Doctrine Discussion about matters of the faith.

 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-02-2009, 04:44 PM
Jassy's Avatar
Jassy Jassy is offline
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 299
Default Love & Race

I have a question regarding 2 different races marrying.

I know a married couple where one is black and one is white - and they love each other and, most of all, they love God. The Lord is FIRST in their marriage.

Another Christian friend of mine says that is totally UNbiblical - that God DIVIDED the races and never wanted intermarriage.

In these days of the internet, with people meeting online, it's much more likely that this may happen. Is it wrong?

Can anyone address this topic and tell me what the truth is?

Jassy
  #2  
Old 06-02-2009, 04:51 PM
Diligent's Avatar
Diligent Diligent is offline
Forum Administrator
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Oklahoma, USA.
Posts: 641
Default

http://av1611.com/forums/showthread.php?t=349
  #3  
Old 06-02-2009, 05:20 PM
Jassy's Avatar
Jassy Jassy is offline
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 299
Default

Thanks brother Brandon,

I didn't think of looking for it under the topic of "intermarriage" - DUH to me! LOL That thread was very helpful and answers my question.

Jassy
  #4  
Old 06-02-2009, 05:21 PM
greenbear's Avatar
greenbear greenbear is offline
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Ohio
Posts: 492
Default

Hi, Jassy.

Race is not the correct term. The human race is made up of 70 nations which are descendants of Noah's sons (Gen 10). All nations are a part of the human race. I think the concept of humanity being comprised of different races comes from Helene Blavatsky (Theosophical Society)/ Darwin (Theory of Evolution). I believe this idea has it's roots in occultism.

Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Nationality isn't an issue, at least in the church age.

H. Blavatsky, The Secret Doctrine, the Synthesis of Science, Religion and Philosophy,

In the second volume of The Secret Doctrine, dedicated to anthroprogenesis, Blavatsky presents a theory of the gradual evolution of physical humanity over a timespan of millions of years.

The steps in this evolution are called rootraces, seven in all. Current humanity mainly consists of the fifth such rootrace. Earlier rootraces exhibited completely different characteristics: physical bodies first appearing in the second rootrace and sexual characteristics in the third.

The designation aryans appears as a subgroup of the fifth rootrace, which comprises the vast majority of present humanity[citation needed].

"Some detractors have emphasized passages and footnotes that claim some peoples to be less fully human or spiritual than the "Aryans"."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Secret_Doctrine

Last edited by greenbear; 06-02-2009 at 05:47 PM.
  #5  
Old 06-02-2009, 10:32 PM
Jassy's Avatar
Jassy Jassy is offline
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 299
Default

Thanks sister Jen (greenbear):

I appreciate the correction. I didn't mean to use the wrong terminology - just wasn't sure what the correct terminology was. I'm glad to be corrected and I will think of it biblically now.

God has no barriers in regards to appearances. I've always loved 1 Samuel 16:7 because it shows how the LORD looks at people:
"But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart."
I know that the LORD doesn't look down on people with disabilities either. One interesting sidebar... the government has now added "sexual orientation" to their list of things that people can't be discriminated against for. However, the Bible is clear that that abomination doesn't belong with those others.

Jassy
  #6  
Old 06-02-2009, 11:34 PM
tonybones2112's Avatar
tonybones2112 tonybones2112 is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 754
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jassy View Post
Thanks sister Jen (greenbear):

I appreciate the correction. I didn't mean to use the wrong terminology - just wasn't sure what the correct terminology was. I'm glad to be corrected and I will think of it biblically now.

God has no barriers in regards to appearances. I've always loved 1 Samuel 16:7 because it shows how the LORD looks at people:
"But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart."
I know that the LORD doesn't look down on people with disabilities either. One interesting sidebar... the government has now added "sexual orientation" to their list of things that people can't be discriminated against for. However, the Bible is clear that that abomination doesn't belong with those others.

Jassy
The most bitter racists in all history were the OT Jews. Arise Peter, kill and eat. Hey Lord, I will touch NO unclean thing. The Jews, to themselves, were clean, the whole world to them was unclean. A Gentile woman came to Christ, Lord of all, and begged for her daughter to be released from the torment of the demon. Jesus said it is not meet to give the children's(Jews) bread to dogs. Those are Jesus Christ's words, not Adolf Hitler's or Farrikan's.

