[chette777]

In speaking of the GWT Great White Throne Judgement Satan is already in Lake of fire at that time. I was just pointing out that we have plenty of teaching int he church that are not backed up Biblically and He standing to accuse people at the great white throne was one of those.

I already said I agreed that later verse in Isa 14 were in reference to the anti-christ. But verse 14:12 has to do with the root of Lucifer's fall, not his future fall as the anti-christ. remember Lucifer is his pre fall name and Satan is his fallen name.


Why is Lucifer(Satan) not in the Lake-O-Fire already? Because he has already been judged (eternity past) and sentenced (eternity past) but the sentencing has not yet been executed or carried out yet. that takes place in Rev 20 (future). For Satan is still playing a vital role in God's will right now.

Interesting that you used the word bondage more specifically to Satan. I will comment on that word in another Post.

But where does it say IN THE BIBLE Satan has anyone in bondage to him? the Bible is clear Sin can bring you into bandage, and men can bring you into bondage, fear of death is a bondage and the LAW is bondage and weak and beggarly elements bring people into bondage.. But I find no verse to back you statement that Satan brings people into bondage. you sound like you are a charismatic with such notions.


so lets get back of track to the NON EVOLUTIONARY GAP THEORY shall we.

[Winman]

Chette said:

So when did Lucifer fall?

Sometime between Gen1:1 and Gen1:2

Now, you know I disagree with you, as Gen 1:31 says God saw every thing he had made and it was very good. So I believe Satan fell sometime after this.

But truth is, there is not a whole lot of information in the Bible on this subject. I actually did a search on the Fall of Satan and read quite a few articles. One Pastor wrote that there was not a lot of information on the subject, and suggested perhaps God does not feel we need to know that much. Maybe so.

But I did find this article from Independence Baptist Church in Foristell, Missiouri and thought it quite good. It is written in outline form and has scripture to back it up.

Anyway, I think you will find it interesting, and it will open up this subject to more discussion and many Bible verses on the subject. By the way, Independence Baptist Church is King James only.

WE BELIEVE THAT SATAN IS REAL, THE AUTHOR OF SIN AND THE CAUSE OF THE FALL OF MAN; THAT HE IS THE OPEN AND DECLARED ENEMY OF GOD AND MAN; AND, THAT HE SHALL BE ETERNALLY PUNISHED IN THE LAKE OF FIRE.

I. We are going to be studying this subject under the following headings.

A. Satan is real.

B. Satan is the author and cause of sin.

C. Satan is the enemy of God.

D. The final end of Satan.

One thing I need to say at the very beginning: Our problem with sin is not so much caused by Satan as it is caused by our own sinful natures. It is wrong to say, "Satan made me do it", when the truth is we are deceived into sin by our own lust. There is no doubt Satan influences us into sin, but when we blame him, we do not blame ourselves.

II. Satan is shown by to real by the following scriptures.

A. Job 1:6-7 – Satan was real when he appeared before God to ask the favor of tormenting righteous Job.

B. Isaiah 14:12-17 – Satan was real when he aspired to sit on the throne of God.

C. Matthew 4:2-11 – Satan was real when he tempted Christ.

D. Revelation 20:10 – Satan is real when he is thrown into the Lake of Fire.

E. God created everything, including Satan. Everything, including Satan is real.

1. God created all things.

a. In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

b. Psalm 89:11-12 – God has created the north and the south.

c. Isaiah 45:7 – God forms the light and the darkness. God makes peace and creates evil.

d. Isaiah 54:16 – God has created the waster to destroy.

2. Colossians 1:16 – Everything has been created by God and for God.

3. Revelation 4:11 – God has created all things, and for his pleasure they are and were created.

F. God did not create Satan to be evil, but God did create Satan.

1. Satan has free will and became evil.

2. Compare the various creatures God created – some with no will, some with will, but no redemption, and us with free will, plus he would redeem us.

a. God created objects that have no life at all. These are planets, suns, moons, stars, rocks, minerals, etc.

b. God created plants, which have life, but have no feelings.

c. God created animals, which have life and feelings, but no eternal soul.

d. God created the living creatures of Ezekiel 1 and Revelation 4:6-9, which are descriptive of Christ and have no will of their own. They are designed by God to give him glory 24/7.

e. God created the Seraphims of Isaiah 6, which are so holy they burn in their own holiness, yet they give continual glory and honor to God.

f. God created angels with a free will, yet never offered them salvation or redemption.

g. God created humans with a free will, yet offers eternal redemption to them.

