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  #21  
Old 06-23-2009, 05:52 PM
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Jassy Jassy is offline
 
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Dear Jassy, you have a sweet and kind spirit. I am glad you are out of a restrictive church....I haven't belonged to a church of any kind for many, many years.

There is no need for you to pray that I will come to KNOW Christ for I do. But, I thank you for the kind thought.
Whirlwind, thank you for the compliment. I assure you, however, I can be very firm (hard-nosed, if necessary) regarding what the Bible says or does NOT say. I will definitely defend the truth.

In another post here, you mentioned that the Sabbath meant REST... does that mean that you keep the Sabbath or that you think that the Body of Christ TODAY is to keep the Sabbath? I am just curious about what you believe. I do NOT believe that we are under any obligation to keep the Sabbath today.

I am also currently not a member of any church. I have found NO KJVO church anywhere near me. I am also Deaf, and would require a sign language interpreter, in order to "hear" a sermon. There are some websites that have sermons from some OLD KJV ministers in written format online. I gratefully utilize that to grow in grace and knowledge - ALWAYS reading the Bible for myself to compare and check on what is said (Acts 17:11). I'm very wary of taking someone's word for something without checking it out for myself.

I hope that you will be as edified here as I have been.

Jassy
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  #22  
Old 06-23-2009, 06:38 PM
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Forrest Forrest is offline
 
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How do I refute false doctrine from Christians who say that we are "spiritual Israel" and, therefore, must keep the Law, including the Sabbath? This person keeps emailing me and telling me that I'm breaking the Law that we are supposed to be keeping by not observing the Sabbath.

Jassy
Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Thatís not hard to understand. Our identity is Jesus Christ! Not Jew. Not Greek. Not bond. Not free. Not male or female. We are one in Christ, sister.

Galatians 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Personally, I vehemently loathe ANY teaching that attempts to weaken, diminish, dissolve, damage, desecrate, or downplay my new life specifically in the person of the Lord Jesus Christ.

I recommend you faithfully keep proclaiming the message of Christ who is now our life and faithfully direct this gentleman, or anyone else for that matter, to the ONE who is preeminent in all things. The ONE in whom we are complete. What then is the promise? I am in Christ and now a CHRISTIAN by faith. Faith is the link we have with Abraham. Not national heritage.

Romans 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

Romans 4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Galatians 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Jesus alone, sister Jassy. The truth will set him free.
  #23  
Old 06-23-2009, 07:52 PM
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Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Thatís not hard to understand. Our identity is Jesus Christ! Not Jew. Not Greek. Not bond. Not free. Not male or female. We are one in Christ, sister.

Galatians 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Personally, I vehemently loathe ANY teaching that attempts to weaken, diminish, dissolve, damage, desecrate, or downplay my new life specifically in the person of the Lord Jesus Christ.

I recommend you faithfully keep proclaiming the message of Christ who is now our life and faithfully direct this gentleman, or anyone else for that matter, to the ONE who is preeminent in all things. The ONE in whom we are complete. What then is the promise? I am in Christ and now a CHRISTIAN by faith. Faith is the link we have with Abraham. Not national heritage.

Romans 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

Romans 4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Galatians 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Jesus alone, sister Jassy. The truth will set him free.
brother Forrest!
Very helpful!

Jassy
  #24  
Old 06-24-2009, 12:49 AM
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Brother Tony,

Thank you very kindly for your long, informative reply. I hope it isn't plagiarism to use some of what you have said in responding to the Sabbath-keeper. Very helpful! I would like so much to learn evangelism - because I find myself often in the position where it would be very useful. I often meet misled Christians or people that are of other religions who are curious about what I believe. I did take a course on evangelism quite a while back - and don't remember where it was from. I think that some of what they taught, I would have to disagree with now. Can you recommend anything to hone my skills in everyday meetings with people that I need to "evangelize" with. I believe that God calls ALL to do that - and that He gives us certain opportunities to do so. In the past, I've felt ashamed that I didn't have enough confidence to share my faith with someone. It was probably due to still going through a process of "deprogramming" from the "cultist" church I had formerly been involved in. I didn't feel that I had enough Scriptural knowledge. Now I am gaining such knowledge, yet I need more help and advice in evangelizing.

Any suggestions or advice for me?

