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  #141  
Old 05-05-2008, 10:53 AM
jerry
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You would have to prove that Peter was referring to the Tribulation, rather than now in the church age.

In regards to Peter, we are probably saying the same thing:

What Peter is stating is that the outcome - the end result - of their faith is the salvation of their souls - not that they won't be saved until the end.

There are no Bible passages that teach that anyone has to wait to be saved spiritually.
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  #142  
Old 05-06-2008, 01:30 AM
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1 Peter 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;


Is SOUL physical?

Comparing Peter's statement above with Paul's:

"For by grace ARE ye SAVED through faith..."
(Eph. 2:8,9)

According to Paul, we are SAVED NOW through FAITH. Salvation begins since we are SAVED. But Peter says, "salvation of your souls" is received at THE END.

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

"What Peter is stating is that the outcome - the end result - of their faith is the salvation of their souls - not that they won't be saved until the end." This statement contradicts itself.

Peter DID SAY the END (future) of THEIR faith (men's faith) is SALVATION of their SOULS. That's why they have to keep believing until they are saved.
But under grace, I am NOT saved by MY faith. I am SAVED (past tense) by the FAITH OF JESUS CHRIST. According to Paul, salvation by the faith of Jesus Christ is the BEGINNING of my faith; but for Peter, salvation is the END of THEIR (human) faith.

According to Paul, "GRACE HATH APPEARED unto all men." (Tit.2:11) But Peter says, grace "SHOULD COME" and "IS TO BE BROUGHT unto you AT THE REVELATION OF JESUS CHRIST".

Paul says, we're waiting for the RAPTURE of the church; Peter says the "holy nation" is waiting for the REVELATION of Jesus Christ.

Question:
1. Is Peter talking about physical salvation when he said "salvation of your souls"? Is soul physical?
2. Is "our faith" the same as "the faith of Christ"? Are Church Age saints saved by "their faith" or by the "faith of Christ"?
3. Is salvation the RESULT of our faith or the FOUNDATION of our faith?
4. Has grace APPEARED to all men, or is it TO BE BROUGHT at the revelation of Jesus Christ for those who hoped for it to the END?

We cannot make "salvation of souls" a physical salvation. We don't have to wrest Scripture and make everything fit Paul's epistles, just as others twist Paul's epistles and make them fit "works" passages?

Unless one believes Revelation and Rapture are the same, people waiting for the revelation of Jesus Christ have to be in the Tribulation Period.
  #143  
Old 05-07-2008, 04:41 PM
jerry
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I only believe in one kind of salvation - the kind that the Bible teaches. Salvation by grace through faith in Christ's finished work on the cross.

1. Is Peter talking about physical salvation when he said "salvation of your souls"? Is soul physical?

No - he is obviously referring to spiritual salvation.

2. Is "our faith" the same as "the faith of Christ"? Are Church Age saints saved by "their faith" or by the "faith of Christ"?

I was saved by my faith in the finished work of Christ. I don't know how you were saved. I am not a Calvinist, so do not agree with your interpretation of "the faith of Christ."

3. Is salvation the RESULT of our faith or the FOUNDATION of our faith?

The result.

4. Has grace APPEARED to all men, or is it TO BE BROUGHT at the revelation of Jesus Christ for those who hoped for it to the END?

Different contexts in view. Grace has appeared to all men - and is still appearing. There are certain aspects of our salvation that await the return of Christ - such as the redemption of our body.

Romans 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
  #144  
Old 05-07-2008, 06:37 PM
look3467
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Can we loose our salvation? That's the OP question.

Which of these methods would you choose to come to Christ, by fear or by love?

If by fear, than hell is the motive that drives you to Christ!
If love, than appreciation, forgiveness drives you to Christ.

Now, to satisfy the question "can one loose our salvation?

The answer is no! Why? Because salvation was not in our works but Gods.

God did the salvation thing for us, all we have to do is receive it.

That is why Paul says:
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

What does that mean? It means that the gift is there to be received, once received, one can not loose it.

