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Old 08-10-2008, 11:54 PM
gophgetter
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Default Who Was The First One To Teach "Once Saved, Always Saved"?

Greetings Family.

If I were to ask everyone in the group, "Who was the first one to teach once saved, always saved?", no doubt I would get different answers. Most would probably say Jesus. Others might say Paul. If you didn't believe once saved, always saved, you might say Augustine or John Calvin. It might surprise you to learn that the first one to teach this doctrine goes back farther than Jesus. Before I give you my answer, let's examine what the doctrine of "once saved, always saved" really means.

The doctrine of "once saved, always saved" basically teaches that once a person is has accepted Christ, they are saved and they can never lose their salvation. To expound on this a little further, you have been given eternal life and you can never lose it. In the 5 points of Calvinism this principle is called "the perseverance of the saints". In other words, You have been predestinated and it is guaranteed that you will persevere to the end.

So with this in mind, let's look in the scrptures and see who was the first one to teach this. Who was the first one to teach that you can have eternal life and never lose it? Are ya ready kids?

Gen. 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, ye shall not surely die:

There you have it. It was none other that the serpent. He was the first one to teach that you can never lose eternal life. Adam and Eve were not created to die, they were created to live forever and to have dominion over the earth. But the Serpent robbed them of their life through deciet and caused them to diobey God. This message continued to be associated with false prophets. Notice the following verses in the Old Covenant.

Jer. 7:3 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, Amend your ways and your doings, and I will cause you to dwell in this place.

7:4 Trust ye not in lying words, saying, The temple of the LORD, The temple of the LORD, The temple of the LORD, are these.
7:5 For if ye throughly amend your ways and your doings; if ye throughly execute judgment between a man and his neighbour;

7:6 If ye oppress not the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, and shed not innocent blood in this place, neither walk after other gods to your hurt:7:7 Then will I cause you to dwell in this place, in the land that I gave to your fathers, for ever and ever. 7:8 Behold, ye trust in lying words, that cannot profit.

7:9 Will ye steal, murder, and commit adultery, and swear falsely, and burn incense unto Baal, and walk after other gods whom ye know not;
7:10 And come and stand before me in this house, which is called by my name, and say, We are delivered to do all these abominations?

Do not these last two verses sound like a familiar message? Haven't you heard preachers say "You are in God's hand and it doesn't matter what you do or how far you stray away, your salvation is secure"? This message continued not only through the days of Israel but carried over into the days of Jesus and the Apostles.

1 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

Just like there were false prophets in the Old Covenant, Peter says there will be false teachers among us. What will be one of the messages ,or damnable heresies, of these false teachers?

1 Peter 2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
2:13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;
2:14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
2:18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.

You will notice in verse 19, that they promise people liberty. Can we really say that we have been made free by Jesus and still be a slave to sin? Sounds like I can hear the sound of a hiss when I say that.
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Old 08-11-2008, 11:13 AM
peopleoftheway peopleoftheway is offline
 
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If I cannot do good works to get saved, then how can I do bad works to be unsaved?

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."John 5:24

"These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." 1st John 5:13

"Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee." Hebrews 13:5

God Promised me Eternal Life, God cannot lie!! I can lose fellowship and Joy of Salvation, which I have done when I was backslidden for many years, I walked independent of God, wanting to go my own way, I Never stopped believing in God, I stopped believing in myself. Now for a MAN to come along and tell me, that because I had forsaken My LORD and Heavenly Father for that number of years, that he has forsaken me??? Many wonderful Christians today were backsliders at one time or another in their life, NOBODY IS PERFECT! The only perfect man was Crucified for our imperfections and that man Is Jesus Christ, the same yesterday and today and forever. My Salvation was not of my own doing, Jesus saved me, My salvation was a gift from God,

"...the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life" —Romans 5:18

therefore God cannot take it back or that would make him a liar.
"In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began" Titus 1:2
Who is to say that the lessons that I learned when I was a backslidden believer were not from God? And I learned many! My LORD Jesus Christ loves me and NO MAN! can affect my salvation.

