Doctrine Discussion about matters of the faith.

 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 06-06-2009, 01:29 PM
Winman Winman is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 464
Default

I agree with Forrest, the command for the Lord's Supper is to do this in "remembrance of me (Jesus)"

But you know, when we stop and really consider this, you can't help but be convicted of sin. Sometimes we forget as Christians what it was like before we were saved, how we were under the penalty of death, and rightfully so. And we forget the amazing love that God had for us even though we were ungodly sinners.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

We've heard this verse so much that we have forgotten how wonderful it was when we first heard it as lost sinners. We were doomed and without hope, appointed for destruction. But God still loved us so very much that he gave his Son Jesus to die for us.

When I stop and really meditate on this, I do become very ashamed that I have not lived as well as I ought as a Christian.

Rom 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

So, I don't think a Christian who really stops and considers the great love God showed for us by giving his Son Jesus can help but be convicted of sin.

Luke 7:36 And one of the Pharisees desired him that he would eat with him. And he went into the Pharisee's house, and sat down to meat.
37 And, behold, a woman in the city, which was a sinner, when she knew that Jesus sat at meat in the Pharisee's house, brought an alabaster box of ointment,
38 And stood at his feet behind him weeping, and began to wash his feet with tears, and did wipe them with the hairs of her head, and kissed his feet, and anointed them with the ointment.
39 Now when the Pharisee which had bidden him saw it, he spake within himself, saying, This man, if he were a prophet, would have known who and what manner of woman this is that toucheth him: for she is a sinner.
40 And Jesus answering said unto him, Simon, I have somewhat to say unto thee. And he saith, Master, say on.
41 There was a certain creditor which had two debtors: the one owed five hundred pence, and the other fifty.
42 And when they had nothing to pay, he frankly forgave them both. Tell me therefore, which of them will love him most? 43 Simon answered and said, I suppose that he, to whom he forgave most. And he said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged. 44 And he turned to the woman, and said unto Simon, Seest thou this woman? I entered into thine house, thou gavest me no water for my feet: but she hath washed my feet with tears, and wiped them with the hairs of her head. 45 Thou gavest me no kiss: but this woman since the time I came in hath not ceased to kiss my feet. 46 My head with oil thou didst not anoint: but this woman hath anointed my feet with ointment. 47 Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little. 48 And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.

So, when we stop and consider ourselves, and remember the great love God had for us in giving his Son Jesus, we cannot help but love him back.

1 John 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.

Last edited by Winman; 06-06-2009 at 01:47 PM.
The King James Bible Page SwordSearcher Bible Software
  #12  
Old 06-06-2009, 04:59 PM
tonybones2112's Avatar
tonybones2112 tonybones2112 is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 754
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BornAgainBibleBeliever514 View Post
Continued confession out of a contrite spirit is essential to having a continually closer fellowship with God.
This does NOT mean that confession, let alone continual, is in ANY way necessary for salvation.
Brother, if there was any way possible I could remember them all and would have to go through the law of Moses to see the number I transgressed day by day, would you like me to try and give you a list of sins I committed today? Not yesterday or the day before, but just this day, today? Am I in a forum of Bible fundamentalists or Nazarene holiness?

Eph. 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

Col. 2:Col 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

Brother, have I missed three things: Did John Wesley join this forum, and are these passage above written in present, or past tense, and do I walk by faith, and not by sight? I've never been baptized in water, I've never took what is called "communion" but one time in my life, and I've never "confessed" anything to anybody but on the day of my salvation I spoke aloud in a Sunday school class at the age of 12, God, forgive me through Christ's blood, a sinner.

Where am I incomplete and what is God gonna do to me?

Grace and peace

Tony
  #13  
Old 06-08-2009, 03:25 PM
Fredoheaven's Avatar
Fredoheaven Fredoheaven is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Philippines
Posts: 176
Default

Romans 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Romans 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Romans 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
  #14  
Old 06-08-2009, 04:59 PM
Forrest's Avatar
Forrest Forrest is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 597
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fredoheaven View Post
Romans 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Romans 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Romans 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Greetings Brother!

