification, but don't read into what someone is not saying. I very much believe that hearing and believing the Gospel is essential for salvation. My point is that God is not limited to someone's background or access to the Bible, etc. to get them saved. If they are sincerely searching for Him, He will bring the truth to them.

Are we going to go around in endless circles here? Look in the Bible for passages with the words "search" or "seek" in them. You are bound to find some of the ones I am referring to.

Romans 1:19-20 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Romans 2:14-16 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;) In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

Romans 3:19-26 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Romans 10:12-20 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world. But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you. But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.

Isaiah 65:1 I am sought of them that asked not for me; I am found of them that sought me not: I said, Behold me, behold me, unto a nation that was not called by my name.
  #136  
Old 04-14-2008, 09:08 PM
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To save some from the gates of hell, which is the suffering and pain of this existence without God in the heart.

Peace>>>AJ
I've had more pain and suffering since I got saved than before!
 

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