[CKG]

Originally Posted by greenbear

CKG,
These verses indicate to me that the events of Genesis 6:2 will happen again unless there are giants who survived being wiped out by Israel. The days of Noe are distinguished by the corruption of human flesh by fallen angels. Why would Jesus liken the last days before His second coming to the days of Noe if the events of Gen 6:2 and I assume you also mean on through 6:12 don't happen again? Do you think Jesus is only referring to the quick destruction, every imagination of man's heart being evil continually, the earth being filled with violence but not the other defining aspect of Gen 6 and Sodom and Gomorrah, namely going after strange flesh? It's true that Satan doesn't need to try to corrupt the messianic line in the last days so that much is different.

Why would Jesus liken the last days before His second coming to the days of Noe? If you read what it says, the attitude of the people in light of the coming judgment is the context of Matthew 24:37-41 and Luke 17:26-30. That is what Jesus is telling us and nothing else. They continued their lives with a "business as usual" mentality and ignored the coming judgment. This is the point Jesus is making.

Matthew 24
37. But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39. And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Luke 17
26. And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
27. They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
28. Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29. But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed

.

To say this is referring to another occurrence like the angels that sinned in Genesis 6 is to read something into it that is not there. The angels that sinned in copulating with women have been dealt with.

And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. (Jude 6)

For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; (2 Peter 2:4)

[greenbear]

Originally Posted by CKG

Why would Jesus liken the last days before His second coming to the days of Noe? If you read what it says, the attitude of the people in light of the coming judgment is the context of Matthew 24:37-41 and Luke 17:26-30. That is what Jesus is telling us and nothing else. They continued their lives with a "business as usual" mentality and ignored the coming judgment. This is the point Jesus is making.

Matthew 24
37. But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39. And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Luke 17
26. And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
27. They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
28. Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29. But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed

.

To say this is referring to another occurrence like the angels that sinned in Genesis 6 is to read something into it that is not there. The angels that sinned in copulating with women have been dealt with.

And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. (Jude 6)

For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; (2 Peter 2:4)

CKG,

You make a valid point. I'll have to think about that.

[pbiwolski]

Originally Posted by CKG

Why would Jesus liken the last days before His second coming to the days of Noe? If you read what it says, the attitude of the people in light of the coming judgment is the context of Matthew 24:37-41 and Luke 17:26-30. That is what Jesus is telling us and nothing else. They continued their lives with a "business as usual" mentality and ignored the coming judgment. This is the point Jesus is making.

Oh, that isn't all...

Unless I missed it, no one has yet referenced Daniel 2 in connection to the words of Christ mentioned aboved and Gen. 6.

Dan. 2:43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

There are the days of Noe in the future during the tribulation. And the wickedness condoned and encouraged by the presence of the Devil Incarnate is only comparable to the result of the sons of God cohabitting with the daughters of men. That wickedness that followed invited the judgment of God (flood) just as will the future.

[Brother Tim]

PB, re: Daniel 2:43.... bzzzz - sorry, does not match.

1 - This is prophecy of the Roman empire. It collapsed in part because as it spread, the control became disjointed due to incompatibility within the government structure because of intermingling with the captured nations.

2 - Mingling with the "seed of men" is not the same activity as "angelic seed" impregnating human women, unless we now have female-anatomy-equipped angels.

[Winman]

Bro Tim

Poor guy, you are getting ganged up on here.

Yes, I pointed out in the story of Lot, that the two angels took on the form of men, and even ate food. Now, isn't that the proof that the Lord used to prove he was not a spirit after his resurrection?

Luke 24:36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit. 38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. 40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
43 And he took it, and did eat before them.

So, to prove to his disciples he was not a spirit, Jesus allowed them to touch him. And when they still believed not, he asked for food and ate before them.

And this is similar to the two angels in Gen 19. They ate food, and they physically touched Lot, his wife, and two daughters.

So, they were in a physical form.

And we do not know if angels can have relations with men or not. But you cannot use the argument from Mark 12

Mark 12:25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.

This verse says we will not marry in the resurrection. There will be no need, for we will have no need to procreate. And angels do not need to procreate either, although those that left their habitation may have chosen to do so.

