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#21
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I thought that was a given...
It's the Calvinists that limit God. Essentially, God's foreknowledge is based on his eternal decree, so God knows everything that will happen because He said it would happen. Not very omniscient to me. I think God knows everything that will happen and could happen and would happen and so on.. |
#22
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George, You seem to do like many others, that is just pick and choose the verses that fit your "theology". Since you do not want to be labeled as a Calvinist or a Armenian you take the "middle of the road theology". The two verses that I have not seen you address is Acts 13:48,"And when the Gentiles heard this they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord, and as many as were ORDAINED to eternal life BELIEVED." And also John 6:44," No man can come to me,except the Father which hath sent me draw him." How do these fit in with your "theology" Or do they?
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#23
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And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. (John 12:32 KJV) It also doesn't suprise me that you Calvinists use verses out of John and early Acts to build your doctrine upon. This is an earmark of Calvinists who fail to rightly divide. For every verse that you Calvinists use to build your doctrine, there are 10 (a conservative guess) to support the opposite. For Jesus' sake, Stephen |
#24
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Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done. (Luke 22:42 KJV) For Jesus' sake, Stephen |
#25
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Re: "CALVINISM: Sound Doctrine?"
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Patience brother - I haven't finished the study yet. As a matter of fact I will be dealing with John 6:44; John 17:2; Acts 2:39; and Acts 13:48 in my next Post under "Limited Atonement". I could have dealt with those verses under "Unconditional Election" (and maybe I should have), but please don't judge me (my motives or my methodology) until I have finished the complete study. And then you may judge me all you want - as you should (according to the Scriptures, of course!) Proverbs 18:13 He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him. Proverbs 16:20 He that handleth a matter wisely shall find good: and whoso trusteth in the LORD, happy is he. I also am dealing with approximately 50 other verses of Scripture having to do with the issue of the doctrine of "Limited" Atonement" that run from being - mildly, to moderately, to strongly against that doctrine. {Brother Stephen's "conservative guess" was pretty close. } I am NOT deliberately choosing "the middle road" between Calvinism and Arminianism. I am searching and studying the Scriptures - trying to rightly divide the word of God to determine what God has to say about this issue. I want to know "what is truth" - no matter what the outcome. If you knew me, you would know that there are many things that I fall short in; and I have many faults; but there is one thing I am not, and that is a middle of the roader - I despise the very thought of "the middle road". Too often the "middle road" is the "broad way"; the way that leads to compromise, accomodation, and concession. And anyone that knows me, knows that I am not one to "sell-out", "trade-off", or "copout". Neither am I satisfied with "half measures" or the "middle course" i.e. "middle ground". {An examination of many of my Posts on this Forum will demonstrate this fact - over and over again} I can assure you that if I neglect to cite a verse, it is not because I deliberately "pick and choose verses to fit (my) theology" - it's because I have either overlooked (missed) the verses or wasn't aware of them (as brother Stephen's Post #17 and my Post #18 on this Thread demonstrates). Give me some time brother. It took John Calvin years to work out his doctrine, I have only been into this study for a few months. Of course John didn't have the King James Bible to study from or SwordSearcher as a "study aid", so he did have a disadvantage! Last edited by George; 02-15-2009 at 10:38 AM. |
#26
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Acts 13:48 mentions no fore-ordination or eternal decree.
Also, George, you should probably cover the Eternal Sonship and "Eternal Begatting" of Christ (the latter being a calvinist error that says Jesus was begotten in Eternity). |
#27
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Re: " CALVINISM: Sound Doctrine?"
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Could you give me some quotes, or can you direct me to a source (sources) where this Calvinist doctrine is being promoted? If what you say is true (and I don't doubt your sincerity), then you have just added another facet to an already laborious and difficult study. However, since I am dealing with Calvinist "theology", I may have to deal with that issue also. Thanks for the heads up - I wasn't aware that some Calvinists have embraced this doctrine also. |
#28
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#29
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For Jesus' sake, Stephen |
#30
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JerryW, it's a difficult issue for many Calvinists, my best advice is to keep studying the KJV and pray for God's wisdom on this. You don't need that tulip, all you need is that KJV... I pray that God leads you into a better understanding of his truth. I had a good friend in college many years ago who was struggling with this all the time, I realize when you have been indoctrinated a certain way it's hard but we know that God is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. (II Peter 3:9)
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