Jassy
Jassy I don't hold a copyright on anything Sister, I didn't write it for you not to use in any way you wish so feel free. I write what I do here for anyone who gets edification from it

Sister, I understand your issue about witnessing, and it's human, and based on what you came from, understandable. If you have a Bible program with word search or a concordance for a regular Bible, look up the words "bold" and "boldly" in Acts and Paul's letters. Being bold in witnessing for Christ is not like herding cattle, a cop breaking down a door, it's done out of charity for the person you witness to. We are sealed by the Holy Spirit, they aren't, but it's done out of humility, He died for them the same as us. We don't become bulletproof when we are saved, we aren't better than anyone. That's why in the face of abuse to be longsuffering with them, same as you have to be sometimes in internet Bible forums.

Jassy, another unpleasant truth is this: The greatest opposition you will receive is not from sinners, it'll be from Christians. If you don't have the Denominational Background Check, a "profession of faith and obedience" that other Christians can see, well, you are a "false teacher slipped in unawares." This is why I say you can't pull any punches when witnessing as to life after Salvation. See, the Cadillac Crowd run from this verse:

2Ti 2:3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.

Do you know anything easy about being a soldier? I was 12, a child more or less, and the day after I was saved my grandmother died the next day 10 minutes before I got home from school, I walked up to the house and there was a hearse in the driveway. I have a cousin I never met, she was 21, she got saved through Pat Robertson's TV show, one of the few times they actually preached the gospel. Two weeks later she didn't win the lottery, her car stalled on the train tracks, the driver was drunk and went right through her car like a knife through whipped cream and killed her. Sister, there was't hardley anything left to bury. Does "Christianity" make your life "better"?

No, it makes it possible.

This is our "commission" for today:

II Cor. 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christís stead, be ye reconciled to God.

Ro 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

1Co 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

I'll look up those threads we wrote to Jassy, you do with what I wrote anything you want to. That's why I wrote them, to be used and studied and a help.

Grace and peace Sister

Tony
  #25  
Old 06-24-2009, 05:09 AM
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Fredoheaven Fredoheaven is offline
 
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Originally Posted by whirlwind View Post
And....we are a "nation of God."


And...we are if we include ourselves in those of the "first resurrection."

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.


We are His people. We are redeemed to Him. We carry His name....Christian. We are redeemed from Egypt (symbolic of the world and it's temptations) and from all nations and false religion.





Yes, Israel is still Israel. Israel is His family.....His chosen, all of them/us.

Israel means....the prince that prevails with God and...it is The Kingdom.
Sorry sir, Exodus 19:6 is about "... These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel." not unless thou art a Jew but we are not.

Sorry sir, Rev. 20:6 pertains to the future where the Devil, the old serpent and Satan will be bound for a thousand (1000) years and Christ shall establish his Millinenial Kingdom.

Sorry sir, while we may be called the children of God, we are not a children of Jacob(Israel), while we are redeemed because Christ redeemed us through his blood, God went in 2 Samuel 7:23 to redeemed and to make him a name, to the nation of Israel.

God is not through with the nation of Israel.

Romans 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
Romans 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

The details of Israel's future restoration and salvation are given in Zech.12:10-13:1.

Yes, Israel is still Israel.Filipino are still Filipino
  #26  
Old 06-24-2009, 05:40 AM
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Sorry sir, Exodus 19:6 is about "... These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel." not unless thou art a Jew but we are not.

There are many "children of Israel" and a few of them are Jews. All are Israelites but not all are Jews.

Quote:
Sorry sir, Rev. 20:6 pertains to the future where the Devil, the old serpent and Satan will be bound for a thousand (1000) years and Christ shall establish his Millinenial Kingdom.
Yes it does. I'm sorry I gave you the impression I thought otherwise.

Quote:
Sorry sir, while we may be called the children of God, we are not a children of Jacob(Israel), while we are redeemed because Christ redeemed us through his blood, God went in 2 Samuel 7:23 to redeemed and to make him a name, to the nation of Israel.

Through adoption we are also of the nation of Israel. By that I don't mean the "nation of Israel" that was founded in 1948. I refer to the family of Israel....God's nation.

Quote:
God is not through with the nation of Israel.

Romans 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
Romans 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

The details of Israel's future restoration and salvation are given in Zech.12:10-13:1.

