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  #21  
Old 09-11-2008, 09:28 PM
Scott Simons
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Originally Posted by Beltfed_0331 View Post
Thank you for the thought. I am going to do more research on this topic. Initially, I do believe there is a difference or they would all be the same. I know there are many references with the single word spirit or Spirit. The word holy Spirit would reference the Holy Ghost as an individual being, and Holy Spirit a reference to the Triune Diety of Christ. I feel I need to study more to feel secure in my belkief on this topic.
The subject has a lot of ramifications. The King James Translators and well as it editors have their reasons. But little is said about it, I think we are all hesitating.

I do not think the holy Spirit is reference to the Holy Ghost. Although many do, I think when Holy Ghost is used it is refering to the third person of the Trinity.

holy Spirit could be a referal to

[KJ] And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh: Ezekiel 11:19
[KJ] Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel? Ezekiel 18:31
[KJ] A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. Ezekiel 36:26
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  #22  
Old 09-13-2008, 03:49 PM
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Re: Holy Ghost – Holy Spirit- holy Spirit – holy spirit

Aloha brother Scott,

Your quote:
Quote:
"The subject has a lot of ramifications."
I believe that you are making "a mountain out of a molehill" or possibly "straining at a gnat".

The Greek manuscripts (UNCIALS = All Capital Letters; MINUSCULES = Upper & Lower Case Letters) are of little or no "help" in determining why the King James Translators chose to capitalize or not to capitalize holy-Holy or spirit-Spirit.

I would not try to make some hard, fast, inflexible "rule" about their choices, because it is impossible (I checked out spirit-Spirit when I did my study on the Heart). Read the context of the verse (verses) in which you find the word, and let the "context" determine the meaning - NOT some prescribed inflexible "rule" that will only lead you into error.
  #23  
Old 09-14-2008, 05:03 PM
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I think that there is a reason for every thing that is written in this glorious Book of books. The reason will not contradict any other teachings of the Bible, so looking for something to get all abuzz about is useless. Personally I don't know why these words are the way they are. Knowing the answer to this question will not change what I believe, so I am not to worried about it. Is there something to be gained by understanding why the secretaries (some call them the translators) of God's Words chose to write these Words in the way that they did? I think so. But I, myself, can only attest to the fact that I haven't a clue on this one. Why did Lot offer his daughters to the filthy sodomites in Sodom? And why did God still call him a righteous man (likely because he still believed God and God accounted it to him as righteousness). One can always find things in the Bible to question, but we should be careful which ones we choose to get all bent out of shape about. (2 Timothy 2:23, Titus 3:9)

Peace and Love,
Stephen
  #24  
Old 09-14-2008, 08:26 PM
Scott Simons
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Originally Posted by stephanos View Post
I think that there is a reason for every thing that is written in this glorious Book of books. The reason will not contradict any other teachings of the Bible, so looking for something to get all abuzz about is useless. Personally I don't know why these words are the way they are. Knowing the answer to this question will not change what I believe, so I am not to worried about it. Is there something to be gained by understanding why the secretaries (some call them the translators) of God's Words chose to write these Words in the way that they did? I think so. But I, myself, can only attest to the fact that I haven't a clue on this one. Why did Lot offer his daughters to the filthy sodomites in Sodom? And why did God still call him a righteous man (likely because he still believed God and God accounted it to him as righteousness). One can always find things in the Bible to question, but we should be careful which ones we choose to get all bent out of shape about. (2 Timothy 2:23, Titus 3:9)

Peace and Love,
Stephen

That's cool, but revsions bible change Holy Ghost to Holy Spirit is that ok?

They use to say that the King James did it because Ghost and Spirit because they didn't know any better.

However the King James does use holy Spirit and Holy Spirit, there is a reason and it is amazing that little thought and discussion is done on this.

I do think that the implications are profound, but I am not sure either. I was hoping some the higher heads would have something more definitive so as a reasoning can arise.
What is the difference, surly there is a reason that is not out of our reasoning and that faith can come out of it.
I know the changes by preversion versions have there reason what it there reasoning.

Not only do they do that but they also remove holy from Holy Chost.

I just have a hard time believing there is no blessing in the understanding of this issue.

It is not like a question from bibical events that arises, like Lot, but it is a translational issue, that deals this the Godhead.

