Bible Versions Questions and discussion about the Bible version issue.

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Old 05-22-2008, 06:51 PM
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Default A Bible Believers Response to "King James Onlyism; A New Sect, by James Price

A Bible Believer’s Response to the book 'King James Onlyism: A New Sect'.

As many of you know, Dr. James D. Price, chairman and Old Testament editor of the New King James Version, and O.T. professor at Temple Baptist theological seminary in Chattanooga, Tennessee has written a 658 page book called 'King James Onlyism: A New Sect' in which he tries to prove that the King James Holy Bible is not the complete, preserved, inspired and infallible word of God.

In his opening page he correctly defines what he calls "this new doctrine" as the belief that "the King James Bible is the providentially preserved Word of God, and is actually the only and final authority in all matters of faith and practice for the English-speaking world today." He then goes on to say that during the early 1970's when he first heard of the King James Only idea that "I could not believe that anyone would advocate such a teaching."

Let it be clearly stated from the very beginning of my response to his book that Mr. Price's belief is that there does not exist today, nor has there ever existed anywhere on this earth, a complete Book containing all the inspired, infallible, providentially preserved and 100% true words of God. Mr. Price has no such Book to recommend to anyone and he knows it.

This is not to say nor to even imply that Mr. Price is therefore not a Christian. From what I know of him, I believe he is a true believer in the Lord Jesus Christ as being his only Lord God and Saviour from sin and hell. The Bible version issue is not a salvation issue. God can and obviously does save His people by means of hearing the gospel of salvation through the Lord Jesus Christ, who died on the cross as our Substitute and rose again from the dead to give us eternal life. This central truth is found even in the poorest of bible translations. I do not deny this, but affirm it to be true.

However it is an undeniable fact that Mr. Price and multitudes like him do not believe that God has fulfilled His promises to preserve all His words of truth in any single "book of the LORD" here on this earth today. This is the central issue discussed in his book and addressed by my response to it.

Throughout his book he presents what he thinks is the conservative, traditional view that ONLY the originals were inspired. He continually refers in a nebulous and undefined manner to "THE Hebrew and THE Greek" IN THE PRESENT TENSE as the only inspired word of God, apparently hoping that no one will notice that there is no such animal on the face of this earth, and there is wide and intense disagreement as to what "the originals" may or may not have said.

On page 2 he affirms the position he was taught at seminary by favorably referring to a quote from Henry C. Thiessen, a man he calls "a well-known conservative theologian" who wrote concerning the divine inspiration of Scripture: "Inspiration is affirmed ONLY of the autographs (the originals) of the Scriptures, not of any of the versions, whether ancient or modern, nor of any Hebrew or Greek manuscripts in existence, nor of any critical text known."

The logic and consistency of Mr. Price's arguments break down at every point and leave us with no complete and infallible Bible TODAY. He himself doesn’t follow nor believe the formal Westminster Confession he quotes from regarding the Inspiration and Preseration of Scripture. Yet he inconsistenly holds this up as his view regarding the Scriptures.

He quotes with approval the London Confession which is derived from the Westminster Confession of 1649 which says: “The Old Testament IN HEBREW, and the New Testament IN GREEK, being immediately inspired by God AND BY HIS CARE AND PROVIDENCE KEPT PURE IN ALL AGES, ARE therefore authentical; so as in all controversies of Religion, the Church is finally to appeal to them.”

It should be asked at this point that if Mr. Price really believes this great statement of faith, then why does he himself not believe that the true Old Testament text has been providentially preserved in the Hebrew? As we shall see, Mr. Price often sides with versions like the NIV, NASB, RSV, ESV and Holman Standard where these editors believe the Hebrew texts have been either corrupted or lost, and he instead supports the wildly variant readings taken from either the alleged Greek Septuagint, the Syriac, the Vulgate or just plain made up by men?

All these modern versions are put out by men who believe the Hebrew Scriptures have been corrupted in numerous places, and yet they don’t agree among themselves as to where nor how. You can see proof of this by consulting my articles on this subject at my website here: and here:

Mr. Price further reveals his obfuscation and poorly thought out position by continually saying things like he does on page five: “No translation is granted authority over THE Hebrew and Greek”. Mr. Price, WHICH Hebrew and WHICH “the” Greek are you referring to? Anyone can go to the footnotes of such modern versions as the NIV, RSV, ESV, and Holman Standard and see for themselves that they constantly refer to “Some Hebrew manuscripts read”, “two Hebrew mss. read”; “A few Hebrew mss. read”, “Dead Sea Scrolls read”, “Some Septuagint mss. read”; “a few late manuscripts of the Septuagint read”, “Many other Hebrew mss. read” etc.

As for “THE” Greek, anybody who has a rudimentary knowledge about the so called “science” of textual criticism, knows that there are at least 25 different printed Greek texts in existence, and many of these differ from the others anywhere from 3000 to over 7000 words for the New Testament alone, as documented by men like Dr. Donald Waite and Jack Moorman.

Following such Greek editions as Westcott and Hort, and the constantly changing Nestle-Aland critical texts, versions like the RSV have omitted some 40 entire verses from the N.T. text plus another 2000 words or so from other N.T. portions. Both the ever changing NASB and the NIV bracket or omit thousands of words that are found in the very NKJV that Mr. Price helped to translate and publish. The ESV omits even more entire verses from the N.T. than the NIV, but not as many as the previous RSV.

For an example of this textual confusion in the modern bibles, see my article about the new 2003 Holman Christian Standard Version.

None of the modern versions like the NKJV, NIV, NASB, ESV or Holman always follows the same Hebrew or Greek texts, and even when they do, the resultant translations are often radically different in meaning from the other ones. So where is this “THE Hebrew and THE Greek” text to be found where Mr. Price assures us we have our Final Authority? Simple answer: No such animal exists and he knows it. He is blindly professing a faith in something he knows doesn’t exist and seems to hoping that nobody else will notice the Huge White Elephant standing in the middle of the room.

