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  #11  
Old 05-31-2009, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by greenbear View Post
Win,
That sounds nice, too, except that some people die twice and some don't die at all. How do you account for that? Lazarus didn't die the second death even though he died twice because the second death is the lake of fire. i struggled with this for years and this is the only way I can reconcile it. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't see what the alternative would be.

Jen
Jen, brother Win, I'm going to add a thread in Bible Studies called The Man Who Could Not Die that will cover this verse in Hebrews and specifically Enoch and The Rapture of the Church should clear up all questions on this.

Grace and peace

Tony
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  #12  
Old 05-31-2009, 11:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Winman View Post
Greenbear

That sounds nice, but my Bible says ONCE in Hebrews 9:27. So to me, the Bible does indeed say you only die once (the 1st death) and then the judgement. The Bible does indeed mention the number of times you die.

The definition for "once" in this verse is:

1) once, one time

2) once for all

Seems pretty clear and simple to me.
It looks like, in the Bible, there are exceptions to that rule.
  #13  
Old 06-01-2009, 12:16 AM
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It looks like, in the Bible, there are exceptions to that rule.
Enoch being the Second Witness was the teaching of Herbert W. Armstrong for the same reason. Men can't "die twice". Of course, Armstrong couldn't put two verses together with two bulldozers and 16 tons of Super Glue.

The Two Witnesses are Moses and Elijah, the two Candlesticks and the Two Olive Trees that stand before the throne of God in Zechariah. Moses turned water to blood, Elijah held up the rain. I'll be doing a Bible Study on Enoch as soon as the antibiotics kicks in.

Grace and peace

Tony
  #14  
Old 06-07-2009, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by tonybones2112 View Post
Jen, brother Win, I'm going to add a thread in Bible Studies called The Man Who Could Not Die that will cover this verse in Hebrews and specifically Enoch and The Rapture of the Church should clear up all questions on this.

Grace and peace

Tony
Hi, brother Tony. I always appreciate it when you share your insights into the scriptures. I would like to see your study on Heb 9:27 if you wouldn't mind posting it. Thanks! Hope you are feeling better.

grace and peace,

Jennifer
  #15  
Old 06-07-2009, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winman View Post
Greenbear

That sounds nice, but my Bible says ONCE in Hebrews 9:27. So to me, the Bible does indeed say you only die once (the 1st death) and then the judgement. The Bible does indeed mention the number of times you die.

The definition for "once" in this verse is:

1) once, one time

2) once for all

Seems pretty clear and simple to me.
The emphasis of Hebrews 9:27 seems to be judgment more than a statement about how many times a person dies. As far as death it is a statement about people in general and not everyone specifically. The Bible speaks of a group of people who will not experience death at all.
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. (1 Corinthians 15:51-52)

For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (1 Thessalonians 4:14-17)
  #16  
Old 06-07-2009, 09:22 PM
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CKG
The emphasis of Hebrews 9:27 seems to be judgment more than a statement about how many times a person dies. As far as death it is a statement about people in general and not everyone specifically.
CKG,
That is very well said. The second death is when death and hell are cast into the Lake of Fire following the great white throne judgement.

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
  #17  
Old 06-08-2009, 12:19 AM
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Some reasons why I believe the two witnesses of Revelation 11 are Moses and Elijah:
1. The miracles done by the two witnesses are the same miracles done by Moses and Elijah.
2. Moses and Elijah are two people that are often associated with the Second Coming:
1) Moses and Elijah are both mentioned by the OT prophets in connection with the coming of Christ.
2) Moses and Elijah appeared with Christ at the Mount of Transfiguration, which is a foreshadow of the Second Coming.
  #18  
Old 06-08-2009, 01:08 AM
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Originally Posted by greenbear View Post
Hi, brother Tony. I always appreciate it when you share your insights into the scriptures. I would like to see your study on Heb 9:27 if you wouldn't mind posting it. Thanks! Hope you are feeling better.

grace and peace,

Jennifer
On it's way sister, I don't have bronchitis, I have 1st stage non-specific pneumonia. Ain;t the first time I been misdiagnosed and won't be the last.

grace and peace

Tony
  #19  
Old 06-08-2009, 01:11 AM
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Originally Posted by CKG View Post
The emphasis of Hebrews 9:27 seems to be judgment more than a statement about how many times a person dies. As far as death it is a statement about people in general and not everyone specifically. The Bible speaks of a group of people who will not experience death at all.
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. (1 Corinthians 15:51-52)

For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (1 Thessalonians 4:14-17)
Excellent point Craig, and also sound, Biblical truth. Enoch is a Bible type, a like figure, not of the church or of the Rapture, but those alive when Christ Raptures the church and will not taste death.

Grace and peace

Tony
  #20  
Old 06-14-2009, 05:39 AM
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Originally Posted by kevinvw View Post
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

The second death is eternity in the lake of fire, not dying a second time. The son of the Shunamite woman died twice, Lazarus died twice, and many other people died twice, but I think we can say at least Lazarus is not waiting for the lake of fire.
The only problem isn't dying twice but the fact that Moses will already have a glorified body, either at the time of Christ's resurrection or at the time of the rapture. He could not die again in a glorified body. I go with Enoch and Elijah.
 

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