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#41
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Re: "Dispensational Truth and Error"
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Aloha John G, Please consider the following: The Lord Jesus Christ"s "Gospel" to Nicodemus {BEFORE His actual death, burial & resurrection}: John 3:11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? 13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. The Apostle Paul's "Gospel" in 1 Corinthians: 1 Corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: Please compare the two "Gospels": In the Gospel of John (Chapter 3) there is NO specific mention of the Lord's death, burial, and especially His RESURRECTION. And there is NO mention of sin (or sins) HOW can the two "Gospels" be the "SAME" - if there is NO specific mention of the RESURRECTION of the Lord Jesus Christ in the entire Chapter Three of the Gospel of John? HOW can the two "Gospels" be the "SAME" - if there is no mention of Christ dying for "our sins"? {The Jews of Jesus' day were required to BELIEVE in Him - that is they were to BELIEVE that He was their Messiah & King} In 1Corinthians 15:1-4 Paul's DEFINES his "Gospel" - Christ died according to the scriptures; for our sins; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: {From shortly after Paul's conversion up to the present day we are required to BELIEVE Paul's "Gospel": i.e. that the Lord Jesus Christ died for "our sins", and that He was buried, and that he ROSE AGAIN from the dead - all "according to the Scriptures".} Today, we do not preach a "gospel" without mentioning the fact that "Christ died for our sins"; and we certainly don't omit the fact that He ROSE AGAIN! I said in another Post: Quote:
http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...9&postcount=69 I hope this may be of some help in your search for the truth. |
#42
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#43
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Winman, chapter 7 doesn't address what I have written. You don't think for yourself you appeal to the authority of other men and let them do your thinking for you. I have to go with what the bible says here. I'm sure I'm not right on every point but it sure lines up with Paul's writings and Acts and the Gospels better than than your one gospel in the history of the world theory.
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#44
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George,
I have a great deal of respect for your knowledge of the scriptures. As I've made clear on various posts, I have never really attended a church and have just gotten back into the scriptures recently after a decade of barely being in them at all. It would be surprising if I was right on everything. I've written what I believe from what I've read and understood. If you think I'm wrong on anything I would be happy to see you respond if you wanted to. I'm just so tired of hearing brother's arguments that aren't even arguments from scripture rightly divided. |
#45
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Greenbear..
Good evening GB,
Winman wanted you to read Mr. Ironside's 7 chapter article as opposed to chapter 7 of the article. It seems you didn't rightly divide Winman's comment. |
#46
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This exactly the error of Ironside, you and many others. you make the Gospel of Grace retroactive into the narratives of the four Gospel writers and the Old Testament. They did not and could not have presented the gospel of grace in the life of Christ prior to the revealing of the mystery to Paul. (you have been shown all the scriptures already in many threads and posts) This is part of Dominion, Replacement and Covenant Theology's technique to read into previous writings the Gospel of Grace. it is a flawed premise and a twisting of scriptures to placate their religious practice today. |
#47
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John G,
We are not commanded to rightly divide the posts of Winman or any man. the command is to rightly divide the word of truth. |
#48
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Good discussion
Thanks for your courteous reply Bro. George. No doubt, I still have a lot to learn.
I must contend, however, that Nicodemus already believed in a resurrection. John 3:1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: Acts 23:8 For the Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, neither angel, nor spirit: but the Pharisees confess both. I also think they Nicodemus should have realized [and I believe he eventually did] the powerful loaded terms the Lord Jesus was using. The “Son of man” and Moses and the serpent references should have sent alarms off in Nicodemus’ head to see the Truth sitting before him. John 3:10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? Num 21:7 Therefore the people came to Moses, and said, We have sinned, for we have spoken against the LORD, and against thee; pray unto the LORD, that he take away the serpents from us. And Moses prayed for the people. Here is Paul before Agrippa and Festus….. Act 26:22 Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come: Act 26:23 That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles. Nicodemus, being a master of Israel, should have seen Him coming. Good discussion… |
#49
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Just for you and Winman I will read chapters 1-6.
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#50
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Winman,
Thanks for your concern in recommending Ironside's article. I read chapter 7, then 1-3. Unfortunately, I feel it's a waste of my time to continue so I won't. In my opinion, Ironside resorts to character assassination, name-calling, fear-mongering, straw-man arguments, faulty reasoning, wrong interpretation of scriptures and he doesn't seem very strong in eschatology, either. Attempting to influence opinion by labeling those who disagree as a heretic by the "orthodox" consensus is the oldest trick in the book. I think the correct perspective is that the refomation didn't go very far toward literal interpretation of all scripture unless it is apparent from the text that it should be read otherwise. Men like Ironside were greatly used of God but they didn't go far enough in literal interpretation. It is impossible to literally interpret the scriptures without a dispensational framework. If people want to label me as something or other because I may agree on some points, oh well. For the record, I never said the church/body of Christ/bride of Christ didn't start with the Jewish church. At this time, to the best of my understanding, I see it as same body, 2 dispensations. Not 2 bodies, 2 dispensations. Definitely not 1 body, 1 dispensation. If some choose to let other men do their thinking for them and use every kind of argument including appeal to some man's authority rather than sound scriptural ones then that's their business. We all have to face the judgement seat of Christ. I choose to study to show myself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. If that causes some to accuse me of spiritual and intellectual pride then so be it. I'm not the judge. I will endeavor to follow after charity in my posts: Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, Charity never faileth 1 Corinthians 13:4-5. Last edited by greenbear; 06-30-2009 at 11:21 PM. |
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