The hearing of the word that faith arises from, is it a weighter matter of faith?
  #25  
Old 09-14-2008, 10:24 PM
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Psalms 31:5 Into thine hand I commit my spirit: thou hast redeemed me, O LORD God of truth.

John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 5:9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)

2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

1 Peter 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

1 John 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

1 John 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.


These are the verses that contain Truth and Spirit within them. I think this is important to help us to distinguish that there is a difference between the Spirit in Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, and the spirit of truth. Now webster's 1828 dictionary says this about 'spirit'

SPIR'IT, n. L. spiritus, from spiro, to breathe, to blow. The primary sense is to rush or drive.

1. Primarily, wind; air in motion; hence, breath. All bodies have spirits and pneumatical parts within them. This sense is now unusual.

2. Animal excitement, or the effect of it; life; ardor; fire; courage; elevation or vehemence of mind. The troops attacked the enemy with great spirit. The young man has the spirit of youth. He speaks or act with spirit. Spirits, in the plural, is used in nearly a like sense. The troops began to recover their spirits.

3. Vigor of intellect; genius. His wit, his beauty and his spirit. The noblest spirit or genius cannot deserve enough of mankind to pretend to the esteem of heroic virtue.

4. Temper; disposition of mind, habitual or temporary; as a man of a generous spirit, or of a revengeful spirit; the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit. Let us go to the house of God in the spirit of prayer.

5. The soul of man; the intelligent, immaterial and immortal part of human beings. See Soul. the spirit shall return to God that gave it. Eceles. 12.

6. An immaterial intelligent substance. Spirit is a substance in which thinking, knowing, doubting, and a power of moving do subsist. Hence,

7. An immaterial intelligent being. By which he went and preached to the spirit in prison. I Pet. 3. God is a spirit. John 4.

8. Turn of mind; temper; occasions; state of the mind. A perfect judge will read each work of wit, with the same spirit that its author writ.

9. Powers of mind distinct from the body. In spirit perhaps he also saw Rich Mexico, the seat of Montezume.

10. Sentiment; perception. You spirit is too true, your fears too certain.

11. Eager desire; disposition of mind excited and directed to a particular object. God has made a spirit of building succeed a spirit of pulling down.


12. A person of activity; a man of life, vigor or enterprise. The watery kingdom is no bar to stop the foreign spirits, but they come.

13. Persons distinguished by qualities of the mind. Such spirits as he desired to please, such would I choose for my judges.

14. Excitement of mind; animation; cheerfulness; usually in the plural. We found our friend in very good spirits. He has a great flow of spirits. -To sing thy praise, would heaven my breath prolong, Infusing spirits worthy such a song.

15. Life or strength of resemblance; essential qualities; as, to set off the face in its true spirit. The copy has not the spirit of the original.

16. Something eminently pure and refined. Nor doth the eye itself, that most pure spirit of sense, behold itself.

17. That which hath power or energy; the quality of any substance which manifest life, activity, or the power of strongly affecting other bodies; as the spirit of wine or of any liquor.

18. A strong, pungent or stimulation liquor, usually obtained by distillation, as rum, brandy, gin, whiskey. In America, spirit, used without other words explanatory of its meaning, signifies the liquor distilled from cane-juice, or rum. We say, new spirit, or old spirit, Jamaica spirit, &c.

19. An apparition; a ghost.

20. The renewed nature of man. Matt 26. Gal. 5.

21. The influences of the Holy Spirit. Matt. 22.

However, these definitions are not from the Holy Bible. One must compare spiritual with spiritual. So read these with a grain of salt. It would be good to look at the context of each usage of the words in question to see which is which. This would take quite some time since there are 456 instances of spirit in the Holy Bible, and 108 of ghost.

Just my twocents(tm).

Peace and Love,
Stephen
  #26  
Old 09-20-2008, 05:13 AM
Scott Simons
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[QUOTE][QUOTE]

Thanks for taking a shot at this Stephen. I did notice the perversion versions do use ghost in some instances, I guess they didn't know that spirit and ghost is the same thing.
I don't think that studying Holy Ghost and Holy Spirit is strain a gnat, but would be closer to a weightier matter of faith and mercy.
I do notice that many King James readers would write Holy Spirit rather than Holy Ghost even though Holy Ghost is used in 89 verses and Holy Spirit once, I think that is curious and a possible infection past on by perversion versions.