Typical of the long list of modern attempts to state their faith in the authority of an undefined “Scripture” is this one from the Southwide Baptist Fellowship found on page 7 of his book. It states: “We believe in the verbal inspiration of the 66 books of the Bible IN ITS ORIGINAL WRITINGS and that IT IS without error and IS the sole authority in all matters of faith and practice.” Well, this all sounds very pious indeed, but notice that both Mr. Price and this confession talk about something they have never seen a day in their lives, and that they all know does not exist, and yet they refer to it in the present tense as something that IS without error and IS our sole authority. This is an absurd and illogical fairy tale, and I and thousands of other Christians do not believe it for a second.

Mr. Price tries to make us think that the belief in the King James Bible as the only true Bible is some new heresy, but the truth of the matter is that the historical, formal confessions regarding the infallibility of Scripture all came out AFTER the King James Bible had gained a foothold among the English speaking people, and they support the King James only position rather than the more recent “originals only” view that leaves us with NO inspired Bible at all.

Please see the quotes and church confessions in the article titled ‘The Historic Confessions of Preservation Support the KJB View’ here:

I recommend you also take read the article titled “The Bible IS NOT the inspired and inerrant words of God”, where you will find many quotes from modern day Biblical relativists like Mr. Price who deny the existence of an inspired Bible. Then contrast Mr. Price’s view from what the Scriptures themselves affirm.

It can be seen here:

Will Kinney
The King James Bible Page SwordSearcher Bible Software
Old 05-22-2008, 06:52 PM
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Default Response to KJV Onlyism: A New Sect

The Printing Errors Ploy

In chapter 4 of his book Mr. Price begins his frontal attack on the King James Bible by trying to convince us that it has been “revised” several times in the past and that the text is no longer what it once was, and therefore cannot possibly be the preserved and infallible words of God. He brings up the old “24,000 variations” argument, and yet seems almost schizophrenic when he talks about how this great Book came into being.

Mr. Price mentions the previous English bibles like Wycliffe, Tyndale, Coverdale, Bishops’ Bible and the Geneva Bible and on page 61 refers to each of these as “being a revision of its predecessor, modifying, refining, polishing, purifying, and updating it to current literary usage. By the time James 1 came to the throne, the process was due to be repeated.”

He then says on page 83 that “By making use of the best scholarship of their time, and building upon the excellent foundation laid by their predecessors, these translators produced an English Bible unsurpased in excellence of language, rhythm, cadence, majesty, worshipful reverence, and literary beauty.”

Well, this has been the Bible believers argument all along. It is just as the King James Bible translators stated, and Mr. Price himself includes in his book on page 82. “Truly (good Christian reader) we never thought from the beginning, that we should need to make a new Translation, nor yet to make of a bad one a good one...but to make A GOOD ONE BETTER, or OUT OF MANY GOOD ONES, ONE PRINCIPAL GOOD ONE, not justly to be excepted against; that hath been our endeavor, THAT OUR MARK.” Well, praise God, He used them to accomplish just that and we can be thankful for it.

The whole Printing Error Ploy has been addressed by several King James Bible believers such as Pastor David F. Reagan and Dr. Donald Waite. In my own article on the Printing Errors issue I address the examples Mr. Price brings up concerning Ruth 3:15, Song of Solomon 2:7, Jeremiah 34:16 and Judges 19:2. You can see it here and also find a link to Mr. Reagan’s excellent article:

(As a sidenote, if an occasional printing error invalidates a literary work's value, then by Mr. Price's own reasoning, his book itself cannot be trusted. When I ordered Mr. Price's book about King James Onlyism, it came along with an additional printed sheet informing the buyer about various printing errors they have so far discovered in his book. This page informs us that "page 35, Paragraph 3, line 2 "know" should be "known"; p 425 Jer. 46:20 should be Jer. 46:26; p. 427 1 Kings 9:38 should be 1 Kings 9:28; p. 429 2Kingsa should be 2 Kings; p. 430 Jer. 23:20 should be Jer. 23:30; p.431 Ps. 109:33 should be Ps.107:43; p. 434 Ps. 119:102 should be Ps. 119:101. Then it lists what it calls "Index Errors" and tells us that "In the index, the page numbers are OK up to page 369; from page 370 to 394, the page numbers are usually one number too high; from page 395 and above, the page numbers are usually two numbers too high." (End of quote). A verse came to mind when I saw this added page informing me about their printing errors - "For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness." 1 Corinthians 3:19)

The only “revisions” the King James Bible has gone through are the changes in format from the Gothic type to the Roman, the modernization of certain words like Sonne to Son, sinne to sin, and the correction of various minor printing errors that have occured and continue to occur in ALL printings of the bible or any book even in modern times.

Even the American Bible Society, no friend to the King James Bible, had this to say about the "revisions" of the King James Bible. The American Bible Society wrote, "The English Bible, as left by the translators (of 1611), has come down to us unaltered in respect to its text..." They further stated, "With the exception of typographical errors and changes required by the progress of orthography in the English language, the text of our present Bibles remains unchanged, and without variation from the original copy as left by the translators" (Committee on Versions to the Board of Managers, American Bible Society, 1852).

I found many of quoted criticisms of the King James Bible to be not only wildly exaggerated but even laughable when compared to the “examples” he then brings up to substantiate his claims. Mr. Price contines his theme of the so called “revisions” of the King James Bible, when in fact all they have done is to modernize the spelling of a few words and correct some printing errors.

At one point on page 99 Mr. Price quotes a Dr. Scrivener who wrote concering Benjamin Blayney’s 1769 “revision”, saying: “...more recent editors were right in the main in gradually clearing the sacred page of uncouth, obsolete, and variable forms which could answer no purpose save to perplex the ignorant, and offend the educated taste.”

So what exactly were these “uncouth, obsolete” forms that “perplex the ignorant and offend the educated taste”? Well, we don’t have to wonder, because Mr. Price lists a few choice examples on page 98 where Scrivenir says: “The following are a few examples of the changes made by Blayney.” Exodus 23:13 “names” changed to “name”; Numbers 4:40 “houses” changed to “house”; 1 Kings 16:23 “the thirty and one year” changed to “the thirty and first year”; Ezekiel 1:17 “returned” changed to “turned”, John 15:20 “then the Lord” changed to “than his Lord”; and Revelation 12:14 “flee” changed to “fly”.

