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  #61  
Old 06-07-2009, 08:28 AM
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Gord Gord is offline
 
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Originally Posted by biblereader View Post
Georgie, ...
I find that disrespectful and condescending.
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  #62  
Old 06-08-2009, 09:30 PM
custer custer is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Renee View Post
2 Corinthians deals with the ministery.

2 Corinthians 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

I see nothing in Chapter 7 of first Chorinthians (where it deals with men and women) that has any forbiding of someone marrying an unbeliever. There is no mention of nationality, culture, or color of skin. Our problem is we always put words in The Lords mouth. (Like Eve did from the very beginning).

1 Corinthians 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

Do you see any condemnation in the verse above?

When we read the Bible with faith and belief in our heart and pray for understanding, The Word comes alive. Knowledge puffet up, we should leave our brains in the top drawer!

Aloha,
Renee
How can anyone make First Corinthians 7:39 say that it is fine for a saved person to marry a lost person?

"...she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord."

If "ONLY IN THE LORD" doesn't refer to another believer, what does it refer to?

Pam
www.custerfamilyfarm.com
  #63  
Old 06-08-2009, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by George View Post
Aloha biblereader,

You must remember "context" - you said: "Same holds true today." But the New Testament doesn't say that.

From 2 Corinthians Chapter 1:1 to 2 Corinthians 11:1 you can NOT find the words "husband", "husbands", "wife", "wives", "marry", "married", or "marriage". In other words the teaching (in context) of 2 Corinthians 6: 1-18 is NOT about marriage - although that is how most pastors "apply" it!

Read the verses:

2 Corinthians 6:1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.
2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)
3 Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed:
4 But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses,
5 In stripes, in imprisonments, in tumults, in labours, in watchings, in fastings;
6 By pureness, by knowledge, by longsuffering, by kindness, by the Holy Ghost, by love unfeigned,
7 By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left,
8 By honour and dishonour, by evil report and good report: as deceivers, and yet true;
9 As unknown, and yet well known; as dying, and, behold, we live; as chastened, and not killed;
10 As sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things.
11 O ye Corinthians, our mouth is open unto you, our heart is enlarged.
12 Ye are not straitened in us, but ye are straitened in your own bowels.
13 Now for a recompence in the same, (I speak as unto my children,) be ye also enlarged.
14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.


These verses are NOT talking about "marriage". In the context they are talking about doing THE WORK OF GOD! Verse 1 talks about WORKERS; Verse 3 is talking about the "MINISTRY"; verse 4 talks about MINISTERS OF GOD; Verses 4-10 are talking about the "MINISTRY"; and Verse 14 is speaking about being "UNEQUALLY YOKED" - as in hooking up a Horse and a Ox together (for "WORK") or harnessing a Horse and a Jackass together (for "WORK"). {My wife and I have been married for 48 years, we aren't "YOKED" TOGETHER - we are "JOINED" TOGETHER - Matthew 19:6 & Mark 10:9}

The verses are simply saying - when you go out to do the "WORK" OF GOD, do NOT get hooked up ("yoked") with UNBELIEVERS! The words husband, husbands, wife, wives, marry, married, or marriage, cannot be found for at least four Chapters of either side of Chapter 6. {You couldn't find a reference to "marriage" or a "husband" or "wife" if you had a 300,000 thousand candle power spotlight!}

Now, am I recommending that a Christian marry a lost person? Of course NOT! I always recommend that a Christian marry "in the Lord"; but if they have married "outside of the faith", there is NO "penalty" - it's NOT the "same" as in the Old Testament. And although I DO NOT RECOMMEND marrying a lost person, there is NO CONDEMNATION if you have. 2 Corinthians Chapter 6 does NOT "apply" to "marriage". In the "context" it is speaking about doing the "WORK" of God with UNBELIEVERS. (as Billy Graham has done for years!)

When I first became a Christian 50 years ago the divorce rate (in the U.S.A.) between "Christians" was about 20% lower than non-Christians. Today the divorce rate (in the U.S.A.) between "Christians" is ONLY ABOUT 5% LOWER than non-Christians; so marrying a "Christian" today is NOT a "guarantee" that everything is going to "work out fine".

We have to be careful about what we say about this issue. There are many Christian men and women who are married to a spouse that is "lost". And although they may have problems because of this disparity between them, there are NO "penalties", and there is NO CONDEMNATION!
I believe the only "no condemnation" for saved people is conditional on not walking after the flesh (Romans 8:1.) How could one choose to have such an intimate union as marriage with a friend of the world (THE ENEMY OF GOD-James 4:4) and be walking after the Spirit?