Last edited by Scott Simons; 09-20-2008 at 05:18 AM.
  #27  
Old 09-22-2008, 11:10 AM
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Why Holy Ghost?

The words ‘spirit, Spirit and Ghost’ are all translations of the same Greek word ‘pneuma’. The KJV uses Ghost 90 times. Many have wondered why they used Ghost instead of spirit. Today the word ‘ghost’ connotes a disembodied spirit. However, in the time of the translation it did not have reference to a disembodied spirit.

Originally ghost came from the word ghuest, meaning a guest. (Ghuest itself was derived from the old English ‘gast’, the Old Saxon ‘gest’, and the Old High German ‘geist’.) In passage of time usage changed ghuest to ghost. However, it still retained the meaning of a guest when the KJV was translated. By using ghost in reference to the Holy Spirit, the translators emphasised that the Spirit is a guest. What then is the Holy Ghost? He is the Holy Guest, the one who makes His abode in the heart of the believer. Did not our Lord say that He would not leave us without a Comforter? As host to such a wondrous Guest, we ought not to grieve Him, but cultivate fellowship with the Holy Ghost or Holy Guest.

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  #28  
Old 09-22-2008, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by strongmeat View Post
Why Holy Ghost?

The words ‘spirit, Spirit and Ghost’ are all translations of the same Greek word ‘pneuma’. The KJV uses Ghost 90 times. Many have wondered why they used Ghost instead of spirit. Today the word ‘ghost’ connotes a disembodied spirit. However, in the time of the translation it did not have reference to a disembodied spirit.

Originally ghost came from the word ghuest, meaning a guest. (Ghuest itself was derived from the old English ‘gast’, the Old Saxon ‘gest’, and the Old High German ‘geist’.) In passage of time usage changed ghuest to ghost. However, it still retained the meaning of a guest when the KJV was translated. By using ghost in reference to the Holy Spirit, the translators emphasised that the Spirit is a guest. What then is the Holy Ghost? He is the Holy Guest, the one who makes His abode in the heart of the believer. Did not our Lord say that He would not leave us without a Comforter? As host to such a wondrous Guest, we ought not to grieve Him, but cultivate fellowship with the Holy Ghost or Holy Guest.

strongmeat
Interesting info friend. Thanks for posting, strongmeat (odd name I might add...). Oh and welcome to the forums.

Peace and Love,
Stephen
  #29  
Old 09-27-2008, 09:07 PM
Scott Simons
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Originally Posted by strongmeat View Post
Why Holy Ghost?

The words ‘spirit, Spirit and Ghost’ are all translations of the same Greek word ‘pneuma’. The KJV uses Ghost 90 times. Many have wondered why they used Ghost instead of spirit. Today the word ‘ghost’ connotes a disembodied spirit. However, in the time of the translation it did not have reference to a disembodied spirit.

Quote:
Originally ghost came from the word ghuest, meaning a guest. (Ghuest itself was derived from the old English ‘gast’, the Old Saxon ‘gest’, and the Old High German ‘geist’.) In passage of time usage changed ghuest to ghost. However, it still retained the meaning of a guest when the KJV was translated. By using ghost in reference to the Holy Spirit, the translators emphasised that the Spirit is a guest. What then is the Holy Ghost?
He is the Holy Guest, the one who makes His abode in the heart of the believer. Did not our Lord say that He would not leave us without a Comforter? As host to such a wondrous Guest, we ought not to grieve Him, but cultivate fellowship with the Holy Ghost or Holy Guest.

strongmeat
What is yet address then is why did the translator use Holy Spirit, then in Luke 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
If they where using Ghost instead of Spirit for your reasoning the mystery is why Holy Spirit, holy Spirit, and holy spirit?
  #30  
Old 09-29-2008, 07:15 AM
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"Ghost" does not mean "Guest". That is not only unbiblical, but an unscientific use of etymology.

Also, there are quite a number of times when the word "spirit" lowercase from 1611 is now "Spirit" capital in the KJB today, and vice versa. I have done research on this issue in my book, a draft is available on my website.
 

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