So these are his examples of “uncouth, obsolete forms that perplex the ignorant and offend educated taste”?!!? This is pure silliness. These are nothing more that insignificant printing errors, yet Scrivener and Mr. Price are describing a tempest in a teapot.

Mr. Price again reveals his schizophrenic thinking when, after making a list of Scrivenir’s “errors” in the previos printings of the KJB, he then says: “Concerning the 24,000 variations, the American Bible Society Report stated, ‘Yet of all this great number, there is not one, which mars the integrity of the text, or affects any doctrine or precept of the Bible.”

The Usual List of Suspects

The next major area of criticism repeated by James Price are ones we have all heard many times before in our Bible clubs. Anyone who has read the books that criticize the King James Bible (and uphold none as the pure words of God) are very familiar with these examples of what the Bible critics call “oversights” or errors of one kind or another.

The three examples Mr. Price next brings up are the same ones James White conveniently has in his book too. They are Acts 19:20 “the word of GOD”; Hebrews 10:23 “the profession of our faith” and their all time favorite “strain at a gnat” in Matthew 23:24. Let’s take a further look at these examples of “error” in the King James Bible.

Acts 19:20 "So mightily grew the word of GOD and prevailed.

In his book, The King James Only Controversy, James White says on page 67 that the King James translators used the Latin Vulgate to come up with the reading "the word of GOD", rather than the Greek texts. Is this true?

Joining James White is another man who likewise does not believe that any Bible in any language is now the complete and pure words of God. In his book, King James Onlyism: A New Sect, James Price tells us on page 114: "Scrivenir listed two examples of what he called "oversight" and "inadvertence". In Acts 19:20 all English Versions (except Coverdale) read "OF GOD", although the Greek texts all read "OF THE LORD". The only support for the reading "of God" seems to be the Clementine edition of the Latin Vulgate."

As we shall soon see, both Mr. Scrivenir and James Price are perhaps ignorant as to why many translations have legitimately rendered this phrase as "the word of GOD”. They are also wrong about the reading found in ( as they say) "the Greek texts". There are a variety of readings here with some Greek texts like E, 88, 436, reading "the word of God" as well as the Old Latin manuscripts ar, c, e, gig, p, ph, ro, w, and the Armenian versions. Then the well know manuscript D actually reads "the FAITH OF GOD" instead, and this is the reading found in the Syriac translations of Lamsa, Murdoch and Etheridge.

But for the sake of argument, let's go with the text followed by the KJB translators and see if Mr. Price's assertion is right, OK?

People who say this is a translational error are merely voicing their personal opinion, which many other translators do not share. I am not an expert, but I know enough to be able to defend the KJB here. The word is literally Kurios, which usually in the N.T. is translated as Lord. However, in the Greek translations of the Old Testament, the word Kurios is used thousands of times for the Hebrew words God (Elohim) and Jehovah. I’m not defending any particular Greek translation, but merely want to show how the Greek language itself works.

It is interesting that the phrase "the word of God" is only found 3 times in the Hebrew Old Testament. Usually the phrase is "the word of the LORD". Yet in the Greek translations of the O.T. two of the three times the phrase "the word of God" is used, the Greek uses "the word of Kurios". The two places where the Hebrew says "the word of God" and the Greek translation has "o logos Kuriou" are 1 Kings 12:22 and 1 Chronicles 17:3. The one where the Greek uses Theos is Proverbs 30:5 "o logos Theou".

Not only does the King James Bible translate Acts 19:20 as "the word of GOD", but so also do Wycliffe 1395, Tyndale 1525, the Geneva Bible 1599, Matthew's bible, Bishop's bible 1568, Wesley's 1755 translation, the Italian Diodati 1649, and the Italian Riveduta 1927, the Douay-Rheims 1950, Webster's 1833 translation, Young's 'literal', the KJV 21st Century version and the Third Millenium Bible. So the KJB is by no means alone in translating this phrase as "the word of God".

It should also be noted that the vaunted NASB has done a similar thing but in reverse in Acts 12:24. There the Nestle-Aland Greek text, as well as the Majority and the Textus Receptus read "the word of GOD grew and multiplied." The word here is Theos - God, and so read the RV, ASV, NIV, RSV, NRSV, ESV, Holman Standard, KJB, NKJV and numerous others, yet the NASB says "the word of the LORD" as does the Douay version, thus following a very minor reading and that of the Vulgate too."

Also, the word for Jehovah # 3068 is translated in three different ways in the King James Bible - as JEHOVAH, LORD, and GOD. The NKJV, NASB, NIV all translate it as both LORD and GOD, but not as JEHOVAH. In any case, both the Hebrew and the Greek words can legitimately be translated as both God and Lord, and many Bible translators have done this very thing.

The Greek lexicons, like Liddell and Scott, 17th Abridged edition 1878 page 400 tell us that Kurios equals the Hebrew Jehovah, and Baer, Arndt and Gingrich on page 460 say Kurios can mean "lord, master, owner" and also is "a designation for God". So, when the KJB translated this word as God here in Acts 19:20 they were well within the acceptable meanings of the Greek word.

Even the NIV has translated this same word Kurios as "master, sir, owner, and his majesty".

Dr. Jeffrey Khoo, Academic Dean of Far Eastern Bible College says regarding Acts 19:20: "The KJV is not a mistranslation, and does not differ from the TR. The Greek word kurios can be translated in a number of ways depending on the context. It can be rendered "Lord", "master", "Sir", "God", or "owner". (see The Complete Word Study Dictionary: New Testament, 900-1). Acts 19:20 certainly allows for "God" instead of "Lord" since the context is speaking of the Word of God as a whole. If it is rendered as "the word of the Lord" it might be construed as some specific word from Jesus instead of God's Word or the Holy Scriptures in general. In any case, whether it is "the word of God", or "the word of the Lord", both are perfectly acceptable translations of the original."

Acts 19:20 in the King James Bible is not an error, nor a departure from the Textus Receptus, but is a perfectly acceptable and accurate translation of the underlying Greek text.

If we follow the various opinions of men like James White or James Price, we end up never knowing for sure what or where the true words of God are found. These two men certainly do not agree even with each other regarding numerous textual matters. They only thing they both have in common is their shared belief that the King James Bible is not the pure word of God and that there is NO pure Bible anywhere on this earth.