"But now" there is no difference in Jew and Gentile, all are equally damned in unbelief and equally saved in Christ. Hatred of blacks is found in some commentator's wresting of Genesis 9 to their own destruction. In Time Past Jesus Christ gave instruction to the 12 to go ye not unto the ways of the Gentiles. Through Paul Jesus Christ now says there is no difference. The "three races of man" are not Negro, Caucasian, and Oriental, but:

1Co 10:32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:

Grace and peace friends

Tony
  #7  
Old 06-03-2009, 10:32 AM
kns215's Avatar
kns215 kns215 is offline
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 29
Default

When I was backslidden (no Bible reading, no prayer, etc), I had a "Christian" (backslidden one) boyfriend who is from outside of my nation. My parents disagreed, of course, and so did my siblings. I did admit that it was sin to disobey my parents but did not admit how it is scripturally wrong to marry someone outside of my nation. I, too, thought that it was OK to marry someone outside of my nation as we are not Israelites. And after couple years of on-going argument between my family and me, my older sister sent me what she called "final warning" (praise God for allowing her wisdom and courage to tell me the truth!) to this issue.

Here is what she wrote to me (it was about 4 pages long but "personal" information has been taken out ):

Quote:
Scripturally:

- God created all races and nations (Is 42:5; 44:24; 45:11,12).
- God divided them and segregated them on purpose (Acts 17:26; Deut 32:8) - God set boundaries and separated nations so that man can find God and get saved. Races/nations are not the same in their genes and chromosomes, only in their blood (Acts 17:26).
- God’s way has always been that of separation/segregation and not integration which is man’s way and the way of the world today.

- The following are some Bible examples of segregation:
  • Distinction from old garment and new garment (Mark 2) – you don’t put a new piece of cloth on an old garment
  • Distinction between the seeds planted (tares separated from the good seed in Mtt 13)

Although there is no difference/regard to race in the body of Christ (we are all saved) – the reference is that of a spiritual application. But marriage is physical.

In Genesis 26: 34,35 And Esau was forty years old when he took to wife Judith the daughter of Beeri the Hittite, and Bashemath the daughter of Elon the Hittite: Which were a grief of mind unto Isaac and to Rebekah.

Gen 28:6 When Esau saw that Isaac had blessed Jacob, and sent him away to Padanaram, to take him a wife from thence; and that as he blessed him he gave him a charge, saying, Thou shalt not take a wife of the daughers of Canaan;
7 And that Jacob obeyed his father and his mother, and was gone to Padanaram;
8 And Esau seeing that the daughters of Canaan pleased not Isaac his father;

Ephesians 6:1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.
2 Honour thy father and mother; which is the first commandment with promise;


Practically:

- Interracial marriages are also not practically good.

- The following are some of the many problems/struggles to be cautious of as two different cultures will be joined in marriage and it should make one pause to make sure of what is being done, especially if one is not married yet:
  • Different cultural background (including language, customs, etc...)
  • Usually, the woman will have to follow the man/please the man with regard to his cultural background and there’ll have to be some compromises
  • (God told women(wives) to obey their husband, not husband obeying wife. God did not make women to rule the house but men.)
  • The prejudices the children will have to face
  • Even people who come from very similar backgrounds will have many difficulties. Paul said that those who marry "shall have trouble in the flesh" (1 Cor. 7:28). But the greater the beginning differences, the greater the struggles to work as one

- That is why for example, we have a Korean Bible Baptist Church because the ways, language, customs of Korean people are different than that of other saved cultural groups

- The majority of people who’ve known people in an intercultural marriage can attest to the problems and disillusionment of happiness
I, of course, don't believe that those already married couples have to divorce and find themselves a new spouse within their nations. However, if one is not married yet, I think one has to ask self if marrying someone outside of his/her nation is really God's will.

No matter how long one has been living in foreign country, the fact that God divided nations is true and therefore "cultural differences" cannot be ignored.
So, for me, I'd rather stay unmarried and wait for God to send someone for me according to His will, rather than marry someone outside my nation and deal with that "cultural differences", etc.
  #8  
Old 06-03-2009, 02:57 PM
George's Avatar
George George is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Broken Arrow, Oklahoma
Posts: 891
Default Re: "Love & Race"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jassy View Post
I have a question regarding 2 different races marrying.

I know a married couple where one is black and one is white - and they love each other and, most of all, they love God. The Lord is FIRST in their marriage.

Another Christian friend of mine says that is totally UNbiblical - that God DIVIDED the races and never wanted intermarriage.

In these days of the internet, with people meeting online, it's much more likely that this may happen. Is it wrong?

Can anyone address this topic and tell me what the truth is?