3. Exodus 9:16 – God raised up Pharaoh for the sole purpose of showing the power of God.

a. God can raise up Satan to show his power forever.

b. God did not create Pharaoh evil.

c. Pharaoh was already evil.

III. Satan is the author of sin and the cause of the fall of man.

A. Satan is created upright.

1. Genesis 1:31 declare that God looked on his creation and saw that everything he had made was very good.

2. This statement includes Satan, who had not fallen as yet.

3. There was no sin or death in the world in Genesis 1:31.

B. Between Genesis 2:25 and Genesis 3:1, pride drives Satan into rebellion.

1. The time of his fall is after creation, not before creation or during creation.

a. Genesis 1:31 – When God finished creating, he said everything was very good.

b. When Jesus said this, there was no sin, no wickedness, no rebellion and no death in the world.

c. Satan had not fallen as yet.

2. Genesis 3:1 – Satan came to the woman to deceive her.

a. At this point, Satan had fallen.

b. Ezekiel 28:12-19 and Isaiah 14:12-14 were being set in motion, although the secondary prophecies of these verses will not take place for a long time.

3. Ezekiel 28:12-19 – This passage is double prophecy.

a. The primary prophecy is concerning the king of Tyrus.

b. The secondary prophecy is concerning Satan.

1) Verse 12-15 refers to the condition of Satan before his fall.

2) Verse 16-19 refers to the reasons Satan fell and the consequences of his fall.

4. Isaiah 14:4-23 is another double prophecy.

a. The primary prophecy is written to the king of Babylon.

b. The secondary prophecy is written to Satan.

C. The result of Satan’s rebellion.

1. Satan is given dominion over the world.

a. Job 9:24 – "The earth is given into the hand of the wicked: he covereth the faces of the judges thereof; if not, where, and who is he?"

1) Job is speaking, therefore we can know this is correct.

2) God owns the world (Ps. 24:1 – "The earth is the LORD'S, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein.") but, as we read in Job 9:24, the world has been ‘given into the hand’ of Satan temporarily; and Satan dominates it, subject to such limitations as God is pleased to impose.

b. Matthew 4:8,9 – "Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and showeth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; 9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me."

c. Luke 4:6 – "And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it."

d. Ephesians 2:2 – "Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience"

e. Psalm 76:10 – "Surely the wrath of man shall praise thee: the remainder of wrath shalt thou restrain."

1) Satan is the prince and power of the air, but just as God restrained Satan from killing Job, so Satan is restrained in the evil he is allowed to do.

2) Revelation 9:4,5 – When these demons are released from the bottomless pit, they are restrained from hurting the people of God, but they are allowed to hurt the people who have not the seal of God in their foreheads. God restrains these demons from killing people, but allows them power to torment for the limited time of five months.

3) Note the power of God over Satan, and that power continues today and will continue for all eternity.

2. Satan was given authority to sow tares in the world, which are his children – the non-elect.

a. Matthew 13:25, 13:38-39 – Satan sowed tares in the world when he deceived the woman.

b. The tares are mixed in with the wheat.

c. There can be saved people in every family, even though they are born of lost parents.

d. There can be lost children in every family, even though they are born of saved, Godly parents.

3. God’s people will wrestle against spiritual wickedness as long as we are in this world.

a. Ephesians 6:12 – "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."

b. When this world is over, or our time on this earth is over, our personal battle against Satan will also be over.

4. Satan is given authority to accuse God’s children.

a. Revelation 12:9,10 – "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. 10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night."

b. Job 1:6 – "Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them."

c. Job 1:9 – "Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?"

d. Job 2:3-5 – "And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause. 4 And Satan answered the LORD, and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life. 5 But put forth thine hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse thee to thy face."

5. Satan begins accusing God’s children with the wife of Adam.

a. Genesis 3:1 – "Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?"

b. The accusations by Satan continue to every child of God.

IV. Satan is the open and declared enemy of God and man.

A. Matthew 13 – Concerning the sowing of tares, Jesus said, "…an enemy hath done this…"

B. II Thessalonians 2:4 - "Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."

V. Satan shall be eternally punished in the Lake of Fire.

A. The demons know they are awaiting the judgment of God.

1. Matthew 8:29 – "And, behold, they cried out, saying, "What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?"

2. It is very clear that these demons know they have torment coming, but they do not repent of any of their evil doings.

B. Satan knows he has but a short time.

1. Revelation 12:9 – "Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time."

C. Satan knows he is under the continual authority of God because he always has to get permission before he can do anything – see Job.