The giver of the gift paid the price for your death sentence, and if a death sentence was paid for, does it matter who or what you are?

Now, if you come to Jesus by understanding and faith, salvation is yours as a gift, as like a new born babe, must struggle to grow up in that experience to wards maturity.

There is no escape for any soul, they all will bow at the knees of Jesus and will recognize Him for who He really is and be saved.

For there is no other way:Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

That does not mean that we must require everyone to believe as we do about Jesus being the only way, for God does know that there are other religions who have no clue as to the divinity of Jesus.

What we can do is love as Jesus loved regardless of who it is that we are speaking to.
For the genuine show of love touches the heart of the recipient and may be persuaded to believe as you do.

The energy, the devotion, the dedication to Jesus should be out of love and not fear.

Peace>>>AJ

All good attempts to be religious are futile unless love is the basis for your belief.




Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.



  #145  
Old 05-08-2008, 08:34 PM
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If by fear, than hell is the motive that drives you to Christ!
If love, than appreciation, forgiveness drives you to Christ.

You said this above. Sorry to implore, but it sounds like you are saying that one of them is the wrong way?

I came to Christ out of fear. Far out, I don't want to go to hell. But his forgiveness drives me to love him more. When I came to Christ (my memories of it are vague. I was attending an anglican church at the time, and they aren't big on spiritual birthdays or anything), I came knowing I was a sinner, and my judgment would end in hell. I accepted the forgiveness in Jesus and was made a saint. (I actually was reading a Jack Chick Tract, which I read more of after I got saved, and then left the anglican church and found a KJ Bible believing church)
  #146  
Old 05-08-2008, 09:22 PM
look3467
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke View Post
If by fear, than hell is the motive that drives you to Christ!
If love, than appreciation, forgiveness drives you to Christ.

You said this above. Sorry to implore, but it sounds like you are saying that one of them is the wrong way?

I came to Christ out of fear. Far out, I don't want to go to hell. But his forgiveness drives me to love him more. When I came to Christ (my memories of it are vague. I was attending an Anglican church at the time, and they aren't big on spiritual birthdays or anything), I came knowing I was a sinner, and my judgment would end in hell. I accepted the forgiveness in Jesus and was made a saint. (I actually was reading a Jack Chick Tract, which I read more of after I got saved, and then left the Anglican church and found a KJ Bible believing church)
Yes, many are led to Christ via the fear of hell, that is undeniable. But let me say this, a question mark; in many cases a question mark marks the relationship.
Let me explain; There may be doubts as to the surety of one's salvation when one's life has not been what it ought to be verses, the knowing and assurance of salvation regardless of what one is.

In many cases I've heard preachers, and some folks make statements about a person who claimed to be saved commit some kind of sin not consistent with being saved as like this "Perhaps that person never really received Christ and was never really saved"?

The question mark?

Let's say one came to Christ out of fear of hell, but later on as that person matured spiritually, to the point where perfect love casted out all fear, then that person no longer fears a hell, for the person very well knows and is assured of its salvation without a doubt.

That is the stage where love becomes the motive, and fear no longer abides.

When one can come to Christ, regardless of the motive, and give of one self to Him out of love then love rules and surety of salvation is achieved.

Peace>>>AJ
  #147  
Old 05-08-2008, 09:41 PM
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I often doubt my salvation based on past experiences. Pretty much everyone I care about knows about this so I have no problems sharing it, but after being saved 8 years ago (2000 I think), it was a very slow road for me. I was drinking until about 2003, and in 2003 I even became a fornicator (dropped drinking, another sin came in). That all stopped in the middle of 2004. I have only repented of this sin recently. (Don't get me wrong, I felt guilty the whole time I was in sin, but, I only felt a deep contrition lately, calling me to repent of the wickedness I was involved in as a Christian. I even asked Christ to be my saviour again, in the event that I was not saved, but all through those years, I did believe that Jesus Christ was my sin bearer).