But I like to believe we will still retain all our body members in the resurrection. And I believe when these two angels in Gen 19 took on the form of man, that physically they had the normal body members of men.

And what kind of body will we have in the resurrection? If we die long before the Lord comes, our natural body will return to dust. But we will be raised with an incorruptable body. But it is a body, not spirit.

Job 19:26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:

Job says here after the worms destroy "this body", he will see God "in my flesh"

So, if we are like the angels as Jesus said, and our resurrected bodies will be flesh, wouldn't the angels be flesh also?

[Brother Tim]

The "as the angels" comparison has to do with marriage issue, not physical appearance or characteristics.

Poor guy, you are getting ganged up on here.

I'm used to it. I was on FFF for quite a while. It is not hard to stand alone when one knows that he is right.

Again, since various folks continue to make the "angels can take on physical bodies" argument [granted, the condition itself is obviously true - in essence, they are "in disguise"] so they acted as human men and had intercourse with human women, then it cannot be avoided that the improper mating is still possible if it happened in Genesis 6.

[greenbear]

Originally Posted by pbiwolski

Oh, that isn't all...

Unless I missed it, no one has yet referenced Daniel 2 in connection to the words of Christ mentioned aboved and Gen. 6.

Dan. 2:43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

There are the days of Noe in the future during the tribulation. And the wickedness condoned and encouraged by the presence of the Devil Incarnate is only comparable to the result of the sons of God cohabitting with the daughters of men. That wickedness that followed invited the judgment of God (flood) just as will the future.

My husband johnlf will be happy to see someone else make that connection with Dan 2:43 and Gen 6. We've never seen any one else talk about it before but then again we're not really in the loop. I'll be sure to make sure he reads this thread.

[CKG]

Originally Posted by pbiwolski

Oh, that isn't all...

Unless I missed it, no one has yet referenced Daniel 2 in connection to the words of Christ mentioned aboved and Gen. 6.

Dan. 2:43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

There are the days of Noe in the future during the tribulation. And the wickedness condoned and encouraged by the presence of the Devil Incarnate is only comparable to the result of the sons of God cohabitting with the daughters of men. That wickedness that followed invited the judgment of God (flood) just as will the future.

I’m not sure there is a relationship between Genesis 6 and Daniel 2:43. Whether you believe, accept, or comprehend Genesis 6, it is pretty clear in what it is saying.

Genesis 6
1And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
2That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
3And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
4There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

The Bible makes reference to 4 persons or person called the son of God or sons of God.

1. Jesus - Mark 1:1, John 20:31, Daniel 3:25
2. Adam - Luke 3:38
3. Believers - John 1:12, Romans 8:14, Philippians 2:15, 1 John 3:1, 1 John 3:2
4. Angels - Job 1:6, Job 2:1, Job 38:7

It's safe to say you can eliminate the first three as having reference to Genesis 6. That leaves number 4. I personally do not believe the events of Genesis 6:2 will happen again.

And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. (Jude 6)

For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; (2 Peter 2:4)

Daniel 2:43 is in a different context which is talking about coming kingdoms as Daniel interprets Nebuchadnezzar’s dream. The "they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men:" seems to suggest that this kingdom will be a mixture of people and ideaologies versus a predominant Babylonian or Greek empire.

A couple of cross references.

Ezra 9:2 For they have taken of their daughters for themselves, and for their sons: so that the holy seed have mingled themselves with the people of those lands: yea, the hand of the princes and rulers hath been chief in this trespass.

Psalm 106:35 But were mingled among the heathen, and learned their works.


