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Old 04-27-2009, 10:30 AM
Winman Winman is offline
 
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Default Because of the angels

Here is a verse that I have never quite understood,

1 Cor 11:10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.

I do not have a problem with this chapter overall, it is very staightforward and clear. But I have never quite understood the phrase "because of the angels" in verse 10.
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Old 04-27-2009, 10:54 AM
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Hi Winman,

I've heard it said that this can be linked to;

Gen 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

The Corinthians passage is in reference to women covering their heads. I think somehow, for some reason head coverings protect women from the observations of fallen angels. This is just speculation, I know, but the Genesis passage does indicate that those sons of God were attracted to the daughters of men, and we all know what the generally accepted idea of what went on in with these Nephilim is.


The following isn't necessarily true or not, but a year ago, when I was researching posession and deliverance, to find out what is scriptural and what is not, I came across this one story of a woman who was supposedly being visited by a succubus regularly. The story goes that they tried all kinds of things, including deliverance sessions, however after months of torment, someone suggested that she wear a head covering, and the visitations stopped completely.
Far out, I know, I'd rather stick with the scriptural link, and discuss that, but that story did come to mind...
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Old 04-27-2009, 01:19 PM
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I’m not sure what the verse means, but the context of 1 Corinthians 11:1-5 appears to be authority, something the angels would be familiar with.
“……by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him. (1 Peter 3:21-22)
And angels are looking into our affairs.
“Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.” (1 Peter 1:11-12)
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Old 04-27-2009, 04:41 PM
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1 Cor 11:10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.

I think Genesis 6:2 is a good cross-reference, but the first three words urge me to look at the context, which deals with headship.

Well, both comments are helpful.

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Old 04-27-2009, 05:36 PM
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I agree with you that context is essential, and I agree that the context here is headship and authority, but why would women need to do something in obedience to angels? For obedience to her husband, and in turn to God, absolutely, yet it is a puzzling phrase, it sounds like a warning.

Those first three words of verse 11 are indeed good reason to examine context. Like Kent Hovind once said "whenever you read the word 'therefor', you'd better find out what its there for!"


1Co 11:7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.
1Co 11:8 For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man.
1Co 11:9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.
1Co 11:10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.

'For this cause', to me anyways, links it to verse 9, which references creation. The woman was created for the man, not the other way around.
This leads me to ponder Christ as the last Adam.
Bear with me for a moment;
All of creation was made to glorify God, right? To point towards His glory.
Adam was created perfect, then God created Eve for Adam, to make the relationship complete, to realize Adam's full potential through love.
Here's the mindbender: Christ wasn't sent only because of mankind's sin, but God allowed mankind to sin in order for Christ to be glorified in his act of redemption.
Christ wasn't prepared for his bride, rather his bride was prepared for him: to God be the glory!

So, since Eve was deceived by an (fallen) angel in the garden, it seems like the admonition for the woman is to guard herself and remain under the authority of her husband. After all, the commandment from the LORD came directly to Adam not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil before Eve was even created. Its presumable then, that Adam repeated this commandment to Eve once she came on the scene.
So then, had Eve been obedient unto Adam, she would in turn have been obedient unto God.


Gen 2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
Gen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Gen 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

Here, the LORD God said that Adam (type of Christ) should not be alone, so he prepared an help meet (bride) for him.

So, all this to wonder why a woman "ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels"?
Does power on her head mean that she herself exerts power over her own head (self-control, obedience, wear a hat in church?), or does it mean that the power being referred to is actually the headship of her husband?

As for the angels, it could be for fallen angels seeking to deceive, or it could also be for God's good angels. Either way, both the fallen and unfallen angels seem to desire to look into the things of mankind. (1 Peter 1:12)
If a woman therefor abides under headship, she trounces the fallen ones, and if a woman allows herself to be deceived out from under the headship, displeases the unfallen ones.


I hope I havn't angered anyone with these thoughts. I just thought I'd share my thoughts, and in no way am I saying its a doctrine. I think Winman brought up a very interesting passage that I had been curious about for a while as well. Before posting, I read each chapter slowly implicated here so far, and then this idea solidified. I'm interested to see what others think of it.
Does this mean then that all women should wear hats in church? I know some Baptists do this: I honestly don't know if we should or not. I'm sure God is more concerned with our preserving of the headship ordinance he laid out, but it does beg one to consider it.


And just in case I'm not going too far off topic yet, here's a side-note:

I had very long hair for a few years, and it was by coming across verse 14 of this chapter that made me go and get it cut short and proper, I also had my gold earnings taken out at the same time. (about 2.5 years ago).
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Old 04-27-2009, 05:48 PM
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It all has to do with head ship, Christ head of the Church, Husband head of the woman. Man praying with his head covered (being in the image of God), dishonors his head (God). Woman her hair being her glory, praying with head uncovered dishonors her head (Husband).

1St Peter 1:12 the Angels desiring to understand these things, are looking into. It seems there is a courosity among the Angels to understand Man, Salvation, and the relationship of these things.
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Old 04-27-2009, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel View Post
1St Peter 1:12 the Angels desiring to understand these things, are looking into. It seems there is a courosity among the Angels to understand Man, Salvation, and the relationship of these things.
I think you might be onto something about that, perhaps the fallen and unfallen angels can't really comprehend how us free willed creatures can love God back.

But still, the "because of the angels" does seem like a warning of sorts.
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Old 04-27-2009, 06:08 PM
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From Matthew Henry's Commentary...

"She ought to have power on her head, because of the angels. Power, that is, a veil, the token, not of her having the power or superiority, but being under the power of her husband, subjected to him, and inferior to the other sex. Rebekah, when she met Isaac, and was delivering herself into his possession, put on her veil, in token of her subjection, Gen. xxiv. 65. Thus would the apostle have the women appear In Christian assemblies, even though they spoke there by inspiration, because of the angels, that is, say some, because of the evil angels. The woman was first in the transgression, being deceived by the devil (1 Tim. ii. 14), which increased her subjection to man, Gen. iii. 16. Now, believe evil angels will be sure to mix in all Christian assemblies, therefore should women wear the token of their shamefacedness and subjection, which in that age and country, was a veil. Others say because of the good angels. Jews and Christians have had an opinion that these ministering spirits are many of them present in their assemblies. Their presence should restrain Christians from all indecencies in the worship of God. Note, We should learn from all to behave in the public assemblies of divine worship so as to express a reverence for God, and a content and satisfaction with that rank in which he has placed us."
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Old 04-28-2009, 06:48 AM
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I promise, I wasn't ripping off my take on the question passage from any commentary, I just read the chapters a few times. It is interesting to note, however, that Henry makes much the same linkages.

Still, the 'because of the angels' phrase is yet proving elusive to nail down for sure.
Simply because they are present? or because there is a consequence with these angels (good or evil) to be effected based on the head covering?

Any other thoughts, commentaries out there?
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Old 04-28-2009, 07:20 AM
Tmonk Tmonk is offline
 
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Another Book of Enoch reference maybe like in Jude?
 

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