John 10:28, "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand."

I will always sin, anyone that says they wont are Liars, But at the same time that does not give me a license to sin, all believers will give account of themselves before Christ someday and some will suffer more loss than others.
You can NEVER lose something that was given as a free Gift in the first place

Ephesians 2:8,9 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."

If salvation can be lost through our own sinful words, deeds, attitudes and actions then self righteousness is part of salvation

"For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth." Romans 10:3-4
The above verse condems self righteous thinking.

I am a wicked sinner, Jesus Christ saved me, I am washed in his precious Blood and no MAN can tell me different!

In the Name of my LORD Jesus Christ
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Old 08-11-2008, 11:35 PM
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George George is offline
 
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Default Re: Who Was The First One To Teach "Once Saved, Always Saved"?

Re:"gophgetter"
Quote:
Who Was The First One To Teach "Once Saved, Always Saved"?
"peopleoftheway"
Quote:
I am a wicked sinner, Jesus Christ saved me, I am washed in his precious Blood and no MAN can tell me different!
Amen brother (peopleoftheway),

It always make me wonder WHY people ("Christians") WANT to LOSE their salvation? Is it because they don't "think" that God can KEEP us? Or is because they think they are GOOD enough to KEEP their own salvation?

Once we are "eternally" saved, we do NOT have a "License" to sin (without consequences):[Romans 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.] But the consequences are never loss of salvation. If we sin we may suffer loss - loss of wealth; loss of health; loss of a loved one; loss of our own life; loss of future rewards; etc.; etc. But NOT the loss of the ETERNAL GIFT of God! [Romans 6:23; John 10:28; John 17:2-3; Titus 1:2; 1John 2:25; 1John 5:11-13; 1John 5:20]

Why would someone (a "Christian") believe that they can LOSE this GIFT of ETERNAL LIFE? I believe the core of this heresy is PRIDE (The Pride of Life). WHY would someone (anyone) "think" that IF they CANNOT EARN Eternal Life - then WHY would they ever "think" that they could possibly KEEP IT?

Romans 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

"Who shall deliver me"? Can I deliver myself? Of course NOT! Is there something that I can DO to KEEP my salvation - when Christ DID IT ALL for me (already)? These people who believe that they can lose their salvation - UNDERESTIMATE our God and OVERESTIMATE their own "goodness" and abilities!

Romans 8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels,
nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

2 Timothy 1:12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that HE IS ABLE TO KEEP that which I have committed unto him against that day.

IF He is NOT Able to Keep me- Then, I'm a "goner" (because after 50 years of being in Him, I at least know myself well enough to know that: For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.[
Romans 7:18]). But, IF HE IS ABLE TO KEEP ME - I'm just as good as inside "the house" (with the "door" safely shut behind me)!

Job 19:25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:
27 Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.

I can tell you of a truth, that if Jesus Christ's work on this earth and upon the cross is not "sufficient" for ALL of our sins (before we got saved; since we got save; and up until we either "fall asleep" in Him or He calls us all home), then NO ONE will make it! But I know better - because
I also know whom my REDEEMER is. And it certainly is NOT ME!
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Old 08-12-2008, 12:05 AM
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Biblestudent Biblestudent is offline
 
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Once saved, always saved:

Romans 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?


Romans 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.


Who was the first one who taught "once saved, always saved"?

Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;


I'm sure the serpent in Genesis 3 didn't.

1. At that time when the serpent spoke to Eve, Eve hadn't any sin to be saved from.
2. The serpent denied death, and he didn't teach salvation.
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Old 08-12-2008, 01:38 AM
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George George is offline
 
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Re: Once saved, always saved:

Aloha Biblestudent,

Agreed! And Amen!