D. Satan is cast into the bottomless pit, which is his abode.

1. Revelation 20:1-3 – "And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season."

2. At the end of the 1,000 years, Satan will be turned loose on the earth once again.

3. He will go out and lead a great multitude against God.

4. Then cometh the end.

E. Satan is cast into the Lake of Fire.

1. Revelation 20:10 – "And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

2. Satan never stands before God in judgment as saved and lost people will stand before God. I personally think God has already judged him and he knows his condemnation is at hand.

VI. The present abode of Satan.

A. The following scriptures indicate that Satan’s present abode is the bottomless pit, of which he is king.

1. Satan’s present throne is in the bottomless pit, and he goes out into the world and into heaven.

2. The throne of Christ is in the sides of the north, and he sits upon the circle of the earth.

B. The bottomless pit is in this world, actually in the center of this world, and will, during the millennium reign of Christ come to the surface, where all people will be able to see the suffering of all the people in that place.

1. While Satan’s abode is in the bottomless pit, he has been granted authority to move about in his dominion (this earth), where he is the prince and power of the air.

2. Satan will be locked in his own home for 1,000 years, then the bottomless pit and death and all hell, and every unbeliever, including Satan will be finally cast into the Lake of Fire forever and ever.

C. Scriptures showing the present and future abode of Satan.

1. Revelation 9:1 – "And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit."

2. Revelation 9:2 – "And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit."

3. Revelation 9:11 – "And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon."

a. The word "king" means leader, just as Jesus Christ is the king. The demons take all their orders from Satan and worship him as their king.

b. The word "Abaddon" means destruction.

c. The word "Apollyon" means destroyer.

4. Revelation 11:7 – "And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them."

5. Revelation 17:8 – "The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is."

6. Revelation 20:1 – "And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand."

7. Revelation 20:3 – "And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season."

Now, according to this teacher, Satan's throne is in the bottomless pit. And there are some verses to support that.

[chette777]

I took time and read the article I have no problem with it. You will notice the reference to Isa 14:12-16 the writer uses the term "was real" and he uses the fallen name not Lucifer. so that implies that the writer believed Lucifer and Satan are the same person and sometime in the past Lucifer. but it is not written in the word of God much because it did not take place during our current 24/7 TQ. however by inspiration God reveals a little here and there because of his continued presence and influence upon the world of men.

and he calls it a double prophecy meaning it has a meaning for the them destruction of Israel and those who destroyed her and a future with the anti-christ. I agreed with that already in your previous post.

also, the writer says the throne of Christ is in the north of the north. but the Bible does not say that. it says the throne of God is in the north of the north and it says th that God (LORD, Jehovah, the Father) sits on the circle of the earth.

Christ is the Lamb by John the Baptist testimony (by the way Paul never calls him the Lamb) and the Lamb's throne will be in Jerusalem and in the New Jerusalem now the Lamb being Christ his throne not in the North of the North but on the EARTH and the NEW EARTH, Revealing God's original purpose that his son's throne be on the earth.

And that the writer agrees with my statement that Satan is in the lake of fire by the time of the great white throne judgement, and my statement that he has already been judged in the past.

ok we can get back to the discussion at hand and reserve this to another post

[Winman]

ok we can get back to the discussion at hand and reserve this to another post

The discussion was the gap theory. The author of that article agreed with myself and others that Satan had not fallen as of Gen 1:31 and that death and sin had not entered the world.

Probably the biggest problem with your Gap Theory is that it says there was sin and death in the world before Adam sinned in the garden. This is a serious error.

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

And in Romans 5:14 it names Adam by name as the man who sinned and brought death into the world.

Your Gap Theory absolutely goes against God's Word here. This is not a small matter, you should read these verses in Romans carefully and think twice about this theory without scripture to back it up.

And I was not the one who brought up the "throne" to begin with, I think this was my very first post about that. You have mentioned it several times.

I posted this article because it dealt with the fall of Satan. According to this author, it had to happen between Gen 2:25 and Gen 3:1. I agree.

[geologist]

Originally Posted by Winman

Probably the biggest problem with your Gap Theory is that it says there was sin and death in the world before Adam sinned in the garden. This is a serious error.

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

And in Romans 5:14 it names Adam by name as the man who sinned and brought death into the world.

Your Gap Theory absolutely goes against God's Word here. This is not a small matter, you should read these verses in Romans carefully and think twice about this theory without scripture to back it up.