Jassy

Aloha sister Jassy,

Most of the "ideas" of not marrying people of another "color", "race", or "culture" come from either mixing up God's requirements for the Israelites - not to marry the Pagan idol-worshiping women of the land of Canaan {requirements meant for the Nation of Israel, i.e. Jews/Hebrews - NOT Christians, who are all brothers and sisters in Christ, regardless of their race, culture, or color of their skin.}, or some "Christian" pastors and teachers teaching discrimination against certain people because of their own (pastors/teachers) "cultural" upbringing.

This is just one more issue meant to DIVIDE Christian brethren from each other. Please check out this Thread on "Interracial marriage" on the A.V. 1611 Bible Forums in addition to the "Thread" that Brandon listed:

http://av1611.com/forums/showthread....1530#post11530

There was an acrimonious exchange on this Thread between myself and a young woman (who was a new believer) who had accepted the teachings of brother Peter Ruckman on this issue and who then took those teachings to the extreme (as many of brother Ruckman's followers sometimes do).

Lets examine the issue:

Although Jacob married his "kin" - his choice for a wife (RACHEL) was an idol-worshipper ("purity" of color, race, & culture didn't seem to matter) and please NOTICE: God chose the Priest's (Levi) and the King's (Judah) from the offspring of Jacob & LEAH (Jacob's SECOND WIFE - and NOT the wife of his choosing!).

That's the Bible record, do you think that we Christian men should have "two wives" at once (just in case things don't work out with the first? ). Do you see how someone can twist and wrest the Scriptures to their own destruction?

Joseph married Asenath outside of his "race" & "culture" (with no condemnation from God).

Moses married Zipporah outside of his "race" & "culture" (with no condemnation from God).

Salmon (Boaz's father) married Rachab (an harlot!) outside of his "race" & "culture" (with no condemnation from God).

Boaz married Ruth outside of his "race" & "culture" - (a Moabitess, who had a Book in the Bible named after her - One of only two Books in the Bible named after a woman - imagine that!).

David married Bathsheba (within his "race" & "culture") - for whom he committed adultery and murder (and yet God still gave the kingdom to Solomon - their offspring).

The Prophet Hosea was commanded by the Lord to marry an adulteress (an harlot) - would that mean that Christian men should do the same? You see the trouble people get in when they don't "discern" between the "Jew", the "Gentile", and the "church"?

THE CHURCH OF GOD:

Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.


Colossians 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.
8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.


Do you think that God cares that much about the color of a person's skin, or their "race" (whatever that is), or their "culture", as much as He cares about their heart, and their soul? I trow not!

This "teaching" about "races" and "cultures" is NOT sound Biblical doctrine for this age that we live in. It was sound doctrine for the Jews/Hebrews/Israelites when they came into the land of Canaan after they conquered it.

Please read my Posts in the Thread I gave you the link to.

"Mixed" - cultural and "race" marriages are not EASY, there are a lot of "problems" and "pitfalls", some that are common to all marriages, and some that are specific to a "mixed" marriage. But all of those problems and pitfalls stem from cultural and racial prejudices and biases - NOT from God's "disapproval" of of the joining together of two "different" people from two "different" cultural and "racial" backgrounds.

I speak on this subject with some authority, since I have been married to a Filipina woman (of another "race"; another "color"; and another culture, and in addition who was 17 years of age when we married, and was a Catholic to boot!) for over 48 years now, and God has blessed our union with seven children; 17 grandchildren; and three great-grandchildren.

If it's "TRUE LOVE" based in God's word it will "work out" [Romans 8:28]. If it's not - all of the "SAFEGUARD'S" (the correct "color", "race", and "culture") in the world won't matter!
  #9  
Old 06-03-2009, 03:19 PM
kns215's Avatar
kns215 kns215 is offline
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 29
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by George View Post
Aloha sister Jassy,

Most of the "ideas" of not marrying people of another "color", "race", or "culture" come from either mixing up God's requirements for the Israelites - not to marry the Pagan idol-worshiping women of the land of Canaan {requirements meant for the Nation of Israel, i.e. Jews/Hebrews - NOT Christians, who are all brothers and sisters in Christ, regardless of their race, culture, or color of their skin.}, or some "Christian" pastors and teachers teaching discrimination against certain people because of their own (pastors/teachers) "cultural" upbringing.

This is just one more issue meant to DIVIDE Christian brethren from each other. Please check out this Thread on "Interracial marriage" on the A.V. 1611 Bible Forums in addition to the "Thread" that Brandon listed:

http://av1611.com/forums/showthread....1530#post11530

There was an acrimonious exchange on this Thread between myself and a young woman (who was a new believer) who had accepted the teachings of brother Peter Ruckman on this issue and who then took those teachings to the extreme (as many of brother Ruckman's followers sometimes do).