Daniel 2
1And in the second year of the reign of Nebuchadnezzar Nebuchadnezzar dreamed dreams, wherewith his spirit was troubled, and his sleep brake from him.
2Then the king commanded to call the magicians, and the astrologers, and the sorcerers, and the Chaldeans, for to shew the king his dreams. So they came and stood before the king.
3And the king said unto them, I have dreamed a dream, and my spirit was troubled to know the dream.
4Then spake the Chaldeans to the king in Syriack, O king, live for ever: tell thy servants the dream, and we will shew the interpretation.
5The king answered and said to the Chaldeans, The thing is gone from me: if ye will not make known unto me the dream, with the interpretation thereof, ye shall be cut in pieces, and your houses shall be made a dunghill.
6But if ye shew the dream, and the interpretation thereof, ye shall receive of me gifts and rewards and great honour: therefore shew me the dream, and the interpretation thereof.
7They answered again and said, Let the king tell his servants the dream, and we will shew the interpretation of it.
8The king answered and said, I know of certainty that ye would gain the time, because ye see the thing is gone from me.
9But if ye will not make known unto me the dream, there is but one decree for you: for ye have prepared lying and corrupt words to speak before me, till the time be changed: therefore tell me the dream, and I shall know that ye can shew me the interpretation thereof.
10The Chaldeans answered before the king, and said, There is not a man upon the earth that can shew the king's matter: therefore there is no king, lord, nor ruler, that asked such things at any magician, or astrologer, or Chaldean.
11And it is a rare thing that the king requireth, and there is none other that can shew it before the king, except the gods, whose dwelling is not with flesh.
12For this cause the king was angry and very furious, and commanded to destroy all the wise men of Babylon.
13And the decree went forth that the wise men should be slain; and they sought Daniel and his fellows to be slain.
14Then Daniel answered with counsel and wisdom to Arioch the captain of the king's guard, which was gone forth to slay the wise men of Babylon:
15He answered and said to Arioch the king's captain, Why is the decree so hasty from the king? Then Arioch made the thing known to Daniel.
16Then Daniel went in, and desired of the king that he would give him time, and that he would shew the king the interpretation.
17Then Daniel went to his house, and made the thing known to Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah, his companions:
18That they would desire mercies of the God of heaven concerning this secret; that Daniel and his fellows should not perish with the rest of the wise men of Babylon.
19Then was the secret revealed unto Daniel in a night vision. Then Daniel blessed the God of heaven.
20Daniel answered and said, Blessed be the name of God for ever and ever: for wisdom and might are his:
21And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding:
22He revealeth the deep and secret things: he knoweth what is in the darkness, and the light dwelleth with him.
23I thank thee, and praise thee, O thou God of my fathers, who hast given me wisdom and might, and hast made known unto me now what we desired of thee: for thou hast now made known unto us the king's matter.
24Therefore Daniel went in unto Arioch, whom the king had ordained to destroy the wise men of Babylon: he went and said thus unto him; Destroy not the wise men of Babylon: bring me in before the king, and I will shew unto the king the interpretation.
25Then Arioch brought in Daniel before the king in haste, and said thus unto him, I have found a man of the captives of Judah, that will make known unto the king the interpretation.
26The king answered and said to Daniel, whose name was Belteshazzar, Art thou able to make known unto me the dream which I have seen, and the interpretation thereof?
27Daniel answered in the presence of the king, and said, The secret which the king hath demanded cannot the wise men, the astrologers, the magicians, the soothsayers, shew unto the king;
28But there is a God in heaven that revealeth secrets, and maketh known to the king Nebuchadnezzar what shall be in the latter days. Thy dream, and the visions of thy head upon thy bed, are these;
29As for thee, O king, thy thoughts came into thy mind upon thy bed, what should come to pass hereafter: and he that revealeth secrets maketh known to thee what shall come to pass.
30But as for me, this secret is not revealed to me for any wisdom that I have more than any living, but for their sakes that shall make known the interpretation to the king, and that thou mightest know the thoughts of thy heart.
31Thou, O king, sawest, and behold a great image. This great image, whose brightness was excellent, stood before thee; and the form thereof was terrible.
32This image's head was of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass,
33His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay.
34Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.
35Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.
36This is the dream; and we will tell the interpretation thereof before the king.
37Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory.
38And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold.
39And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth.
40And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.
41And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.
42And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.
43And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.
44And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
45Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.
46Then the king Nebuchadnezzar fell upon his face, and worshipped Daniel, and commanded that they should offer an oblation and sweet odours unto him.
47The king answered unto Daniel, and said, Of a truth it is, that your God is a God of gods, and a Lord of kings, and a revealer of secrets, seeing thou couldest reveal this secret.
48Then the king made Daniel a great man, and gave him many great gifts, and made him ruler over the whole province of Babylon, and chief of the governors over all the wise men of Babylon.
49Then Daniel requested of the king, and he set Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, over the affairs of the province of Babylon: but Daniel sat in the gate of the king.