The next one both White and Price pick on is Hebrew 10:23. You can see our defense of this verse here:

The last one for the moment is the famous one in Matthew 23:24 about straining “at a gnat”. Here is one Bible believer’s defense of this phrase as found in the Book.

“Staining at Gnats”

While we’re on the subject of straining at gnats, let’s take a closer look at many of the petty and unlearned claims Mr. Price makes about the spelling and language of the King James Bible. It would be tedious to address every example he brings up, so we will take a look at just a few of the gnat straining examples Mr. Price lists in his efforts to discredit the language and wording of this magnificent Book of Books.

The language of the King James Bible is not as disorganized or as fickle as Mr. Price attempts to portray it. Among the “discrepancies” he lists are the capitalization or non-capitalization of words like “the Spirit of God” (Gen. 1:2) or “the spirit of God” (Exodus 31:3), the “holy spirit” (Psalm 51:11) versus “the Holy Spirit” (Luke 11:13), and the use of the indefinite article before the letter “h” as being either “an hairy garment” (Gen. 25:25) versus “a hairy man” (Gen. 27:11).

First of all, almost every Bible version out there will sometimes capitalize the Spirit of God and also use the phrase “the spirit of God”. God Himself has a soul and a spirit, just as man does, but there is also sometimes a reference to the Third Person of the Blessed Trinity as being the Spirit of God. Sometimes “the spirit of God” refers to the energy, power or character of God that influences human behaviour. It often is not clear as to which of these is being referred to. This “confusion” is seen in most Bible translations that have ever been printed. All you have to do is simply type in “spirit” or “Spirit” and see how the various translations have dealt with this matter. There is no consistent agreement among the various versions.

For example, in Genesis 1:2 the Bible translations that have a capital S refering to the Third Person of the Trinity, and say “the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters” are Wycliffe 1395, the Geneva Bible 1599, the ASV 1901, NASB, NKJV, NIV, the Complete Jewish Bible, and RSV.

However Bible versions that read: “the spirit of God” with a small “s” we find the following: Coverdale 1535, Bishops’ bible 1568, the Revised Version of 1881, the Douay-Rheims, and the 1917 Jewish Publication Society translation, and the 2001 Judaica Press Tanach.

The NRSV actually reads “the WIND from God swept over the face of the waters.”

In Exodus 31:3 the King James Bible reading may refer to the power and energy of God’s personal spirit that enables a man to fulfill certain callings. God called Bealeel and “filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship.”

The reading of “the spirit of God” is found in Bishops’s bible, Coverdale, Wycliffe, the Revised Version, Darby, Bible in Basic English, the 1917 JPS (though other Jewish translations have “Spirit”), Green’s 2000 translation, and the NRSV.

However other translations read the “Spirit of God”, like the NASB, NIV, NKJV, ASV and the Geneva Bible.

Let’s take a look at just one more of a multitude of verses that could be used to show how the distinction between “the spirit” and “the Spirit” is not always that clear or even necessary. The translations all throughout history are in total disagreement with each other. In Genesis 41:38 Pharoah says regarding Joseph: “Can we find such a one as this is, a man in whom the Spirit of God is ?”

Translations with a capital S in “the Spirit of God” are the following: the Geneva Bible, KJB, Darby, NKJV, Complete Jewish Bible, RSV and the 2001 ESV.

However versions that read “the spirit of God” with a small “s” are the 1917 JPS, the ASV, NIV, Coverdale, Bishops’, Young, and the NRSV. The NASB says “a divine spirit”. Notice too that the previous RSV has “Spirit”, then the revision of the revision NRSV has “spirit”, but then the revision of the revision of the revision called the ESV now once again reads “the Spirit of God”.

Mr. Price is merely straining at gnats and has no valid or consistent argument to condemn the King James Bible for something that ALL Bible translations do.

As for the issue of the “holy spirit” (Psalm 51:11) versus “the Holy Spirit” (Luke 11:13), please see my article about the Holy Ghost and the Holy spirit in the King James Bible.

Many other scholars and Bible translators disagree with Mr. Price’s mere opinion when he criticizes the King James Bible on page 111 saying: “Here are references where the word “spirit” is capitalized in the King James Version where it refers to an evil spirit: “Spirit of the LORD” in 1 Kings 22:24 (2 Chron. 18:23).”

Well, the context is that of a false prophet who thinks he is a true prophet of the Lord who comes to Micaiah and says: “Which way went the Spirit of the LORD from me to speak unto thee.” Here in the KJB the deceived prophet actually thought he had been previously been used by the Spirit of the Lord, and NOT an evil spirit. It doesn’t even make sense to read it as Mr. Price has suggested. Bible translation that agree with the KJB reading of “the Spirit of the LORD” are Wycliffe, the Geneva Bible, the ASV, Youngs, Darby, Complete Jewish Bible, Holman Standard, NASB, and the 2001 ESV.

However versions that read as Mr. Price suggests are Coverdale, Bishops’, the NRSV, NKJV and the NIV. Again, notice that the RSV read “Spirit,” then the NRSV had “spirit”, and now the ESV once again has gone back to “Spirit”. Mr. Price is just one more confused voice among a multitude of conflicting Multi- Versionists, who all differ from each other and NONE of whom believes in the existence of a tangible inspired and 100 % pure Bible.

Regarding Mr. Price’s criticism of the KJB’s varied use of the indefinite article before the letter “h” as being either “an hairy garment” (Gen. 25:25) versus “a hairy man” (Gen. 27:11), we should note the following facts. The pronunciation of the English letter “h” before a vowel has changed over the years and even today is varies from region to region.

The English “h” is sometimes a fricative or hard sounding “h” as in “house” or the modern American pronunciation of “horse”, but there are many other words where the letter “h” is to one degree or another silent as in the modern pronunciation of “hour, heir, honor”. However some English speakers around the world still continue to differ from others in sounding the “h” in many of the same words such as “horse, hide, hidden and hairy”, much like some in our own country do with “herb” or “homage”.

