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Old 05-22-2009, 07:26 PM
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johnlf johnlf is offline
 
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Default The Two Witnesses

Scripture tells us about two witnesses who will prophesy 1260 days in Jerusalem. Who are these witnesses? Letís begin with the main verse, Book of Revelation chapter 11, verses 3 through 12:

11:3
And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
11:4
These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
11:5
And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
11:6
These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
11:7
And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
11:8
And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
11:9
And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
11:10
And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
11:11
And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
11:12
And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.



First note the length of the days of their prophecy, 1260 days or three and one half years. Then note the powers of the two witnesses. They can cause it to not rain for three and one half years, turn water to blood, and smite the earth with plagues. First, who in the Bible caused it to not rain for three and one half years? The Book of James tells us:


5:17
Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months.



Next, who had power over waters to turn them to blood and to smite the earth with all plagues? The Book of Exodus tells us:


7:20
And Moses and Aaron did so, as the LORD commanded; and he lifted up the rod, and smote the waters that were in the river, in the sight of Pharaoh, and in the sight of his servants; and all the waters that were in the river were turned to blood.




9:13
And the LORD said unto Moses, Rise up early in the morning, and stand before Pharaoh, and say unto him, Thus saith the LORD God of the Hebrews, Let my people go, that they may serve me.
9:14
For I will at this time send all my plagues upon thine heart, and upon thy servants, and upon thy people; that thou mayest know that there is none like me in all the earth.



So, as you can tell, I am going to argue that these two witnesses are Moses and Elijah. But why would God send back Moses and Elijah? One clue comes from The Book of Malachi :


4:5
Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
4:6
And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.




So, we already know from the Scriptures that Elijah is to come back before the day of the Lord, but what about Moses? The Book of 2 Kings tells us that Elijah is still alive because he was taken alive into heaven:



2:11
And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.



So, Elijah is still alive and is able to come back and die in Jerusalem like the Scriptures say. But what about Moses? How can Moses come back and die when the scripture tells us that he is already dead? Or is he? The Book of Deuteronomy tells us:



34:5
So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD.
34:6
And he buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, over against Bethpeor: but no man knoweth of his sepulchre unto this day.



Notice that no man buried Moses, God buried him. Why? What if God was planning to resurrect him there? If God resurrected him right after he died then he could still be alive today if God is preserving him alive. And this does not seem as unlikely as it first appears in light of the following verse. The Book of Jude tells us:


1:9
Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.




Have you ever wondered why Michael was contending with Satan over the body of Moses. Could it be that the Lord was going to resurrect him? But why would he have to resurrect him at that time unless Moses needed to be alive for something that would come later? Let us look at where the Scriptures tell us the prophets all die? And Moses and Elijah, being arguably two of the greatest prophets in the old testament, should certainly die where the rest of their fellow prophets died. And whereís that? The Book of Luke tells use:


13:33
Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem.



So, we know that the powers of these two witnesses are like those of Moses and Elijah. And we know that Elijah will be sent back before the day of the Lord. We also know that Elijah never died and thereís a very good chance that Moses is still alive after being resurrected right after his death. Finally we know that Jesus himself said that it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem. Now let us examine what is referred to as the mount of transfiguration, the Book of Luke tells us:




9:28
And it came to pass about an eight days after these sayings, he took Peter and John and James, and went up into a mountain to pray.
9:29
And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment was white and glistering.
9:30
And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias:
9:31
Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.



Did you ever wonder what Jesus was talking to Moses and Elijah about up on that mount? Well the scripture tells us very clearly that the topic of the conversation was the imminent decease of Jesus, which he would accomplish at Jerusalem. Did Jesus need to consult them about his imminent decease? Or perhaps they needed to consult him because they as well were going to have to face their own decease in Jerusalem.


I am convinced that the two witnesses will be Moses and Elijah, and I think the evidence from the scriptures bears this out. Godís Word is a beautiful tapestry of his thoughts and this is another wonderful example of that. Oh that men would praise the Lord for his wonderful works!



