I a reporbate someone that was saved and now teaches heresies?
Is a false teacher or false prophet someone who is saved and thinks they are teaching the truth about the word and just does not understand how to rightly divided the word of God. And a false prophet someone who was saved and thinks he hears from God but is delusional?
Does anyone have any thoughts on this?
Can a Heretic be saved or is Heretic saved and just misguided?

[Forrest]

Originally Posted by Scott Simons

I a reporbate someone that was saved and now teaches heresies?
Is a false teacher or false prophet someone who is saved and thinks they are teaching the truth about the word and just does not understand how to rightly divided the word of God. And a false prophet someone who was saved and thinks he hears from God but is delusional?
Does anyone have any thoughts on this?
Can a Heretic be saved or is Heretic saved and just misguided?

Scott, it seems to me the Scriptures identify the false prophet, false teacher, reprobate, and heretic as being lost; unsaved. However, on my part, I am not daring enough to say they (on an individual basis) NEVER put faith in Jesus Christ. I don't know. The Lord has not given me clear discernment on your questions.

It goes without saying we should beware of and reject the message of a false teacher or prophet. We should study the Word of Truth so we can identify false teaching. We should reject the lifestyle of the reprobate in Romans 1. The heretic, who teaches and promotes false doctrine should be avoided and rejected. "A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;" (Titus 3:10). I'm not judging whether or not they are saved, I'm judging there message.

Doesn't the Holy Scripture teach that we know them by their fruit? (See Matthew 7:15-20.) Absolutely! But it is very important for us to remember that even those who appear to be saved may not actually be true believers. "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity" (Matthew 7:21-23). They prophesied, cast out devils, and did many wonderful works all in the name of Jesus, yet He never knew them.

May we each purpose to, "...grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen" (2 Peter 3:18).

[Luke]

The Bible definitely portrays false teacher and false prophets as lost. Heretics also are lost. However, a man can believe in what we might call a heresy, and still be saved.

Generally, I think the Bible refers to heretics as those who deny the fundamentals - salvation by faith, virgin birth, deity of Christ, resurrection of the dead etc.

However, a man might believe a "heresy" - like modern versions, sprinkle baptism, gifts of the spirit for today, and still be saved, because he has placed his faith in Christ alone.

It seems as though a reprobate is someone who has willingly and consciously rejected God - their mind is consciously set on disobeying God. Richard Dawkins is a reprobate.

[peopleoftheway]

1 Titus 1:15,16
"Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate."

Paul is writing in these 2 verses about the state of unbelievers

reprobate meaning unapproved, rejected, by implication worthless
Jeremiah 6:30
Reprobate silver shall men call them, because the LORD hath rejected them.
When Paul is writing to Timothy he speaks of the state of "professing" Christians in the last days,
2 Timothy 3:5-8
"5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith."
I believe that verse 6 is describing what we what we see today as Modern day TV evangelists and Charismatics like Benny Hinn and Todd Bently.

In verse 8 we see Paul speaking about the two magicians that withstood Moses, and they certainly weren't saved. So in the first two instances the word reprobate is used in a description of unbelievers

Romans 1:18-28
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

Finally this passage of scripture Clearly speaks of those who have Known the Things of God they have heard the Gospel and rejected it and chose to deny him, and live in hellbound sin. Again speaking of unbelievers.

I Agree with Luke that a heretic in biblical terms is someone who teaches another christ, Denying virgin Birth, Godhead etc these people are clearly not saved, but as Luke said some will sprinkle and tinker with the heresy of tongues etc, that person may have been saved by Grace through faith, and then been led away by the teaching. Although the Charismatic movement is borderline in my opinion, very dangerous ground.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

[chette777]

somethings to keep in mind.

God could give a Christian in willful sin a reprobate mind.

any person who needs to hear God apart from the scriptures is one who doesn't beleive the Bible.

Some Christians are weak in Doctrine and Other types of application, they would be in error and teaching in ignorance like Apollos. If after being corrected they continue to teach the error they would be teaching false teachings wilfully.

Some one who was saved and knew all the correct doctrines and turns form them to heresies and willfully teaches the heresies. may indeed be given a reporbate mind.

yes a Christian could be deceived by men, devils and his own flesh and be saved and teach error.

One teacher I know of, now dead, was a good example of that Jim Jones (I was unsaved at the time of his demise) I judged all christians when I heard of Jonestown suicide/murder. we can not judge a mans salvation only the Lord can. but fruit is judged by believers.

I appreciate all your responses, I would have to conclude that false teachers, heretics, and reprobates, could be saved or could not be saved, in light of the responses with the word of God. But if I was to add my feelings, which could be wrong, I would have to think they are in danger of hell fire.