Not only does the King James Bible say that Esau was like “AN hairy garment” but so does the English Revised Version of 1881, and instead of “a hairy man” in Genesis 27:11 Wycliffe’s translation says he was AN hairy man. It is in the King James Bible that we can see and trace the evolution of our English language. This is why the King James Bible still has words like “especial” and “special”, and “since” and “sith” (Ezekiel 35:6 - this is also the spelling found in the 1881 Revised Version), or “ensample” (1 Peter 5:3) or “example” (1 Peter 2:21) - they both mean the same thing, one is just an older form that evolved into the other.

The same can be said for Mr. Price’s criticism of the King James Bible use of the words “ye” and sometimes the variant “you” for the second person plural nominative pronoun as he does on page 112.. The older “ye” was giving way to the more generic “you”, but it is actually the King James Bible that is FAR MORE ACCURATE in its use of YE (you and your) to indicate the Hebrew and Greek plural and the Thee (thy, thine, thou) to indicate the Hebrew and Greek singular.

See the article discussing why the use of Ye and Thee are far more accurate to the Hebrew and Greek, and why they should be retained here -

Will Kinney
Old 05-22-2008, 06:53 PM
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Default Response to KJV Onlyism: A New Sect

Mr. Price's Only Conclusion - We don't have an inspired and inerrant Bible

In his closing arguments about the so called “revisions” of the King James Bible, Mr. Price stumbles over the dual pebbles of “printing errors” and “minor spelling differences” only to launch himself out into the chasm of profound uncertainty. Yet all the while he is trying, with a strained smile firmly fixed in place, to reassure the reader that he is not in fact tumbling in a free fall through open space.

He begins wrapping up his arguments about the “archaic and obsolete words” and lists 2 pages worth. Most of these words are not archaic at all, but are found in many printed books today. There is an book called, “Archaic Words and the Authorized Version”, by Laurence M. Vance. In it Mr. Vance shows how most of the so-called archaic words in the KJB are not archaic at all but are found in modern magazines, newspapers, and dictionaries. There are only about 200 words usually picked out by critics of the KJB, yet of the approximately 800,000 words in the Bible this is only .004 % of the total.

I always find it ironic and blindly hypocritical for some scholar to tell us he himself can understand the King James Bible (as Mr. Price does), but then tell us that ‘other people’ have a hard time with the language. Of course a good dictionary that anybody can pick up and read will go a long way in clarifying the meaning of these good old English words.

But what do men like Mr. Price recommend instead? Why..., it’s the even more "archaic", far more difficult to pin down and much less understood “THE Hebrew and THE Greek” of course. Now, how is THAT for giving the word of God to the common people?!? Versions like the NIV, RSV, NRSV, ESV and Holman Standard are full of footnotes that read "Meaning of the Hebrew is uncertain". And where exactly do we find “the” Hebrew and “the” Greek? God only knows, because Mr. Price and his fellow multiple-choice, thousands of textual variants, omissions, additions, corruptions, lacunas, transcriptional probabilities and Bible of the Month Club promoters sure don’t know.

As for the “archaic” words ploy, please see The Old Fashioned Language of the King James Bible -

Mr. Price tries to argue that since there are numerous King James Bible publishers out there like Oxford, Cambridge, British & Foreign Bible Society, American Bible Society, Zondervan, Nelson, etc. and that among them there have resulted some spelling differences and/or printing errors, then we cannot logically argue for the King James Bible as being the true and preserved words of God.

Keep in mind that these are such minor differences as “Spirit” or “spirit”, “axe” or “ax”, “lift” or “lifted”, “Abidah” or “Abida”, “cloths” or “clothes”, “colour” or “color”, “forbad” or “forbade”, “astonied” or “astonished”, “further” or “farther”. Gosh, maybe we should just toss up our hands in despair at ever being able to hold up a real Book in our hands and declare “Thus saith the Lord...”

One of his “biggies” is the printed differences in spelling found in Nahum 3:16 where we read in the Cambridge King James Bible - “...the cankerworm spoileth and FLIETH away.” In the Oxford edition it reads “spoileth and FLEETH away.” The original 1611 read “flieth”, but even if a later publisher mistook the word for “fleeth”, any good dictionary will tell you that both words can mean the same thing. My Webster’s dictionary tells me that one of the meanings of“to fly” is “to run away from, flee from; or avoid.”

But let’s go even further with this “big example” Mr. Price presents us with and take a look at all the other bibles out there, shall we? Those Bible translations that read along with the original 1611 and the Cambridge printing of the KJB “FLIETH AWAY” (or flies away) are the following: the Geneva Bible, the NASB, NIV, NKJV, RSV and Holman.

However other versions that read “FLEE AWAY” are the ASV 1901, Coverdale, Bishops’ bible, Young’s ‘literal’, the 1936 Hebrew Publishing Company version, the 2003 Updated Bible version, the KJV 21st Century version 1994, and the Hebrew Names Bible.

Listen to Dr. Price’s conclusions and see if you want to go where he clearly has gone in his thinking. On page 123 , after showing us a list of “archaic” words and a few different spellings in the various printed editions of the King James Bible by different publishers, he sums up saying:

“It must be concluded that the current editions of the King James Version are doctrinally reliable, but are not flawless in their minute details. Therefore it would be wrong to dogmatically insist, apart from THE AUTHORITY OF THE HEBREW AND GREEK TEXTS (caps are mine), that the King James Version is the verbally inspired, infallible, inerrant Word of God, when it is known that the various current editions have verbal differences with variations of meaning....The doctrine of verbal inspiration and inerrancy IS LIMITED TO the words that were written by the inspired prophets and apostles. Translations must remain dependent on THE HEBREW AND GREEK TEXTS from which they are made, and must be expected to exhibit some measure of human fallibility....The differences among the King James editions ARE NOT AS NUMEROUS AS THOSE IN THE HEBREW AND GREEK TEXTS....but they still do not have a flawless Standard English text of the KJV to which they can appeal for final authority. To resolve the differences, they must still appeal to the Hebrew and Greek texts to determine which English words are authentic.”