I try to bear in mind David, who was an adulterer & fornicator, and unrepentent of the fact for over a year until confronted with God's truth under Nathaniel. It took me several years to realise what damage I had done to my walk with God, and I began to pray earnestly that He would break me over it. And did He break me alright!

I have no idea when I got saved. I know my initial motivation was fear of hell. Maybe I only got saved after my recent repentance of sin. I don't believe a person must ""Repent of their sins" to be saved, but a backslidden Christian must repent of and forsake their sin to be restored to fellowship with God.
  #148  
Old 05-08-2008, 10:06 PM
look3467
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke View Post
I often doubt my salvation based on past experiences. Pretty much everyone I care about knows about this so I have no problems sharing it, but after being saved 8 years ago (2000 I think), it was a very slow road for me. I was drinking until about 2003, and in 2003 I even became a fornicator (dropped drinking, another sin came in). That all stopped in the middle of 2004. I have only repented of this sin recently. (Don't get me wrong, I felt guilty the whole time I was in sin, but, I only felt a deep contrition lately, calling me to repent of the wickedness I was involved in as a Christian. I even asked Christ to be my Saviour again, in the event that I was not saved, but all through those years, I did believe that Jesus Christ was my sin bearer).

I try to bear in mind David, who was an adulterer & fornicator, and unrepentant of the fact for over a year until confronted with God's truth under Nathaniel. It took me several years to realize what damage I had done to my walk with God, and I began to pray earnestly that He would break me over it. And did He break me alright!

I have no idea when I got saved. I know my initial motivation was fear of hell. Maybe I only got saved after my recent repentance of sin. I don't believe a person must ""Repent of their sins" to be saved, but a backslidden Christian must repent of and forsake their sin to be restored to fellowship with God.
Your situation is not something new, for in my life time I have witnessed many such occurrences of which I felt sorry for those individuals.

Listen Luke, God gives us strength to ward off the temptations of the flesh if we so desire it.

He has conquered all those temptations in Jesus crucified for us. Meaning that we are not beholden-ed to any temptation given the choice not to for Jesus gives us the strength to overcome it.

That is a struggle we all have and without Christ, we are doomed to suffer.

God loves you and fully understands the predicament you are in, but you must make a serious attempt to "want" to please Him at the cost of your desires.

That "want" is defined as love to wards God, and not as fear to wards hell.

Fear is temporary here while you live, but love lives on passed this point of life.
Therefore, having assurance of your salvation based on your love for God, you grow in His strength to wards maturity of that of the stature of Christ.

You can then say,"what power is there that can prevent me from loving my God?"
None whatsoever!

Listen, one time again, when Jesus was invited into your heart, you and Jesus were as babes. Both your flesh and your spirit had to grow together as like children, experiencing the pitfalls of life, the guidance of our parents and the words of God in print.

You stubble and sometimes fall, but never are you not His child, for He is with you every step of the way until you have reached a stage of maturity of understanding, wisdom and knowledge.

Along the way, you will meet similar folks and you maybe of great help in their progress to wards that goal to.

Hope that helps?

Peace>>>AJ
  #149  
Old 05-09-2008, 01:58 AM
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That was encouraging thankyou, although I think you have misread me.

The sin of the flesh has been mortified. I am not involved in it anymore. I am still a sinner, and will be until the day I day, but God calls me a saint.
  #150  
Old 05-09-2008, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke View Post
That was encouraging thank you, although I think you have misread me.

The sin of the flesh has been mortified. I am not involved in it anymore. I am still a sinner, and will be until the day I day, but God calls me a saint.
True, the sin that kept you out of heaven, but still you are accountable for the sins in the flesh, and are due and payable while in the flesh.

What God has done in Jesus is taken the penalty of death away from us and has given us liberty to live in the flesh as kings and queens of our own lives.

But, that doesn't mean that we don't still die, for the wages of sin is death, and that has not been changed.

God does forgive sins in the flesh, but we must repent, change our minds and live for Him, verses living for our selves.

The world still holds temptations for us, but in Jesus we can and will overcome them.

Peace>>>AJ
 

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