As I stated in my last post, I don't see how I Cor. 7:39 could be any clearer!

And as far as being "unequally yoked," I looked up some English definitions... One of the definitions of "yoke" in an old (1828) and a new (1999) dictionary is "join," and BOTH of my dictionaries use MARRIAGE as an illustration under "yoke." (For "yoke," the newer Webster's says "TIE, LINK, esp. MARRIAGE." [The all-caps were in the dictionary!])

In First Corinthians 6:15-16, the "members of Christ" are (of course) the antithesis of the "members of an harlot." In a general sense, could not the "members of Christ" correlate to believers, while the "members of an harlot" would most likely be unbelievers? At the idea of joining them, Paul says "God forbid!"

In our original example of marriage, God joined two "sons of God." (Luke 3:38 with Genesis 5:2) Saved people are "sons of God" (John 1:12 and I John 3:1 it is not consistent to assume that God would join his sons to the sons of Belial.

In addition, there are numerous Bible principles that definitely can apply to a marriage relationship even if the word "marriage" is not in the passage:
Amos 3:3 "Can two walk together, except they be agreed?"
I Cor. 15:33 "Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners."
I Timothy 6:1-5 (That's a lot of typing...look it up!) Lost people don't "consent to...the words of our Lord Jesus Christ," so the command is to "withdraw thyself," not "go ahead and hang around them...better yet, marry one too!"
II Timothy 3:1-5 (Another long passage...) This one has the list of folks we're supposed to "turn away" from, and it includes "blasphemers," "unholy," and "lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God," terms that can obviously be applied to lost people!

How can you promote the idea that there are "NO PENALTIES" for acting in direct opposition to God's written word? How can you believe there are "NO PENALTIES" just because the Bible does not specify the consequences for every one of our actions? It's like God giving us his express desires and us saying "Or else, what?!?" Unthinkable!


Pam
www.custerfamilyfarm.com
  #64  
Old 06-08-2009, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by custer View Post
How can anyone make First Corinthians 7:39 say that it is fine for a saved person to marry a lost person?

"...she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord."

If "ONLY IN THE LORD" doesn't refer to another believer, what does it refer to?

Pam
www.custerfamilyfarm.com
Welcome back from your camping weekend, sister Pam! Hope you and your family had a wonderful time!

Thank you for pointing out that phrase "only in the Lord" since I think that I (and others here?) overlooked that.

Jassy
  #65  
Old 06-09-2009, 08:53 AM
custer custer is offline
 
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Welcome back from your camping weekend, sister Pam! Hope you and your family had a wonderful time!

Thank you for pointing out that phrase "only in the Lord" since I think that I (and others here?) overlooked that.

Jassy
Thank you! It wasn't exactly a fun family camping thing, though...me and my three boys camped at a craft festival to "peddle our wares!" My daughter and husband had to stay home to take care of the animals; our profit margin is substantially lower when we have to pay someone to do the animals! So, the ground was hard, we almost froze to death the first night while roasting during the day, and we barely made enough to cover the expenses...but we made it home safely and built some character, I guess!!!
  #66  
Old 06-09-2009, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by custer View Post
How can anyone make First Corinthians 7:39 say that it is fine for a saved person to marry a lost person?

"...she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord."

If "ONLY IN THE LORD" doesn't refer to another believer, what does it refer to?

Pam
www.custerfamilyfarm.com
2 Corinthians 6:14 does not deal with marriage. It would apply to, say, a believer working with Catholics in a faith-based anti-abortion organization or any other inter-faith organization that includes faiths other than Christianity.

Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

1 Corinthians 7:39 obviously says that a believing widow can remarry but only to another believer. I think by extension we can say that a believer, whether male or female should only marry another believer, but maybe it's not a general principle. Considering what Paul writes earlier in the chapter, if a believer marries an unbeliever the believer has disobeyed God but is still bound by marriage to the unbeliever. We have forgiveness of our sins but that doesn't mean we don't suffer for them in this life.

The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord.

That's my take on it, FWIW.

Jennifer
  #67  
Old 06-09-2009, 02:45 PM
custer custer is offline
 
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Hey, I just wanted to note that I didn't intentionally put that winking guy in my post #63...I'm not big on adding those guys to my posts; apparently my use of punctuation caused him!

