Bible Versions Questions and discussion about the Bible version issue.

 
 
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Old 04-30-2009, 12:25 AM
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Kiwi Christian Kiwi Christian is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tandi View Post
This reminds me of Paul's words of rebuke to those who would say, "I am of Paul..." )1 Cor. 1:12

Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? (vs. 13).

This dispensationalism/hyperdispensationalism doctrine sounds very strange to those of us not indoctrinated into it. Some of us just read our Bibles as the straightforward Word of God.
That is exactly the response I would expect from someone who finds dispensationalism "strange", you don't understand it so you automatically think that those who subscribe to it are in error, or have been brainwashed (indoctrinated) into believing it. I was under a pastor once who thought that, sadly he is no longer in the ministry.

Paul also said "Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ" in 1 Corinthians 11:1, and he said "Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things" in 2 Timothy 2:7, and of course he said "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth" in 2 Timothy 2:15.

Dispensationalism is simply a system of understanding how to "righty divide" the Bible. There are other systems, but none are as thorough IMO.
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  #22  
Old 04-30-2009, 12:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tandi View Post
This reminds me of Paul's words of rebuke to those who would say, "I am of Paul..." )1 Cor. 1:12

Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? (vs. 13).

This dispensationalism/hyperdispensationalism doctrine sounds very strange to those of us not indoctrinated into it. Some of us just read our Bibles as the straightforward Word of God.

Tony even rejects water baptism??

Shalom,

Tandi
Tandi, sister, I am not rebuking either, but I need to point out something, I need to point out the dangers of quoting half a verse, or part of one, it can be used to attack the preservation of the Scriptures, or the Deity of Christ, or to say that Paul is not the apostle for today. We can read the Bible "straightforward" and it will take us straight forward into hell, if we don;t believe the right gospel or follow the right Jesus Christ:

Nu 23:19 God is not a man,...

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

The Jehovah's Witnesses build a Unitarian theology of taking half-verses and wrested Scripture and applying them in a context not meant to be conveyed. Above is an argument against the Deity of Christ, if we ignore the context and many other verses that do teach the Deity of Christ.

As in the thread discussing the faith "of" Christ versus the corrupt translation, faith "in" Christ that is put in the place of where the KJV states the faith "of" Christ, I will demonstrate why I am a follower of Paul and not Peter, James, John, or anyone else, as Paul was a follower of Christ as he says. I am a follower of Paul, I am not of Paul:

1Co 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.
12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

"...of Christ"? I thought we ALL were "...of Christ"?

Ro 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

We are "of Christ" but not under Peter, James, and John, but followers of Paul as he was a follower of Christ as the apostle to the Gentiles.


Where was Christ a minister of the circumcision? That's easy: Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Many millions fo people are devout in their devotion to Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John being Church Doctrine for today, and according to the Scriptures are very devoutly wrong. God has a serious problem with this belief, as I will demonstrate the error in not rightly dividing the word:

Mt 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

1Co 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

Ga 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

Ga 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Paul called the person(s) in the Corinthian church who doubted the resurrection a fool, and the Galatians for letting themselves be put back under the law by false teachers. Question:

Is the Apostle Paul in hell?

I Cor. 4:6 And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.

In the church today is found nearly permeated through it this cult of personality: I am of Luther. I am of John Gill. I am of Wesley. I am of CI Scofield. I am of Larken. I am of John R. Rice. I am of Charles Stanley. I am of John MacArthur. I am of Peter Ruckman. I am of Tony Bones.

Paul found the church riddled with people who were following a cult of personality, and also in mentioning Christ the dangers of not rightly dividing the Scriptures. When I read the "red letters" in the Four Gospels I am reading the words of Christ in His ministry to the circumcision. When I am reading Paul I am reading the words of Jesus Christ to me, today, given to Paul by Jesus Christ personally through direct, personal revelation:

I Cor. 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

1Co 4:16 Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.

1Co 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

Ro 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

1Ti 2:7 Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.

2Ti 1:11 Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.

2Co 11:5 For I suppose I was not a whit behind the very chiefest apostles.

Ga 2:9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

1Co 14:6 Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?

Ga 2:2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain.

1Co 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

Eph 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

Paul did not die for me, Apollos did not ascend to the right hand of the Father and seat me in heavenly places. By the same token, I do not follow the ministry of Christ to Israel nor am I doctrinally bound to the Four Gospels.

Ro 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

Matthew 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

I am not "of" Paul as a cultic figure nor as my god, but I am a "follower" of Paul unto death.

Tandi, we have had, and I am sure over the existence of this forum, people come here to recruit for their heresy or cult. We had a sabbath keeper post a few messages and when he saw he was in the presence of Scriptural pros, he has faded away. We had another man, we think, try to recruit for some Pre-Adamic Race Of Humans cult and when it was apparent he was teaching a heresy he was banned. I do not practice water baptism nor the "Lord's Supper, I do not believe in tongues signs and wonders as being for this age, I also believe among us who "follow" Paul that we must let him be a wise masterbuilder and rightly divide not only the whole Scripture but Paul himself. I believe we have a ministry of reconciliation and not a "great commission" of Matthew 28. These are my differences with the people in this forum, and I do not make a point of rubbing those beliefs in. That said, I will defer my exposition on water baptism until Brother Tim starts the thread dealing with that topic. I came to this forum for friendship and fellowship, to teach and be taught, not to teach "hyperdispensationalism". Unless I am led to comment or asked to.

I hope this clears up the question of the apostle we follow for this age and that pretty well closes the case sister. Study these Scriptures and do it for you, not me or anyone else..

Grace and peace to you.

Tony
 

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