Book of 1 Corinthians

2:10
But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
2:11
For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
2:12
Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
2:13
Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
The King James Bible Page SwordSearcher Bible Software
  #2  
Old 05-22-2009, 07:51 PM
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tonybones2112 tonybones2112 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnlf View Post
Scripture tells us about two witnesses who will prophesy 1260 days in Jerusalem. Who are these witnesses? Letís begin with the main verse, Book of Revelation chapter 11, verses 3 through 12:

11:3
And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
11:4
These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
11:5
And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
11:6
These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
11:7
And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
11:8
And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
11:9
And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
11:10
And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
11:11
And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
11:12
And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.



First note the length of the days of their prophecy, 1260 days or three and one half years. Then note the powers of the two witnesses. They can cause it to not rain for three and one half years, turn water to blood, and smite the earth with plagues. First, who in the Bible caused it to not rain for three and one half years? The Book of James tells us:


5:17
Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months.



Next, who had power over waters to turn them to blood and to smite the earth with all plagues? The Book of Exodus tells us:


7:20
And Moses and Aaron did so, as the LORD commanded; and he lifted up the rod, and smote the waters that were in the river, in the sight of Pharaoh, and in the sight of his servants; and all the waters that were in the river were turned to blood.




9:13
And the LORD said unto Moses, Rise up early in the morning, and stand before Pharaoh, and say unto him, Thus saith the LORD God of the Hebrews, Let my people go, that they may serve me.
9:14
For I will at this time send all my plagues upon thine heart, and upon thy servants, and upon thy people; that thou mayest know that there is none like me in all the earth.



So, as you can tell, I am going to argue that these two witnesses are Moses and Elijah. But why would God send back Moses and Elijah? One clue comes from The Book of Malachi :


4:5
Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
4:6
And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.




So, we already know from the Scriptures that Elijah is to come back before the day of the Lord, but what about Moses? The Book of 2 Kings tells us that Elijah is still alive because he was taken alive into heaven:



2:11
And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.



So, Elijah is still alive and is able to come back and die in Jerusalem like the Scriptures say. But what about Moses? How can Moses come back and die when the scripture tells us that he is already dead? Or is he? The Book of Deuteronomy tells us:



34:5
So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD.
34:6
And he buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, over against Bethpeor: but no man knoweth of his sepulchre unto this day.



Notice that no man buried Moses, God buried him. Why? What if God was planning to resurrect him there? If God resurrected him right after he died then he could still be alive today if God is preserving him alive. And this does not seem as unlikely as it first appears in light of the following verse. The Book of Jude tells us:


1:9
Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.




Have you ever wondered why Michael was contending with Satan over the body of Moses. Could it be that the Lord was going to resurrect him? But why would he have to resurrect him at that time unless Moses needed to be alive for something that would come later? Let us look at where the Scriptures tell us the prophets all die? And Moses and Elijah, being arguably two of the greatest prophets in the old testament, should certainly die where the rest of their fellow prophets died. And whereís that? The Book of Luke tells use:


13:33
Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem.



So, we know that the powers of these two witnesses are like those of Moses and Elijah. And we know that Elijah will be sent back before the day of the Lord. We also know that Elijah never died and thereís a very good chance that Moses is still alive after being resurrected right after his death. Finally we know that Jesus himself said that it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem. Now let us examine what is referred to as the mount of transfiguration, the Book of Luke tells us:




9:28
And it came to pass about an eight days after these sayings, he took Peter and John and James, and went up into a mountain to pray.
9:29
And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment was white and glistering.
9:30
And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias:
9:31
Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.



Did you ever wonder what Jesus was talking to Moses and Elijah about up on that mount? Well the scripture tells us very clearly that the topic of the conversation was the imminent decease of Jesus, which he would accomplish at Jerusalem. Did Jesus need to consult them about his imminent decease? Or perhaps they needed to consult him because they as well were going to have to face their own decease in Jerusalem.


I am convinced that the two witnesses will be Moses and Elijah, and I think the evidence from the scriptures bears this out. Godís Word is a beautiful tapestry of his thoughts and this is another wonderful example of that. Oh that men would praise the Lord for his wonderful works!