You are neglecting to look at the CONTEXT of these passages. The context of both is "the world" and that is a reference to our present world. There were other "worlds" before ours, and there will be different "worlds" afterward. See this page for a study of this word and its meaning: http://www.kjvbible.org/theworlds.html

[chette777]

Originally Posted by Winman

The discussion was the gap theory. The author of that article agreed with myself and others that Satan had not fallen as of Gen 1:31 and that death and sin had not entered the world.

Probably the biggest problem with your Gap Theory is that it says there was sin and death in the world before Adam sinned in the garden. This is a serious error.

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

And in Romans 5:14 it names Adam by name as the man who sinned and brought death into the world.

Your Gap Theory absolutely goes against God's Word here. This is not a small matter, you should read these verses in Romans carefully and think twice about this theory without scripture to back it up.

And I was not the one who brought up the "throne" to begin with, I think this was my very first post about that. You have mentioned it several times.

I posted this article because it dealt with the fall of Satan. According to this author, it had to happen between Gen 2:25 and Gen 3:1. I agree.

I high lighted the parts of the your post and scriptures you are referring too. so starting from the top

you never gave a link to or a name of the writer of the article or it's title. How was I to know it was about a no gap teaching from what you posted? It look like a partial study on the person of Satan.

Well you all keep saying that that is our biggest problem. so lets look at the reasoning of the scriptures you have proposed.

Adams sin brought sin and death into our current world of 24/7. those scriptures speak plainly of that and with that I do not dis agree.

Howbeit, I have never said that death was before Gen1:2 in this world which is based on it's beginning with the creation of time on day one. What you are doing is lumping people that don't agree with your view into one group of Evolution of death before Gen 1:2 group). Only physical beings can experience physical death. Not one person from Adam on ever had spiritual death yet and even then they are alive in that death forever.

I only mentioned once about plants that if the previous Earth was called the Garden of God (read previous posts) had been destroyed it could account for some oil deposits. However I am not fully in agreement with geologist on that.

Many of you have said Lucifer fell after Gen1:31. where is your Biblical proof?

You speak from the same grounds of silence as you claim that we do on that issue. where is your proof Lucifer fell after Gen1:31? surely if it took place afterward it would be written for all things that have been revealed of man and this current earth are revealed in the Bible from Gen 1:2 to Revelation 22:21, nothing is missing except the fall of Lucifer and a host of angels. why? because it took place before the current TQ.

And what about all those spiritual beings that are in the chains of darkness or are loose in our world and it's heavens.

So when did God cast down and deliver them/angels in the Bible?
2 Peter 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast [them] down to hell, and delivered [them] into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; this execution of God's judgement will take place in Rev 19

When did the Angels leave there first Estate?
Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. this verse is the same event as 2Peter 2:4. Surely if you say Gen 6 then you are showing that the sons of God are not the godly line of Seth but are fallen angels as we have presented. so when did they fall prior to Gen 6? Here God clearly reveals the activity of devils in Gen 6. so why would he not reveal their fall if it indeed took place after Gen1:31 and before Gen 6 actually? But we know that their fall had to be before Gen 3 when the old serpent called the devil and Satan tempted Mrs ADAM, and when Mr ADAM did eat. Logically your view has them falling after day 7 and before day 8. But you don't see that because you want Mr and Mrs ADAM in the garden a much longer time to allow for Lucifer's and his angles fall. But silence is there? I have a theory of which you already read. man needs less than one day to be tested.

When did God charge his Angels with folly?
Job4:19. . . and his angels he charged with folly:

The reason I ask is, if it took place after the 6 days of creation it would have to do with man and the earth in it's current form and TQ and that would be revealed in the Bible. For God takes the time to reveal other events in the Bible concerning devils why not their fall? that is if it took place after he created time. For all the history of man is in the Bible (not nations today or of recent times but of man in general). And the history of the earth and animals is here and it's current curse brought in by ADAM, not Lucifer or Satan. and the activities of devils is recorded here as well.

We have by understanding first. God created a time measurement or time quantum that he and his creation are bound too in the firmament that contains it.

Second, certain events about Lucifer took place outside the current TQ. hence that is why it is not fully revealed in scriptures. But God knowing us did reveal enough for those who would seek after it and find it. that is why we can link together Jeremiah 4:23 and Genesis 1:2 with 2 Peter 3:5.

third once understanding that day one had time and not light created we then see that the rest of the 6 day Creation is set in motion with these other elements of the Past before our current time are still affecting the earths and mans current state. but the work of Satan in this world now is revealed but not all of what happened before he fell is. Only what he looked like and that he was an anointed cherub that covereth he is not longer anointed but cursed to hell. it also reveals how he fell Isa 14:12

our gap view does not hold death took place before Gen1:2 that is you putting us into a group we don't belong too. Calvinist do the same to those who don't hold the TULIP. they put us in the Arminianist camp. But we don't agree with Arminianism either. why do they do that. Because they don't want to recognize that there is another group.