I think it's significant that Paul answered his own question.
Romans 7:24-25 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
The way I read this passage is that Christ hath delivered me (us) once, for all time and there is absolutely nothing I could ever do to make myself any more delivered than I already am in Christ at this very moment.
Ephesians 1:7 – In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
Let me ask you some questions for your prayerful consideration. Do we have redemption and forgiveness through His blood according to the riches of His grace? Do we have it right now to the full? If so, why do you need to “confess” sins you are already forgiven for? Does a “believer” confess their sins in order to restore their fellowship with God? Is that what 1 John 1:9 really says? For years that is what I told people it meant. But that's not what it says.

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Or do we confess our sins in order to restore our fellowship with God? What does the Bible say? Please consider what I am asking. Personally, I begin seeing this passage in 1 John differently as I grew in grace and in the knowledge of Christ. As I begin to receive by faith His preeminence in all things and my completeness in Him alone, I began to simply repent of sin and praise and thank Him for what He has already done at the cross.

It really is finished.

Why must we confess our sins to be cleansed from all unrighteousness when the Bible clearly says I'm already the righteousness of God in Christ? Be careful about going back to that “in order to restore fellowship with God” thing again. Remember, we are not told to confess our sins in order to restore fellowship. That is not what the Bible says.
2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
Are we “…made the righteousness of God in him” only when we live in sinless perfection by confessing our sins? What happens to those believers who might overlook confessing a particular sin? (Thought, word, deed, attitude?) Are they out of fellowship with God, no longer in the light, and in darkness? Is that what the Holy Scripture is really teaching?
1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
If "walking in the light as he is in the light" here represents holy action, obedient submission, and sinless behavior in the life of a believer rather than positional reality then we must conclude that when we sin we are no longer in the light, no longer in fellowship with God through Christ, and no longer being cleansed by the powerful and precious blood of Christ and that confession is a requirement to reactivate the forgiveness of sins and cleansing effectiveness from all unrighteousness.

Again, what happens if we overlook a sin and fail to confess it? It’s all or nothing with God. God requires absolute sinless perfection. I don’t know about you but this reality causes me to thank God for the precious blood and body of Christ that was given for me on the cross. In Christ, I am forgiven, cleansed, and made the very righteousness of God all the time in the midst of personal sin. That's justification. I am not justified because I've stopped sinning. I'm justified even though I do sin.

This truth causes me to hate sin not love it. This truth makes me sensitive to right not insensitive. Most all this truth helps me to live without any condmnation. Christ hath made me the righteousness of God. Wow!
  #15  
Old 06-08-2009, 05:53 PM
Winman Winman is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 464
Default

We do have an example of a saved believer who is told to pray and ask forgiveness for a sin after conversion. It is Simon who was beforetime a sorcerer in Acts 8.

Acts 8:9 But there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one:
10 To whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying, This man is the great power of God.
11 And to him they had regard, because that of long time he had bewitched them with sorceries.
12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done. 14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,
19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.
20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.
21 Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.
22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee. 23 For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.
24 Then answered Simon, and said, Pray ye to the Lord for me, that none of these things which ye have spoken come upon me.

So, here we have a believer who sinned, and Peter told him to repent of his wickedness, and pray to God for forgiveness.
  #16  
Old 06-08-2009, 07:05 PM
Bro. Parrish
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forrest View Post
Does a “believer” confess their sins in order to restore their fellowship with God? Is that what 1 John 1:9 really says? For years that is what I told people it meant. But that's not what it says.

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Or do we confess our sins in order to restore our fellowship with God? What does the Bible say? Please consider what I am asking. Personally, I begin seeing this passage in 1 John differently as I grew in grace and in the knowledge of Christ. As I begin to receive by faith His preeminence in all things and my completeness in Him alone, I began to simply repent of sin and praise and thank Him for what He has already done at the cross.
Forrest, I'm trying to see your angle on this...

I'm not sure why you have a problem with the word "confess" brother, it still seems you are ignoring the plain instructions to confess any sin in our life to God. For me it's done almost in one breath, I confess it (identify it, name it) and ask God to forgive me for it. Why is that a problem—that is what 1 John 1:9 instructs us to do. I guess the "fellowship thing" can be debated, but whether or not we totally understand what is written in 1 John 1:9, confession is certainly there, and that's because confessing is part of God's plan for us to recognize and deal with the sins in our lives.