Book of 1 Corinthians

2:10
But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
2:11
For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
2:12
Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
2:13
Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
Re 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

And what if their executions take place around December 25, John? How many Catholics go in the Rapture, and how many are left behind?

Very few and a whoooole lot.

Grace and peace

Tony
  #3  
Old 05-30-2009, 11:29 AM
Winman Winman is offline
 
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John

I thought your study was excellent, I have wondered who the two witnesses in Revelations would be myself.

The only problem I see is Moses. He has already died, so if he were to die again, this would be two deaths. That is not found in scripture for a believer.

Rev 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Then again, I could be wrong, this verse does not say a believer could not die a second death, it says they shall not be hurt of the second death.

However, Enoch would qualify, as he did not die.
  #4  
Old 05-30-2009, 12:42 PM
kevinvw kevinvw is offline
 
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Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

The second death is eternity in the lake of fire, not dying a second time. The son of the Shunamite woman died twice, Lazarus died twice, and many other people died twice, but I think we can say at least Lazarus is not waiting for the lake of fire.
  #5  
Old 05-30-2009, 01:17 PM
Winman Winman is offline
 
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I am aware of those who were raised from the dead. But what about Hebrews 9:27?

Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

I am not saying you are wrong, but I have always wondered if those who were raised from the dead died the "first" death?
  #6  
Old 05-30-2009, 02:05 PM
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greenbear greenbear is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winman View Post
I am aware of those who were raised from the dead. But what about Hebrews 9:27?

Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

I am not saying you are wrong, but I have always wondered if those who were raised from the dead died the "first" death?
Some die twice like Lazarus and the girl that Jesus resurrected. Both times they die is considered the first death. There is only the first death and the second death mentioned in scripture. The second death is the Lake of Fire so lazarus, et al have to have experienced the first death twice.

Alternately, some don't die the first death, namely enoch and the translated saints.
  #7  
Old 05-30-2009, 02:09 PM
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tonybones2112 tonybones2112 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winman View Post
I am aware of those who were raised from the dead. But what about Hebrews 9:27?

Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

I am not saying you are wrong, but I have always wondered if those who were raised from the dead died the "first" death?
What kept Christ from raising Lazarus from the dead, Win? And so what can keep Him from raising Moses to die a second time? The Bible very clearly teaches against reincarnation, but Paul and Christ clearly state also Judas Iscariot will rise from the dead as the anti-Christ. Judas died and was judged, he went to "his own place". Enoch turned water to blood?

Grace and peace brother

Tony
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Old 05-30-2009, 02:46 PM
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greenbear greenbear is offline
 
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The First Death and the Second Death don't refer to how many times you have died. They are better defined as places or destinations. When a person dies the first death today he goes to Heaven or Hell. When he dies the second death he goes into the Lake of Fire. No one can die the second death until the Great White Throne Judgement.
  #9  
Old 05-30-2009, 07:10 PM
Winman Winman is offline
 
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Greenbear

That sounds nice, but my Bible says ONCE in Hebrews 9:27. So to me, the Bible does indeed say you only die once (the 1st death) and then the judgement. The Bible does indeed mention the number of times you die.

The definition for "once" in this verse is:

1) once, one time

2) once for all

Seems pretty clear and simple to me.
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Old 05-30-2009, 11:18 PM
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greenbear greenbear is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winman View Post
Greenbear

That sounds nice, but my Bible says ONCE in Hebrews 9:27. So to me, the Bible does indeed say you only die once (the 1st death) and then the judgement. The Bible does indeed mention the number of times you die.

The definition for "once" in this verse is:

1) once, one time

2) once for all

Seems pretty clear and simple to me.
Win,
That sounds nice, too, except that some people die twice and some don't die at all. How do you account for that? Lazarus didn't die the second death even though he died twice because the second death is the lake of fire. i struggled with this for years and this is the only way I can reconcile it. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't see what the alternative would be.

Jen
 

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