We are the NON Evolution Gap theorist AND not a pre 6 day creation Death Gap group (that would fall under evolutionism).

[Winman]

There are so many problems with your theory. The Bible says death came by man, not angels.

1 Cor 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Your theory says there was sin and death before Adam

From your site:

Adam's newly created "world" was pristine on the surface. But under Adam's feet, entombed and hidden in the sedimentary rocks of the planet, was the buried fossil record - God's material testimony to the truth of the existence of a previous world on the face of the Earth and a long reign of death across ancient ages past, long before the new world of Adam

Now, you and Chette are different here. Chette believes the fossil record was established after the six day creation, most likely Noah's flood. But you clearly state here there was death in the world before Adam. But my Bible says death came by man, and that man was Adam.

It doesn't make a lot of sense to destroy the world full of angelic beings. You can't kill them like mortal men and animals. If Satan were in the world between Gen 1:1 and Gen 1:2, how would destroying the earth solve anything? Satan is still alive and in the world TODAY.

And, if destroying this theoretical world was to prevent Satan from having a kingdom on earth, why does the Lord allow Satan a kingdom here now?

John 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

Luke 11:18 If Satan also be divided against himself, how shall his kingdom stand? because ye say that I cast out devils through Beelzebub.

[chette777]

Winman read post #86 on this page it is in between yours and Geologist's posts

Originally Posted by Winman

It doesn't make a lot of sense to destroy the world full of angelic beings. You can't kill them like mortal men and animals. If Satan were in the world between Gen 1:1 and Gen 1:2, how would destroying the earth solve anything? Satan is still alive and in the world TODAY.

sure it does if God tells us that the wages of sin is death. surely it would be the same for Cherubs and angels. he destroyed the earth because of the throne that was created on it. it is possible a whole city was created around that throne just like in Rev 21. I bet you it was grand site to see if it stumbled Lucifer the smartest being next to God.

All those angels and Satan will suffer eternal death in the lake of fire. but from the Bible they are not dead at all but very much alive as their torment rises up before the throne of and and of the Lamb forever and ever. along with all the souls of men cast into that place.

FYI As far as I have been able to ascertain there are currently 7 views on this subject. 1 no gap and 6 gap theories mine being the most recent developed and still in developing stages.

Mine hold to a gap with a 6 day creation, fall, followed by Noah's flood resulting in fossils, and the repopulation without a destruction of the earth meaning it wasn't laid without form and void as previously when first covered by waters.

And that the purpose of creation of 6 days was to introduce a new creature that God wanted to serve him Man, and to carry out his original purpose of creating the earth in the first place, for a Throne for His Son, the Lamb or Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

[Winman]

Chette

I realize Satan and his angels will be cast into the lake of fire. But why destroy the physical earth if it was inhabited by spiritual, angelic beings?

As I wrote before, Satan and his angels are alive and well and still in the world today.

And God allowed Satan great authority in this world. He is called the "prince of this world" by our Lord Jesus himself.

John 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

Please note the Lord said "this world", not some make-believe world that existed between Gen 1:1 and Gen 1:2

I am getting tired of arguing with you guys. I have presented plenty of scripture that opposes your theory. I think you are making a serious error teaching there was death before Adam. The Bible teaches man brought death into the world, not Satan or angels, and that man was Adam.

[chette777]

again the reason is because it is polluted with their sin. why do you think this current earth will be destroyed? for the same reason it is polluted with sin.

Not all of them are in this world. some are released from the pit during the tribulation. and that for the purpose of finalizing their judgement or implementing their execution.

you think the earth was make believe between Gen 1:1 and 1:2? I don't. I just hold that it is not the same one you and I enjoy today. because it existed before time was created in Gen 1:3-5. That is a dividing marker there from eternity TQ to a 24/7 TQ.
I don't mind if you don't see it my way and I wont try and convince you.

I have taken the time to read all the views. that is why I decided to clarify what it is that some of us really do believe about a GAP theory, one without evolution or death prior to the Gen 3.

I have presented enough scriptures to prove our point to you as well. you are welcome to your opinion but be careful not to judge another mans servant.