Why do we confess our sins to be cleansed from all unrighteousness?
Because we can stumble in sin, and all sin is unrighteousness. (I John 5:17)

The simple fact is, we can and do grieve the Holy Spirit of God, and carrying around habitual sin without confessing it and putting it away is not a good place to be. These sins can not change our blessed position in God's family, but they can still have grave consequences in our daily lives and rob us of our joy. It seems to me that the idea of "fellowship" is part of this passage...

"If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." I John 1:6-7

It seems to me the context is God's children and sin...

"My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous" I John 2:1

I agree and rejoice with you 100% that positionally we are justified and "it is finished." However, we cannot confuse our positional forgiveness with the need for ongoing forgiveness and cleansing as we stumble in sin. Christians are still quite capable of any sin you can imagine; and that's why the writer of Ephesians mentions putting away bitterness, wrath, and anger, evil speaking etc. and tells his readers to "grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption."

22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.

26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:

27 Neither give place to the devil.

28 Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.

29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.

30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:

32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you. — Eph. 4:22-32

Last edited by Bro. Parrish; 06-08-2009 at 07:17 PM.
  #17  
Old 06-08-2009, 07:49 PM
chette777's Avatar
chette777 chette777 is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Puerto Princesa City, Palawan Philippines
Posts: 1,431
Default

Winman,

To what was Simon the sorcerer saved? he had not received the Holy Ghost and was wanting to purchase the power to give it to others but he himself had not received it.

Why did the people in Samaria need to have hands laid on them from the Apostles if they were preaching the Gospel of Grace as you believe they did? if indeed they were receiving the Gospel of grace putting hands on someone to receive the Holy Ghost was wrong because under the gospel of grace you receive the Holy Ghost the moment you believe. Eph 1:13, 14 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

or could it be they were not preaching the gospel of Grace but of the Gospel of the Kingdom? which is the Gospel of Acts 8. I refer you to Georges study on right division of Acts.

In which case it was necessary for those in Samaria to submit to Jerusalem Religious leadership (in this case Christ set up a new leadership via the Apostles) because Samaria had rebelled against Jerusalem and had set up its own religious center and worship in OT times.
  #18  
Old 06-09-2009, 01:21 AM
chette777's Avatar
chette777 chette777 is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Puerto Princesa City, Palawan Philippines
Posts: 1,431
Default

1Co 11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

What would constitute eating and drinking unworthily today? and if they are saved what is meant by the term damnation?
  #19  
Old 06-09-2009, 02:53 AM
kevinvw kevinvw is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 73
Default

Rom 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
Rom 13:2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

1Ti 5:11 But the younger widows refuse: for when they have begun to wax wanton against Christ, they will marry;
1Ti 5:12 Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith.

The same damnation that you would get for these sins. It definitely isn't eternal damnation in hell, and more than likely is the chastening of the Lord since that it what you will recieve for not judging yourself and not discerning the Lord's body. Unless you aren't saved, then you are going to hell already because you aren't cleansed from the blood, and taking the Lord's supper without being saved wouldn't make you go to hell any more than that.

Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Last edited by kevinvw; 06-09-2009 at 03:00 AM.
  #20  
Old 06-09-2009, 03:40 AM
kevinvw kevinvw is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 73
Default

I think you guys keep overlooking the fact that it is our soul that is now sinless, being put off from the body of sins of the flesh. Our flesh is not sanctified or righteous in any respect unless we work for it by mortifying the deeds of the flesh. Our soul and our spirit have been redeemed, but our body is still waiting for the coming of the Lord Jesus.
 

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

The King James Bible Page SwordSearcher Bible Software

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:06 AM.

Powered by vBulletin®, Copyright vBulletin Solutions Inc.

Website © AV1611.Com.
Posts represent only the opinions of users of this forum and do not necessarily represent the opinions of the webmaster.

Software for Believing Bible Study

 
Contact Us AV1611.Com