Can you see through all this scholarly Double Talk? Mr. Price is all hung up over a few printing errors, “archaic” words, and minor spelling differences, and his only logical conclusion is that THERE IS NO INSPIRED AND INFALLIBLE BIBLE ON THIS EARTH. In Mr. Price’s thinking, the “inerrant” words of God turned to dust long, long ago, and never did form a complete Book that could be rightfully called The Bible.

Gather up all the spelling variations and minor printing errors in all the various modern printed editions of the King James Bible and compare their number to the total number of the wildly different Hebrew, Greek, various Septuagints, Syriac, Latin Vulgates, Dead Sea Scrolls, Samaritan Pentateuch , the “oldest and best” yada, yadas, or just plain “made up” textual sources from which the modern bible versions like the NKJV, NASB, NIV, RSV, ESV and Holman are translated. Then compare their total numbers and you will find the ratio to be about One Hundred to One. At least the King James Bible believer DOES HAVE a definite underlying Hebrew and Greek text he can go to if need be to find out which printing error is right. ALL Modern, Multi-Versionists like James Price and James White clearly DO NOT.

The Biblical Text Preserved

Beginning with chapter 7 of his book, King James Onlyism: A New Sect, Mr. Price almost sounds like a Bible believer. He starts off with some great quotes and even uses the King James Bible to support his hypothetical position.

He begins by saying: “Of equal importance to the doctrines of divine inspiration, infallibility, and inerrancy of Scripture is the doctrine of preservation of Scripture. Of what authority would the Scripture be today if its text had not been preserved throughout successive generations?”

He then goes on to quote from the KJB the verses in Matthew 5:18 where the Lord Jesus Christ, referring to the Old Testament, says: “For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.” He also quotes Matthew 24:35 and even refers it by extention to the New Testament Scriptures when the Lord says: “Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.” Then Mr. Price says: “Thus, He anticipated the New Testament and its preservation.” I and thousands of other King James Bible believers heartily agree with him up to this point.

Mr. Price then proceeds to refer again to the Westminster Confession which states: “The Old Testament Hebrew, and the New Testament in Greek, being immediately inspired by God, and by his singular care and providence kept pure in all ages, ARE therefore authentical”.

Then Mr. Price begins to reveal his Achilles heel when he says: “They thought that the printed editions of the Hebrew OT and the Greek NT available to them in their day were reliable representatives of the autographic texts.”

We would agree with Mr. Price and the Westminster Confession that was formulated in England in the year 1646. But may we be permitted to point out a couple of inconvenient facts here? What Bible were they referring to in 1649 that “by the providence and care of God had been kept pure in all ages” and was currently in widespread use throughout the churches in England at that time? It was the King James Bible.

If by the Hebrew and the Greek texts they included the other English Reformation bibles too, like the Bishops’s bible of 1568 and the Geneva bible of 1560, then we would like to point out that their OT Hebrew and NT Greek texts were of the same type as the King James Bible and all of them were far different from the multitude of modern versions like the NASB, RSV, NRSV, ESV, NIV and Holman Standard, all of which reject the same Westminster Confession Hebrew texts in scores of places and reject the aforementioned NT Greek texts by omitting or calling into question some 40 entire verses plus another 2000 words or so, and none of them agrees even with each other.

Mr. Price professes an agreement with a Confession of Faith in the purity of Scriptures which he soon effectively denies when he promotes such modern versions as the NASB, NIV, ESV, Holman, RSV and others, all of which affirm the same Hebrew Scriptures to have been corrupted or even lost in numerous places. So, Mr. Price, please don’t tell us you believe the Westminster Confession, and then turn right around and deny the very Hebrew and Greek texts they stood for.

On page 129, Mr. Price begins to discuss the various “theories” of where God’s words might be preserved, and he gives us the modern day party line saying: “Those who have studied the SCIENCE AND ART of TEXTUAL CRITICISM have developed various theories of how the autographic text should be recovered from the multiple but imperfect witnesses. (Caps are mine). If you really want to see this “science and art” of textual criticism in action, take a look at my five part series on “Is this “Science” or Hocus Pocus?” here:

Mr. Price goes on to mention that some prefer the texts from Egypt, known as the Alexandrian tradition (these would be the Westcott-Hort versions like the NASB, NIV, RSV). Others prefer the Byzantine or ‘Majority Text’ view, others the Textus Receptus, and others still prefer an evaluation of all the witness from all traditions, but of course he takes a firm stand with none of the above and leaves the matter open to the individual conscience. He concludes: “No matter what theory a person prefers, the recovery of the autographic text is left with some degree of uncertainty.”

Since Mr. Price was one of the chief editors of the New King James Version, it is little surprise that he would support such an undecided and vague view of the preservation of Scriptures. Notice these words from the NEW KJV 1982 on page 1235: "It was the editors' conviction that the use of footnotes would encourage further inquiry by readers. THEY ALSO RECOGNIZED THAT IT WAS EASIER FOR THE AVERAGE READER TO DELETE SOMETHING HE OR SHE FELT WAS NOT PROPERLY A PART OF THE TEXT, than to insert a word or phrase which had been left out by the revisers."

These footnotes in the NKJV generally have to do with the 3000 - 7000 words that have been omitted from the New Testament in such versions as the RSV, NIV, NASB, ESV. The NKJV editors are of the opinion that THE AVERAGE READER can DELETE something he FEELS is not part of the text.

On page 130 Mr. Price continues: “Because of the complexity of the problem of recovering the autographic text from multiple but imperfect witnesses, and because of the uncertainty...some have resorted to the dogma that God has preserved authoritative translations...and that the English Authorized Version is the perfectly preserved, authoritative Word of God for this time. But this is a new doctrine, not in harmony with the historical doctrine of Scripture.”

Again, let it be pointed out that the King James Bible believer’s faith in a preserved “book of the LORD” is based on what the Bible says about itself; not the “historical doctrine” of Scripture drawn up by men (i.e. the Westminster Confession) that even Mr. Price himself effectively denies. We really take those previously quoted verses in Matthew 5:18 and 24:35 to heart. We actually believe God has preserved His words as He promised and all the evidence points to the King James Bible as being that book.