Yes, Israel is still Israel.Filipino are still Filipino

It is the "house of Judah," or Jews (tribes of Judah and Benjamin) that are in present day Israel. However, the "house of Israel," who are not Jews were scattered around the world. They never returned. It was to those lost sheep that Christ was sent to. Who carries His name today?
Matthew 15:24 But He answered and said, "I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
  #27  
Old 06-24-2009, 02:59 PM
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After Israel (Northern Kingdom) and Judah (Southern Kingdom) split.
2 Chronicles 11
1. And when Rehoboam was come to Jerusalem, he gathered of the house of Judah and Benjamin an hundred and fourscore thousand chosen men, which were warriors, to fight against Israel, that he might bring the kingdom again to Rehoboam.

2. But the word of the LORD came to Shemaiah the man of God, saying,

3. Speak unto Rehoboam the son of Solomon, king of Judah, and to all Israel in Judah and Benjamin, saying,

4. Thus saith the LORD, Ye shall not go up, nor fight against your brethren: return every man to his house: for this thing is done of me. And they obeyed the words of the LORD, and returned from going against Jeroboam.

5. And Rehoboam dwelt in Jerusalem, and built cities for defence in Judah.

6. He built even Bethlehem, and Etam, and Tekoa,

7. And Bethzur, and Shoco, and Adullam,

8. And Gath, and Mareshah, and Ziph,

9. And Adoraim, and Lachish, and Azekah,

10. And Zorah, and Aijalon, and Hebron, which are in Judah and in Benjamin fenced cities.

11. And he fortified the strong holds, and put captains in them, and store of victual, and of oil and wine.

12. And in every several city he put shields and spears, and made them exceeding strong, having Judah and Benjamin on his side.

13. And the priests and the Levites that were in all Israel resorted to him out of all their coasts.

14. For the Levites left their suburbs and their possession, and came to Judah and Jerusalem: for Jeroboam and his sons had cast them off from executing the priest's office unto the LORD:

15. And he ordained him priests for the high places, and for the devils, and for the calves which he had made.

16. And after them out of all the tribes of Israel such as set their hearts to seek the LORD God of Israel came to Jerusalem, to sacrifice unto the LORD God of their fathers.
After Israel was taken into captivity
2 Chronicles 30
1. And Hezekiah sent to all Israel and Judah, and wrote letters also to Ephraim and Manasseh, that they should come to the house of the LORD at Jerusalem, to keep the passover unto the LORD God of Israel.

2. For the king had taken counsel, and his princes, and all the congregation in Jerusalem, to keep the passover in the second month.

3. For they could not keep it at that time, because the priests had not sanctified themselves sufficiently, neither had the people gathered themselves together to Jerusalem.

4. And the thing pleased the king and all the congregation.

5. So they established a decree to make proclamation throughout all Israel, from Beersheba even to Dan, that they should come to keep the passover unto the LORD God of Israel at Jerusalem: for they had not done it of a long time in such sort as it was written.

6. So the posts went with the letters from the king and his princes throughout all Israel and Judah, and according to the commandment of the king, saying, Ye children of Israel, turn again unto the LORD God of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, and he will return to the remnant of you, that are escaped out of the hand of the kings of Assyria.

7. And be not ye like your fathers, and like your brethren, which trespassed against the LORD God of their fathers, who therefore gave them up to desolation, as ye see.

8. Now be ye not stiffnecked, as your fathers were, but yield yourselves unto the LORD, and enter into his sanctuary, which he hath sanctified for ever: and serve the LORD your God, that the fierceness of his wrath may turn away from you.

9. For if ye turn again unto the LORD, your brethren and your children shall find compassion before them that lead them captive, so that they shall come again into this land: for the LORD your God is gracious and merciful, and will not turn away his face from you, if ye return unto him.

10. So the posts passed from city to city through the country of Ephraim and Manasseh even unto Zebulun: but they laughed them to scorn, and mocked them.

11. Nevertheless divers of Asher and Manasseh and of Zebulun humbled themselves, and came to Jerusalem.

12. Also in Judah the hand of God was to give them one heart to do the commandment of the king and of the princes, by the word of the LORD.

13. And there assembled at Jerusalem much people to keep the feast of unleavened bread in the second month, a very great congregation.

14. And they arose and took away the altars that were in Jerusalem, and all the altars for incense took they away, and cast them into the brook Kidron.