"Gophgetter" is insinuating that we are either "False Prophets" or "False Teachers"; and that the "doctrine" that we believe in is "heresy" and comes from or "originated" with Satan! Not only that, but he then insults us by calling us "KIDS" on top of all of the rest of his inferring!

Quote:
"Just like there were false prophets in the Old Covenant, Peter says there will be false teachers among us. What will be one of the messages ,or damnable heresies, of these false teachers?"
Quote:
"Who was the first one to teach once saved, always saved?" . . . . So with this in mind, let's look in the scriptures and see who was the first one to teach this. Who was the first one to teach that you can have eternal life and never lose it? Are ya ready kids?" . . . . "There you have it. It was none other that the serpent. He was the first one to teach that you can never lose eternal life."
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Real men do not infer, insinuate, or use inuendo: "Real men say what they mean, and mean what they say." Are we "False Teachers"? Have we embraced a "damnable heresy"? Are we following "that old serpent - the Devil? I trow not! But "Gophgetter" is promoting a "damnable heresy" by inferring that the doctrine of eternal salvation is NOT from the God of the Bible, but from "the god of this world"!

In addition - We may be many things, but the one thing that none of us here on this Forum are - is KIDS!
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Old 08-12-2008, 05:10 AM
peopleoftheway peopleoftheway is offline
 
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George
You have a great understanding of the scriptures and likewise a great delivery of truth attained from the scripture. I am still but a "babe in Christ" and I study with a burning desire, not to find knowledge but to find "truth" and to know my LORD Jesus Christ better. What I have been shown through patience in his word is amazing and humbling. I actually feel physically sick when I hear or read about the teaching of lordship salvation and works salvation. It has taken the "Simplicity that is in Christ" and made it a wrested mess of heresy and my heart breaks for those that are getting caught up in that mess. I pray that the LORD Jesus Christ may open their eyes to how simple his Salvation is and how abundant his Love and Grace are FOREVER!
Biblestudent Amen Brother!
That verse you posted is One of my most favorite versus

Romans 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.


God Bless you Both


In My Saviour's name, The LORD Jesus Christ
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Old 08-12-2008, 05:28 AM
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I beleive we are saved only once and kept saved because the Bible tells us that our Lord Jesus is the Authour of Eternal Slavation

And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; Heb 5:9

so in reality Jesus would be the first to teach eternal salvation. That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. John 3:15
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Old 08-12-2008, 08:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by George View Post
"Real men say what they mean, and mean what they say."
Amen, Brother George!
In our church ministry, we see conflicts and problems springing up from those who would insinuate rather than saying exactly what they mean.
(Some, however, have the opinion that it may be culture-related, that is, Filipinos are not so "frank" as the Americans.)
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Old 08-12-2008, 08:31 AM
gophgetter
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Default Real Men?

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Originally Posted by George View Post
Re: Once saved, always saved:

Aloha Biblestudent,

Agreed! And Amen!

"Gophgetter" is insinuating that we are either "False Prophets" or "False Teachers"; and that the "doctrine" that we believe in is "heresy" and comes from or "originated" with Satan! Not only that, but he then insults us by calling us "KIDS" on top of all of the rest of his inferring!

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Real men do not infer, insinuate, or use inuendo: "Real men say what they mean, and mean what they say." Are we "False Teachers"? Have we embraced a "damnable heresy"? Are we following "that old serpent - the Devil? I trow not! But "Gophgetter" is promoting a "damnable heresy" by inferring that the doctrine of eternal salvation is NOT from the God of the Bible, but from "the god of this world"!

In addition - We may be many things, but the one thing that none of us here on this Forum are - is KIDS!
Greetings Brother George,

First let me apologize for "inferring" that you'll are kids. I never meant at all that anybody in this group was on the level of understanding of a little kid. I posted this post on another Bible Study group that was a little more lighthearted and that I had been a member of for quite some time. The reason that I put the words "Are ya ready kids?" in the post was because while I was typing it up, my kids were watching SpongeBob Squarepants at the sametime and that was in the background. Forgive me for being a little too playful with such a serious subject as salvation.