[Beltfed_0331]

I did a class on the Pentateuch and during this class I found the reference to a prophet named Balaam.
Numbers 22:12 And God said unto Balaam, Thou shalt not go with them; thou shalt not curse the people: for they are blessed.
Even before Israel moved towards Moab, there is a man who knows he can speak to God. He understands the Law required to be able and communicating with Him. I do not know how this happened but I have faith this lesson is a good reference on how a Christian can go bad. One decision we make can change our effectiveness. Balaam talked to God face to face.
18 And Balaam answered and said unto the servants of Balak, If Balak would give me his house full of silver and gold, I cannot go beyond the word of the LORD my God, to do less or more.
In this verse we have the impression that untold riches were not enough for Him to disobey God.
19 Now therefore, I pray you, tarry ye also here this night, that I may know what the LORD will say unto me more.
Here it sounds that he is tempted and wants to ask God one more time.
20 And God came unto Balaam at night, and said unto him, If the men come to call thee, rise up, and go with them; but yet the word which I shall say unto thee, that shalt thou do.
This is where in this story God lets Balaam go into the world with the heathen. Reminding him his obligation and to whom it should be towards. Most might know the story of Balaam and the donkey. Even the prophet of God lets the temptation of money influence his behavior. Balaam already knew he was in a pickle between God and the king of Moab. This frustration is evident with his reaction to everything around him.
29 And Balaam said unto the ass, Because thou hast mocked me: I would there were a sword in mine hand, for now would I kill thee.
Balaam gets right with God and asks to get back in His will.
34 And Balaam said unto the angel of the LORD, I have sinned; for I knew not that thou stoodest in the way against me: now therefore, if it displease thee, I will get me back again.
He is now at a point where it doesn’t matter to him what anyone says or does. He wants to do only that what the Lord tells him to do or say. Balaam was a true prophet of God. He knew that he could talk personally with God whenever he needed to.
23:4 And God met Balaam: and he said unto him, I have prepared seven altars, and I have offered upon every altar a bullock and a ram.
5 And the LORD put a word in Balaam's mouth, and said, Return unto Balak, and thus thou shalt speak.

Balaam stands firm and speaks the word of the Lord to the king.
11 And Balak said unto Balaam, What hast thou done unto me? I took thee to curse mine enemies, and, behold, thou hast blessed them altogether.
12 And he answered and said, Must I not take heed to speak that which the LORD hath put in my mouth?

Balaam continues going back to doing what others want him to do.
13 And Balak said unto him, Come, I pray thee, with me unto another place, from whence thou mayest see them: thou shalt see but the utmost part of them, and shalt not see them all: and curse me them from thence.

The story of Balaam the prophet ends in this chapter. Most all references in scripture refer to him as being bought to hinder Israel. I believe he earned his rewards and for that he became a false prophet. Balaam knew He could not curse Israel. He knew what it would take to defeat Israel. I tend to be influenced towards the side that he told Balak that the way to defeat Israel was with getting them to sin against God and he would punish them.. You read about this in the next chapter. You will never hear one good thing about Balaam in history. Every reference with him in scripture is telling you not to listen to him. He is reduced to nothing more than a soothsayer in Joshua 13:22. The trip Balaam took from speaking with God face to face, being his prophet, to a heretic all revolved around his temptation to do what the king wished with the promise of riches. I believe he took the money, sold his soul at that very moment. He could have repented. He must have hardened his heart towards the will of God to be able and live with his choice. He knew that he was punished. God did not visit him anymore. So many questions come up with this lesson in scripture. I have to remind myself that he was under the law. What grace we have been given.

[pbiwolski]

II Cor. 13:5-7
5. Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
6. But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.
7. Now I pray to God that ye do no evil; not that we should appear approved, but that ye should do that which is honest, though we be as reprobates.

You're either saved or lost. Paul says they better be certain that they are saved and know it for themselves. He wanted them to have their salvation certain between the Lord Jesus Christ and themselves, and not be basing their assurance on Paul or anyone else. If Paul himself turned back to ungodliness (very possible for anyone of us), they had still better know that they themselves are saved. Otherwise they're called a reprobate.

Originally Posted by pbiwolski

II Cor. 13:5-7
5. Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
6. But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.
7. Now I pray to God that ye do no evil; not that we should appear approved, but that ye should do that which is honest, though we be as reprobates.

You're either saved or lost. Paul says they better be certain that they are saved and know it for themselves. He wanted them to have their salvation certain between the Lord Jesus Christ and themselves, and not be basing their assurance on Paul or anyone else. If Paul himself turned back to ungodliness (very possible for anyone of us), they had still better know that they themselves are saved. Otherwise they're called a reprobate.

But you are not saying that turning back to ungodliness is one losing there salvation are you? But they thought they where saved because they thought they believe, but didn't really believe, so they where never saved to begin with, right?

Originally Posted by pbiwolski

II Cor. 13:5-7
[COLOR=green] I tend to be influenced towards the side that he told Balak that the way to defeat Israel was with getting them to sin against God and he would punish them.. You read about this in the next chapter.

I believe he got the king to send his daughter to marry there men and men to marry there daughter, which is how he trouble Israel.

However to think about Balaam being saved, because he talked to God, some would say that the church did not exist so no one was saved. So if he was saved, then he was saved then no matter what he is saved and just lost some rewards no matter what, but I don’t know why he was mentioned in Jude if he was saved, so he must have not been saved, even if he talked to God and God talked to him, right?