15. Then they killed the passover on the fourteenth day of the second month: and the priests and the Levites were ashamed, and sanctified themselves, and brought in the burnt offerings into the house of the LORD.

16. And they stood in their place after their manner, according to the law of Moses the man of God: the priests sprinkled the blood, which they received of the hand of the Levites.

17. For there were many in the congregation that were not sanctified: therefore the Levites had the charge of the killing of the passovers for every one that was not clean, to sanctify them unto the LORD.

18. For a multitude of the people, even many of Ephraim, and Manasseh, Issachar, and Zebulun, had not cleansed themselves, yet did they eat the passover otherwise than it was written. But Hezekiah prayed for them, saying, The good LORD pardon every one

19. That prepareth his heart to seek God, the LORD God of his fathers, though he be not cleansed according to the purification of the sanctuary.

20. And the LORD hearkened to Hezekiah, and healed the people.

21. And the children of Israel that were present at Jerusalem kept the feast of unleavened bread seven days with great gladness: and the Levites and the priests praised the LORD day by day, singing with loud instruments unto the LORD.

22. And Hezekiah spake comfortably unto all the Levites that taught the good knowledge of the LORD: and they did eat throughout the feast seven days, offering peace offerings, and making confession to the LORD God of their fathers.

23. And the whole assembly took counsel to keep other seven days: and they kept other seven days with gladness.

24. For Hezekiah king of Judah did give to the congregation a thousand bullocks and seven thousand sheep; and the princes gave to the congregation a thousand bullocks and ten thousand sheep: and a great number of priests sanctified themselves.

25. And all the congregation of Judah, with the priests and the Levites, and all the congregation that came out of Israel, and the strangers that came out of the land of Israel, and that dwelt in Judah, rejoiced.


2 Chronicles 31
1. Now when all this was finished, all Israel that were present went out to the cities of Judah, and brake the images in pieces, and cut down the groves, and threw down the high places and the altars out of all Judah and Benjamin, in Ephraim also and Manasseh, until they had utterly destroyed them all. Then all the children of Israel returned, every man to his possession, into their own cities.

2. And Hezekiah appointed the courses of the priests and the Levites after their courses, every man according to his service, the priests and Levites for burnt offerings and for peace offerings, to minister, and to give thanks, and to praise in the gates of the tents of the LORD.

3. He appointed also the king's portion of his substance for the burnt offerings, to wit, for the morning and evening burnt offerings, and the burnt offerings for the sabbaths, and for the new moons, and for the set feasts, as it is written in the law of the LORD.

4. Moreover he commanded the people that dwelt in Jerusalem to give the portion of the priests and the Levites, that they might be encouraged in the law of the LORD.

5. And as soon as the commandment came abroad, the children of Israel brought in abundance the firstfruits of corn, wine, and oil, and honey, and of all the increase of the field; and the tithe of all things brought they in abundantly.

6. And concerning the children of Israel and Judah, that dwelt in the cities of Judah, they also brought in the tithe of oxen and sheep, and the tithe of holy things which were consecrated unto the LORD their God, and laid them by heaps.



2 Chronicles 34
1. Josiah was eight years old when he began to reign, and he reigned in Jerusalem one and thirty years.

2. And he did that which was right in the sight of the LORD, and walked in the ways of David his father, and declined neither to the right hand, nor to the left.

3. For in the eighth year of his reign, while he was yet young, he began to seek after the God of David his father: and in the twelfth year he began to purge Judah and Jerusalem from the high places, and the groves, and the carved images, and the molten images.

4. And they brake down the altars of Baalim in his presence; and the images, that were on high above them, he cut down; and the groves, and the carved images, and the molten images, he brake in pieces, and made dust of them, and strowed it upon the graves of them that had sacrificed unto them.

5. And he burnt the bones of the priests upon their altars, and cleansed Judah and Jerusalem.

6. And so did he in the cities of Manasseh, and Ephraim, and Simeon, even unto Naphtali, with their mattocks round about.

7. And when he had broken down the altars and the groves, and had beaten the graven images into powder, and cut down all the idols throughout all the land of Israel, he returned to Jerusalem.

8. Now in the eighteenth year of his reign, when he had purged the land, and the house, he sent Shaphan the son of Azaliah, and Maaseiah the governor of the city, and Joah the son of Joahaz the recorder, to repair the house of the LORD his God.