As far as inferring to anyone in this group as being a false prophet, I never did that. Since you want to start giving out qualifications of "real men", tell me what you think about a false accuser. The word for that type of person is listed in Rev. 12. Solomon tells us in the book of Proverbs that "He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him."
All I did was quote the scriptures about the messages that the false prophets of the Old and New Testament preached. I never directed those scriptures at anyone in this group. It's one thing to believe a false doctrine. It is quite another to preach it as a message to other people. That's what makes a person a false prophet. The next time you don't understand what I mean by something or who it is directed at, why don't you be "man" enough to ask me before you start throwing out accusations. By the way, these words are not written in anger but in love, not for destruction but for edification of all that are in this group.

Peace
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Old 08-12-2008, 09:47 AM
peopleoftheway peopleoftheway is offline
 
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Insinuating that one can "Lose" their salvation is in itself a false teaching. I don't care if you have been saved for X number of years or have a vast knowledge of scripture, read this book or that book by this man or that man. If you are truly Born again and have accepted Christ as you own personal Saviour, then thats it!
Sealed with the Holy Spirit Until He comes for us or calls us home. I stumble, I fall, I pick myself up with my Saviour's help. The changes in my life didn't happen overnight, with the strength that is in Christ Jesus I strive to become more like him through my attitudes and actions not works.
I take it gophgetter that you personally, are declaring that salvation can be lost? That in hand, we are essentially talking about lordship salvation here? That once saved always saved is a false teaching? If that is the case then you have just called your professed LORD and Saviour a false prophet.

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever BELIEVETH in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16

"My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand." John 10:29

"These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that YE HAVE ETERNAL LIFE,. . ." 1 John 5:13

". . . him that cometh to me I WILL IN NO WISE CAST OUT." John 6:37

Speaking regarding backslidden believers, Paul states this very important point

"For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: BUT HE HIMSELF SHALL BE SAVED; yet so as by fire." 1 Corinthians 3:11-15

Now most certainly I don't want to suffer this kind of loss when I stand before Christ and that is the Fear of the LORD that drew me back. But when I had no fellowship, didn't speak to anyone about my salvation, and rarely prayed when I was backslidden, did I lose that GIFT that Jesus gave me? was his righteousness that was imputed onto me taken away? Did the Saviour that was come to seek and save that which was lost cast me aside and forsake me? a resounding NO! springs forth. In our human frailty we make mistakes and sin.
You have children yourself, if they ran away from home, would your heart not break in two, and would you not rest until you had returned them home safely?
Then how much more does our Father in Heaven LOVE US!
"For we are MEMBERS OF HIS BODY, of his flesh, and of his bones." Ephesians 5:30
"If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: HE CANNOT DENY HIMSELF." 2 Timothy 2:13

With all Gods promises to SAVE US, KEEP US, and PRESERVE US, to say we can lose our salvation calls him a liar.
". . .he that BELIEVETH NOT GOD hath made him a LIAR; . . ." 1 John 5:10

Don't be confused by the simplicity that is in Salvation! And to bring to light your original topic of, "once saved always saved" teaching being of satan. I think my Friend you will find that the devil is behind the teaching that salvation can be lost!

"But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtlety, so your minds should be corrupted from THE SIMPLICITY that is in Christ." 2 Corinthians 11:3

Peter was saved because he followed Christ, he denied him, not once not twice but thrice! did Peter lose his salvation in that very moment the cock crew? Peter was backslidden and grieved until he was reassured by Jesus in the days after his resurrection. by simply being told FEED MY SHEEP! Therefore I FORGIVE YOU for denying me, now get back to work and Preach the Word!

and he went on and preached
Who are KEPT BY THE POWER OF GOD through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." 1 Peter 1:5

In the name of My LORD Jesus Christ.
 

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