Lets examine the issue:

Although Jacob married his "kin" - his choice for a wife (RACHEL) was an idol-worshipper ("purity" of color, race, & culture didn't seem to matter) and please NOTICE: God chose the Priest's (Levi) and the King's (Judah) from the offspring of Jacob & LEAH (Jacob's SECOND WIFE - and NOT the wife of his choosing!).

That's the Bible record, do you think that we Christian men should have "two wives" at once (just in case things don't work out with the first? ). Do you see how someone can twist and wrest the Scriptures to their own destruction?

Joseph married Asenath outside of his "race" & "culture" (with no condemnation from God).

Moses married Zipporah outside of his "race" & "culture" (with no condemnation from God).

Salmon (Boaz's father) married Rachab (an harlot!) outside of his "race" & "culture" (with no condemnation from God).

Boaz married Ruth outside of his "race" & "culture" - (a Moabitess, who had a Book in the Bible named after her - One of only two Books in the Bible named after a woman - imagine that!).

David married Bathsheba (within his "race" & "culture") - for whom he committed adultery and murder (and yet God still gave the kingdom to Solomon - their offspring).

The Prophet Hosea was commanded by the Lord to marry an adulteress (an harlot) - would that mean that Christian men should do the same? You see the trouble people get in when they don't "discern" between the "Jew", the "Gentile", and the "church"?

THE CHURCH OF GOD:

Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.


Colossians 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.
8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.


Do you think that God cares that much about the color of a person's skin, or their "race" (whatever that is), or their "culture", as much as He cares about their heart, and their soul? I trow not!

This "teaching" about "races" and "cultures" is NOT sound Biblical doctrine for this age that we live in. It was sound doctrine for the Jews/Hebrews/Israelites when they came into the land of Canaan after they conquered it.

Please read my Posts in the Thread I gave you the link to.

"Mixed" - cultural and "race" marriages are not EASY, there are a lot of "problems" and "pitfalls", some that are common to all marriages, and some that are specific to a "mixed" marriage. But all of those problems and pitfalls stem from cultural and racial prejudices and biases - NOT from God's "disapproval" of of the joining together of two "different" people from two "different" cultural and "racial" backgrounds.

I speak on this subject with some authority, since I have been married to a Filipina woman (of another "race"; another "color"; and another culture, and in addition who was 17 years of age when we married, and was a Catholic to boot!) for over 48 years now, and God has blessed our union with seven children; 17 grandchildren; and three great-grandchildren.

If it's "TRUE LOVE" based in God's word it will "work out" [Romans 8:28]. If it's not - all of the "SAFEGUARD'S" (the correct "color", "race", and "culture") in the world won't matter!
Read the link of the other tread, and thank you, now I am clear!

I guess with English as my 2nd language, it'll not be easy to have a spouse who doesn't speak my language for me. And that perhaps is why I strongly disagreed to the idea of interracial marriage. (because I made a judgement based on my situation)

Anyhow, thank you everyone for taking time to answer.

Thank God for clearing up another question I have!

Last edited by kns215; 06-03-2009 at 03:22 PM. Reason: "grammar" mistake :P
  #10  
Old 06-03-2009, 04:02 PM
JaeByrd's Avatar
JaeByrd JaeByrd is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Oklahoma, USA
Posts: 156
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kns215 View Post
I guess with English as my 2nd language, it'll not be easy to have a spouse who doesn't speak my language for me. And that perhaps is why I strongly disagreed to the idea of interracial marriage. (because I made a judgement based on my situation)
You underlined "for me". I know of several families where they speak the language of his birthplace, the language or her birth place, and American English all in the same house and each learned for the other. They have no more and no less problems than the folks who marry from the same HIGHSCHOOL! And that is about as Culturally the same as you can get growing up in the same town/area/lifestyle/financial bracket with shared formative years memories.

The majority of the marital issues I see stem not from race or cultural differences, but from stepping out of our roles as Biblically laid out: Husband as head of the house loving his wife/wife being in submission and reverencing her husband. And that happens in ANY marriage, not just the racially/culturally different ones.
 

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

The King James Bible Page SwordSearcher Bible Software

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:32 AM.

Powered by vBulletin®, Copyright vBulletin Solutions Inc.

Website © AV1611.Com.
Posts represent only the opinions of users of this forum and do not necessarily represent the opinions of the webmaster.

Software for Believing Bible Study

 
Contact Us AV1611.Com