Pam
www.custerfamilyfarm.com
  #68  
Old 06-09-2009, 03:05 PM
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It's me again! I had one more thought on Second Corinthians 6:14...

I do acknowledge that "marriage" is not mentioned in the passage, but I do still hold that the principle of separation of lost and saved folks definitely applies to the marriage relationship. The word "fellowship" will reference over to Ephesians 5:11 - "And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them." Verse seven of the same chapter tells us not to be partakers with the "children of disobedience," which are lost folks according to chapter 2 verses 1-2. Ephesians 5 is, of course, a quintessential passage on marriage with no paragraph divisions (to mark a possible change of subject) in the whole chapter! So, "comparing spiritual things with spiritual" (I Corinthians 2:13,) the separation principles of II Corinthians chapter six are definitively applicable to marriage!

I have to tell y'all - I have been SO excited about all this study...it has given me a renewed appreciation for this GREAT BOOK...THE KING JAMES BIBLE!!!

Pam
www.custerfamilyfarm.com
  #69  
Old 06-09-2009, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by custer View Post
It's me again! I had one more thought on Second Corinthians 6:14...

I do acknowledge that "marriage" is not mentioned in the passage, but I do still hold that the principle of separation of lost and saved folks definitely applies to the marriage relationship. The word "fellowship" will reference over to Ephesians 5:11 - "And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them." Verse seven of the same chapter tells us not to be partakers with the "children of disobedience," which are lost folks according to chapter 2 verses 1-2. Ephesians 5 is, of course, a quintessential passage on marriage with no paragraph divisions (to mark a possible change of subject) in the whole chapter! So, "comparing spiritual things with spiritual" (I Corinthians 2:13,) the separation principles of II Corinthians chapter six are definitively applicable to marriage!

I have to tell y'all - I have been SO excited about all this study...it has given me a renewed appreciation for this GREAT BOOK...THE KING JAMES BIBLE!!!

Pam
www.custerfamilyfarm.com
Pam,
I hope you don't mind me jumping into this topic but it has caught my interest, as well! I've always wondered about these things but never really looked into them before. So let me start by saying that I am just learning here.

I believe in Paul's day Jews, maybe not gentiles, were betrothed sometimes years before they were of age to marry (I could be wrong). If a young man had become a believer after his betrothal to a young woman, and she was not a believer, should he still marry her? I have wondered before if that is what Paul is referring to in 1 Corinthians chapter 7.

7:28 But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned. Nevertheless such shall have trouble in the flesh: but I spare you.
7:36-38 But if any man think that he behaveth himself uncomely toward his virgin, if she pass the flower of her age, and need so require, let him do what he will, he sinneth not: let them marry. Nevertheless he that standeth stedfast in his heart, having no necessity, but hath power over his own will, and hath so decreed in his heart that he will keep his virgin, doeth well. So then he that giveth her in marriage doeth well; but he that giveth her not in marriage doeth better.

I have to back away from imposing rules of conduct upon individuals and circumstances when the scriptures don't explicitly say to. I think just one little error in interpretation today can cause bigger errors tomorrow. I think this is one reason for different sects and denominations, namely, not rightly dividing the Word and adding to or taking away from what it says because it seems right in our own eyes.

I'm not saying that I think its a good idea for believers to marry unbelievers and I'm not saying scripture doesn't teach that it shouldn't be done, I just don't see any of the verses that you've referenced that say so. 1 Corinthians 7:39 is the closest to doing that but really it only says that believing widows should marry a believer. Also, Paul says in 7:25 that he is not speaking by commandment of the Lord before he goes into whether it is better to marry or not to marry your virgins.

In 7:39 he may have been addressing a problem of lonely or destitute widows marrying unbelievers out of desperation with disasterous results. There may have been many more women believers than men believers, who knows? And women tend to live longer than men, and older men tend to marry younger women rather than the reverse.

These are just some thoughts I was mulling around in my head as I was working in my yard so I came in to post them.

Jennifer
  #70  
Old 06-09-2009, 06:22 PM
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This is a really interesting thread going here. In studying about this, I came up with some other questions. I'm going to post that under: "Acceptable and Unacceptable Reasons for Divorce."

I know that the Jewish people were given some acceptable reasons for divorcing, such as a spouse that committed adultery. I don't know think that the New Testament gets into that subject.

I'll post this now and then start a new Thread.

Jassy
 

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