9. And when they came to Hilkiah the high priest, they delivered the money that was brought into the house of God, which the Levites that kept the doors had gathered of the hand of Manasseh and Ephraim, and of all the remnant of Israel, and of all Judah and Benjamin; and they returned to Jerusalem.
Apparently James was mixed up about the 10 lost tribes.
James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
  #28  
Old 06-24-2009, 04:06 PM
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Fredoheaven Fredoheaven is offline
 
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There are many "children of Israel" and a few of them are Jews. All are Israelites but not all are Jews.


Through adoption we are also of the nation of Israel. By that I don't mean the "nation of Israel" that was founded in 1948. I refer to the family of Israel....God's nation.


It is the "house of Judah," or Jews (tribes of Judah and Benjamin) that are in present day Israel. However, the "house of Israel," who are not Jews were scattered around the world. They never returned. It was to those lost sheep that Christ was sent to. Who carries His name today?

Matthew 15:24 But He answered and said, "I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
Sorry sir, I am not adopted as a child of Israel since I became a believer in Christ, Ive been adopted or received a position for being a son of God.

Galatians 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
1 John 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Sorry sir, it seems it gave you a problem of the statement of Apostle Paul in Romans 9:6, please refer to CKG post #14. May I add, that since this pertains to the flesh many children of Israel have gone to an interracial marriage and that their children produce a mixed blood hence, not all of Israel are Israel. The context of this particular passage do tell us that only those the seed of Isaac be called Israel. So that King Melkizedick of Salem, the priest of God could not be called the son of Israel.

Romans 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
(Not all residing in Israel, are israelites)
Romans 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
(Only those of the seed of Isaac be called Israel. Since I am a beliver in Christ, I am adopted to be in line with Abraham by faith. And be of Abraham by faith the scripture which cannot be broken told me, I do not belong to the famiuly of Isarreal.)

Last edited by Fredoheaven; 06-24-2009 at 04:17 PM.
  #29  
Old 06-24-2009, 05:56 PM
whirlwind
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After Israel (Northern Kingdom) and Judah (Southern Kingdom) split.
2 Chronicles 11

16. And after them out of all the tribes of Israel such as set their hearts to seek the LORD God of Israel came to Jerusalem, to sacrifice unto the LORD God of their fathers.

Yes, some of the other tribes that wished to worship at the temple did so. They came to "sacrifice" but it didn't say to remain. Nor did it say all of, or many of, the house of Israel "came to Jerusalem." Did some of the other tribes stay and live in Jerusalem. I'm sure they did but not the whole, or majority of, the "house of Israel."


Quote:
After Israel was taken into captivity

2 Chronicles 31
1. Now when all this was finished, all Israel that were present went out to the cities of Judah, and brake the images in pieces, and cut down the groves, and threw down the high places and the altars out of all Judah and Benjamin, in Ephraim also and Manasseh, until they had utterly destroyed them all. Then all the children of Israel returned, every man to his possession, into their own cities.


6. And concerning the children of Israel and Judah, that dwelt in the cities of Judah, they also brought in the tithe of oxen and sheep, and the tithe of holy things which were consecrated unto the LORD their God, and laid them by heaps.

I believe they are those that came to worship there.


Quote:
2 Chronicles 34

9. And when they came to Hilkiah the high priest, they delivered the money that was brought into the house of God, which the Levites that kept the doors had gathered of the hand of Manasseh and Ephraim, and of all the remnant of Israel, and of all Judah and Benjamin; and they returned to Jerusalem.[/INDENT]

Apparently James was mixed up about the 10 lost tribes.
James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
Yes...they were scattered abroad. James writes to them and us. Christ was sent to them and He sent His disciples to them and us.
  #30  
Old 06-24-2009, 11:16 PM
KingSolomon1611 KingSolomon1611 is offline
 
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Yes, some of the other tribes that wished to worship at the temple did so. They came to "sacrifice" but it didn't say to remain. Nor did it say all of, or many of, the house of Israel "came to Jerusalem." Did some of the other tribes stay and live in Jerusalem. I'm sure they did but not the whole, or majority of, the "house of Israel."







I believe they are those that came to worship there.




Yes...they were scattered abroad. James writes to them and us. Christ was sent to them and He sent His disciples to them and us.
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