Mr. Price again makes a silly argument against the possibility of a Translation being the inerrant word of God when he says on page 131: “But translations are the product of fallible men who cannot claim perfection.” Well, Duh.... How about those “fallible men who cannot claim perfection” that God used to give us the originals in the first place? If being fallible and imperfect men disqualifies any of us from being the chosen vessels of passing down God’s inspired words to succeeding generations, then the originals would never had been penned in the first place! His argument proves too much.

Then he again sticks his foot in his mouth when he says that “the Hebrew and Greek words cannot be perfectly transferred into another language (like English) without the loss of precision....Translation always involves some degree of deficiency. The most that can be expected of the best translation is an optimum transfer of information, not perfection, even with alleged providential preservation.”

He might want to take up his argument with the Lord Jesus Christ and the apostles who continually “translated” from the inspired Hebrew and put it into another language for the New Testament, or with the apostle Paul who preached virtually a whole chapter in one language that was translated into another inspired one in Acts 22. This whole idea that a translation cannot be the inspired word of God did not come from the Bible, but from the seminary where they took both his money and his faith in an inerrant Bible.

Please see the article called “Can a Translation Be Inspired” -

Mr. Price admits the Hebrew Scriptures have been corrupted or even lost in parts, and has only a vague idea as to where the true N.T. readings may be found. So where, if not the King James Bible, does Mr. Price expect us to go to find the authoritative word of God? He won’t tell you. In his mind it is “out there somewhere” among all the thousands of variant readings and neither he nor any of his fellow Bible of the Month Club promoters are willing to take a stand on anything as being the sure words of God.

On page 150 he closes with these “comforting” words: “The reconstruction of the autographic texts is complex and not without some degree of uncertainty...So God evidently intends for His people to use their God-given intelligence, under illumination of the Holy Spirit, to accomplish this task....but, of course, no complete agreement has resulted. No one individual or group of individuals can claim to have the perfect solution to the problem.”

Apparently in Mr. Price’s view, poor ol’God has not only not been able to preserve His words as Matthew 5:18 and 24:35 promise, but now even God's “evident intentions” that His people could somehow manage to do it for Him have been dashed to pieces too.

In Conclusion

I have finished leafing through the rest of Mr. Price’s book to see what else he has to say, and frankly, I grow weary of reading him. The rest of his book takes up the various 8 to 10 different theories of textual criticism, with one scholar differing radically from what another says, ending up with Mr. Price eventually picking his own individual way of doing things. If you think my response has shown many textual differences among the various versions, then finish reading Mr. Prices book. He goes into literally hundreds of textual differences in both the Old and New Testaments in all the various versions out there and ends up with no Infallible Bible to give or recommend to anyone. He won’t even tell you which ones are right and which ones are not. The only thing he’s sure about is that neither the King James Bible nor any other Bible in any language is now the complete, inerrant and 100% true words of God.

Mr. Price gives us the usual “No Bible is inspired” party line about the 5 or 6 different Greek versions and the so called Septuagint. If you are interested in reading the other side of this argument, then begin here and follow on through the rest.

The idea that there was no authoritative Pre-Christian Greek Septuagint did not originate with Dr. Peter Ruckman. Others too throughout history have noted that what passes for the LXX is actually codex Sinaiticus and Vaticanus and that readings from an already completed New Testament were “back-translated” and placed into the so called Greek Septuagint.

Mr. Price also claims the Old Latin bibles are not on the side of the King James Bible, just as Doug Kutilek does. Yet how these gentlemen can ignore even their own Nestle-Aland footnotes that confirm the existence of every major disputed verse omitted in many modern versions as being found in these old bibles is beyond me.

You can see the evidence for yourself in this article about the Old Latin readings and the disputed King James Bible verses here:

Mr. Price basically ends his book with these words of distilled wisdom which are self-contradictory at best, but do reveal the sophistry of one who sounds out pious sounding words signifying nothing.

“The Bible, like all other things in life, has a measure of uncertainty associated with its identity...Sound reason has shown that this uncertainty provides no practical basis for doubting the authenticity or authority of Scripture; instead, reason provides the stepping stone for faith to move beyond uncertainty to full confidence in God’s Word....I plan to continue to use my King James Versions and other modern versions, to employ what seems to be the best method of textual criticism, and to retain my confidence in the Hebrew and Greek texts of he Bible as the divinely inspired, infallible, inerrant, authoritative Word of God, in spite of the occasional uncertainty.”

Can you see that Huge White Elephant standing in the middle of the room here?

In closing I would like to present you with one last article I have written about the Bible Version issue. One can argue the thousands of variant textual readings till they go silly and never solve anything, but the evidence that the King James Bible is the only true word of God is the fact that it always tells the truth and never perverts sound doctrine. Many argue, like Mr. Price does, that the major doctrines are taught in all bible versions, no matter how different. To a large extent I agree with him. However it is where these contradictory bible versions do pervert the Truth of God, that they reveal themselves to be bogus bibles They often speak with forked tongue, and raise again that first question found in the Bible when, in the garden of Eden, the subtle serpent asked - “Yea, hath God said...?

Please consider the article on the link below. It is titled ‘No Doctrines Are Changed?’.

May the Lord our God cause you and me “to grow in grace and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.” 2 Peter 3:18

Will Kinney
Old 05-22-2008, 08:24 PM
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George George is offline
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AV1611 Bible Forums > Bible Versions > A Bible Believers Response to "King James Onlyism; A New Sect, by James Price > Posts #1, #2, #3
Aloha brother,

#1. Excellent – #2. Excellent – #3. Excellent!

Just got through reading all three posts, and once again I am very thankful that you are on “our side”. Keep up the excellent work – I’m glad you’re doing it, I’m growing weary.

These “Textual” arguments have been going on since the textual “critics” were given “credence” in the 1700’s and then they became “authoritative” by the late 1800’s and now throughout the 20th. Century they have arrived at one singular, solitary “conclusion” and that is we can’t be sure of just exactly where God’s word is, or what it actually says – BUT, one thing is for sure, it couldn’t possibly be the King James Bible!

In the 40 years that I have been engaged in this “battle”, I have never seen anyone ever become “convinced” of our position through manuscript evidence; textual criticism arguments; or the history of the so-called text “families”; etc.; etc.: (endless).

