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Old 05-21-2009, 05:43 AM
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Default Hebrews Chapter 10

I have read this section of holy Scripture, many times, and have wondered if I am right, in my conclusions.
I won't say what those are, because I don't want to sway anyone, but I would like to hear your thoughts on this. What is Jesus telling us?

22: Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
23: Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised
24: And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
26: For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27: But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28: He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30: For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31: It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
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Old 05-21-2009, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by biblereader View Post
26: For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
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I think this verse is the most troubling for most believers, new believers especially who ask something like "does this mean if I sin after being saved that I am lost forever?"

No, that is not what this verse is saying. Remember, context, context, context.

First of all, this is the letter to the Hebrews which begins:

1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son

Paul, who I believe for a number of reasons penned this letter, begins by telling these Jewish believers that God in the past spoke to us through prophets but now has spoken to us by his Son. Jesus Christ being the incarnate fulfillment of both the law and the prophets. Any Jew who did not accept this was hopelessly lost

In chapter 10 he is specifically addressing the issue of Jews trying to continue in the Old Testament legal sacrifice for sins while ignoring the sacrifice Christ made. First off, those sacrifices never took away sin in the first place or they wouldn't have to have been repeated:


1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. 3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

So since they could not take away sins it was necessary to prepare a body:

5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me

That body was the body of the Lord Jesus Christ:

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

And the sacrifice of his body was the perfect sacrifice which forever perfects them who are sanctified by it:

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Now these sanctified ones have a glorious new way to approach the Father in boldness knowing they are PERFECT in Christ:

19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

Knowing this to be true, Paul was admonishing these believers to not "draw back" by denying the sufficiency of Christ's sacrifice by going back to the old sacrificial system thinking that it is what saves them:

29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

Hebrews 10
King James Bible

So here is the sin which "if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins". It is the denial of the sufficiency of the sacrifice of Christ to save. So this verse is not relevant to Gentiles in our day because first of all we are not Jews. Second, We do not practice the sacrificial system being described here. And third, the temple was destroyed in 70 A.D. So it is not even possible anymore. That's what all those Jews at the wailing wall are wailing about.

But although this verse does not apply to us today, it is highly instructional because we gentiles have managed to set set up a bunch of priests of our own, and traditions of our own. All of these have one result: the denial of the sufficiency of Christ's sacrifice to save us forever and completely!

Won't you rejoice with me today over the wonderful gift we have been given of PERFECTION and COMPLETENESS in CHRIST JESUS?
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Old 05-21-2009, 07:09 AM
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you said:
But although this verse does not apply to us today,

my question to you: any other parts of the bible that you believe do not apply to us, today?
What is your source/reason for using these verses to validate your viewpoint on the Hebrews verses?
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Old 05-21-2009, 07:11 AM
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johnlf, please explain what you mean, in your profile, by pre-mill, and pre trib
believer?

what other parts of the bible do you feel are not applicable or relevant to us today, besides Hebrews 10/
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Old 05-21-2009, 08:13 AM
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Most of the Bible does not apply to us today because it is not written to us. That does not mean that it is not profitable for our instruction:

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

But it does mean that it does not apply to us today in the sense that we are not commanded to obey it because it is not written to us. If we act as if it is we are in a sense reading someone elses mail as if it is our own. So when I say that it does not apply to us today, I am saying that since it was not written to us but written to first century Jewish believers, it is instructional for us gentiles but not meant to be read as if it is specific instructions TO US GENTILES

pre-mill means I believe that the Bible teaches that a thousand year reign of Christ on the earth from Jerusalem is yet to come. So we are in age that precedes the millennium.

pre-trib mean that I believe that the Bible teaches that preceding the millennium there will be a seven year period of tribulation.
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Old 05-21-2009, 11:27 AM
Brother Jerry Brother Jerry is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biblereader View Post
I have read this section of holy Scripture, many times, and have wondered if I am right, in my conclusions.
I won't say what those are, because I don't want to sway anyone, but I would like to hear your thoughts on this. What is Jesus telling us?

22: Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
23: Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised
24: And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
26: For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27: But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28: He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30: For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31: It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
I take this scripture to mean precisely what it says it means.
  #7  
Old 05-21-2009, 01:27 PM
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I take this scripture to mean precisely what it says it means.

23: Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering;

Why, does Jesus tell us to hold fast, without wavering?
What happens if we don't hold fast, and we DO waver?
What comes to mind now, is
6: But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
7: For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.

Yes, GOD is faithful, but we are not. If any man thinks he does not sin, he's a liar.
So, you take that scripture to mean precisely what it says, how about this one?
26: For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27: But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

If we sin wilfully. That's a big one. God always, always provides a way out of giving in to any temptation or sin, or he makes us able to bear up under the pressure of the sin, and not give in.
Do you sin wilfully? Is it really possible to live a life pleasing to Jesus, every day and night?
Yes, it must be or He would not have told us how to do it.
That's where, it comes to my mind, that the path is narrow, and few there be that find it.
  #8  
Old 05-21-2009, 01:28 PM
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Most of the Bible does not apply to us today because it is not written to us.
WHAT?!?

So when I say that it does not apply to us today, I am saying that since it was not written to us but written to first century Jewish believers, it is instructional for us gentiles but not meant to be read as if it is specific instructions TO US GENTILES.

Where did you pick up this lie of the devil? ANYONE who is truly born again, is a recipient of, and responsible for, knowing the entire bible. We do live in the New Testament time, though, so, since we're saved by the shed blood of Jesus Christ, we are not under the laws of the OT.
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Old 05-21-2009, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biblereader View Post
you said:
But although this verse does not apply to us today,

my question to you: any other parts of the bible that you believe do not apply to us, today?
What is your source/reason for using these verses to validate your viewpoint on the Hebrews verses?
I don't know...instead of just reading the Bible, maybe you should study it. Perhaps this verse will help you understand that all does not apply to us today.
Leviticus 24:14 Bring forth him that hath cursed without the camp; and let all that heard him lay their hands upon his head, and let all the congregation stone him.
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Old 05-21-2009, 02:01 PM
peopleoftheway peopleoftheway is offline
 
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Originally Posted by biblereader View Post
WHAT?!?

So when I say that it does not apply to us today, I am saying that since it was not written to us but written to first century Jewish believers, it is instructional for us gentiles but not meant to be read as if it is specific instructions TO US GENTILES.

Where did you pick up this lie of the devil? ANYONE who is truly born again, is a recipient of, and responsible for, knowing the entire bible. We do live in the New Testament time, though, so, since we're saved by the shed blood of Jesus Christ, we are not under the laws of the OT.
Thats no lie of the devil, that is rightly dividing the word of truth, while most of the Bible is not written to us it is written for our ensample and admonition
we cannot apply scripture that isn't meant FOR us but we can learn FROM it
 

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