In order to defend our position it is necessary for us to know these things, but on the other hand the most effective “tool" that I have seen in convincing people of “our position” has been the comparison of the weak versions with the Holy Scriptures (And you know what I’m referring to!).

Thanks again for your hard (boring & tiring) work.

Mahalo nui loa,

Yours for the Lord Jesus Christ and for His Holy, Infallible word,
Old 05-23-2008, 06:50 AM
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Will Kinney Will Kinney is offline
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Default God's perfect Book - the King James Bible

Originally Posted by George View Post
In the 40 years that I have been engaged in this “battle”, I have never seen anyone ever become “convinced” of our position through manuscript evidence; textual criticism arguments; or the history of the so-called text “families”; etc.; etc.: (endless).

In order to defend our position it is necessary for us to know these things, but on the other hand the most effective “tool" that I have seen in convincing people of “our position” has been the comparison of the weak versions with the Holy Scriptures (And you know what I’m referring to!).

Thanks again for your hard (boring & tiring) work.

Mahalo nui loa,

Yours for the Lord Jesus Christ and for His Holy, Infallible word,
Hi brother. Thank you for the words of encouragement. I agree with what you say about all the manuscript evidence and textual criticism methods. The evidence is overwhelmingly on the side of the King James 'type' of Bible, but few if any are convinced by these arguments.

However, once you take the position that God meant what He says again and again about how "the Scripture cannot be broken", "the word of the Lord endureth forever" and "heaven and earth shall pass away but my words shall not pass away", and if you believe that God cannot lie nor is He confused, then the weaknesses of all the modern versions become far more evident.

By the way, I don't speak Hawaiian but I do know Spanish - ¡Qué Dios te bendiga!

Will K
Old 05-23-2008, 08:13 AM
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bibleprotector bibleprotector is offline
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Keep in mind that these are such minor differences as “Spirit” or “spirit”, “axe” or “ax”, “lift” or “lifted”, “Abidah” or “Abida”, “cloths” or “clothes”, “colour” or “color”, “forbad” or “forbade”, “astonied” or “astonished”, “further” or “farther”.
When comparing to a modern version, anyone can prove the King James Bible is the Word against error, whether using a 1611 Edition or a 1917 Scofield Edition, because there is one version-text and translation, and it is right every time. The differences within editions of the King James Bible are minor when comparing to modern versions. However, this does not mean that these variations within the King James Bible are unimportant. If they were unimportant, then there should be no desire nor effort to ever correct printing mistakes.

The original 1611 read “flieth”, but even if a later publisher mistook the word for “fleeth”, any good dictionary will tell you that both words can mean the same thing.
I believe that "fleeth" was a printer's error, and it is remarkable that both words do overlap in aspects of their meanings. The Oxford English Dictionary shows that in Northern England at a certain time, and more especially in Scotch English, "fly" was actually written as "flee", though this factor is unlikely to have had anything to do with the case of Nahum 3:16. A really important point is that no matter what has happened, nothing has actually been lost in the King James Bible: whether by printer’s mistakes in 1611, or whether by any printing mistakes that happened up to or in 1769. At no time was the Word of God lost and gone.
Old 05-23-2008, 05:08 PM
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Default Re:Mahalo nui loa

By the way, I don't speak Hawaiian but I do know Spanish - ¡Qué Dios te bendiga!
Mahalo = "Thankyou". Nui Loa = "With much love (or appreciation)". Aloha = "Hello/Goodbye/Love" (depending on where it is used).

Keep up the good work brother, I know how "tedious" it is.
Old 05-23-2008, 07:02 PM
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Biblestudent Biblestudent is offline
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"Aloha" Bro. George,
I'm quite confused about that word for I've heard it used different ways. Thanks for clarifying that.
Old 05-23-2008, 11:46 PM
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Originally Posted by George View Post
In the 40 years that I have been engaged in this “battle”, I have never seen anyone ever become “convinced” of our position through manuscript evidence; textual criticism arguments; or the history of the so-called text “families”; etc.; etc.: (endless).
Apparently, you have not met someone like me. I was convinced by the evidence as all honest seekers should. The very first two books that I read in regards to the King James Bible was Dr. D.A. Wait’s Defending the King James Bible: Four fold Superiority and Edward F. Hills’ The King James Bible Defended. The two convinced me beyond reasonable doubt. Subsequent books of influence were Jasper James Ray’s God Wrote Only One Bible, Edward F. Hills’ Believing Bible Study, and books by David Otis Fuller and Davis W. Cloud.

The point is, is that I was convinced by the evidence. Therefore, I use the evidence to convince others and I have seen others convinced numerous times (more than I can count).

Originally Posted by George View Post
In order to defend our position it is necessary for us to know these things…
I totally agree!!!


- “One accurate measurement is worth more than a thousand expert opinions”

- “...this is the Word of God; come, search, ye critics, and find a flaw; examine it, from its Genesis to its Revelation, and find an error... This is the book untainted by any error; but is pure, unalloyed, perfect truth. Why? Because God wrote it. Ah! charge God with error if you please; tell him that his book is not what it ought to be. I have heard men, with prudish and mock-modesty, who would like to alter the Bible; and (I almost blush to say it) I have heard ministers alter God's Bible, because they were afraid of it... Pity they were not born when God lived far—far back that they might have taught God how to write.” Charles Haddon Spurgeon (Spurgeon's Sermons Volume 1: Sermon II p. 31)

- “If, therefore, any do complain that I have sometimes hit my opponents rather hard, I take leave to point out that 'to everything there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the sun' : 'a time to embrace, and a time to be far from embracing' : a time for speaking smoothly, and a time for speaking sharply. And that when the words of Inspiration are seriously imperilled, as now they are, it is scarcely possible for one who is determined effectually to preserve the Deposit in its integrity, to hit either too straight or too hard.” Dean John William Burgon (The Revision Revised. pp. vii-viii)
Old 05-24-2008, 01:04 AM
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PeterAV PeterAV is offline
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Originally Posted by Biblestudent View Post
"Aloha" Bro. George,
I'm quite confused about that word for I've heard it used different ways. Thanks for clarifying that.
The French Canadians also have a similar word to aloha with all the same types of usages.
"salute" pronounced saloo.

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