Do we have the infallible words of God today or not? Without exception, I have not found one modern version promoter who believes that any single Bible out there is the complete, inerrant word of God.

That is right. Because, as your definition of "trow" demonstrates, that many words in the KJV are now "archaic" and "obsolete." God's intentions have always been to preserve His word in the common language of His people.

[Will Kinney]

Originally Posted by freesundayschoollessons

That is right. Because, as your definition of "trow" demonstrates, that many words in the KJV are now "archaic" and "obsolete." God's intentions have always been to preserve His word in the common language of His people.

Hi fssl. I'm not quite sure what your point is. I find it of interest that you are somehow privy (oops, there's another one of those 'archaic' words) to what God's intentions have always been. From what I have seen so far of some of your posts, it seems you have an extremely wide, loose, and unique way of defining "God's words".

Can you tell me where I can get a copy of what you think God's words are so I can compare it to my King James Bible to see where they differ?

To give you some 'details' to consider, could you tell us which of the following readings are the true words of God 'in the common language of the people'?


Among these “details” are whether Jeremiah 27:1 reads Jehoiakim (Hebrew texts, RV,ASV, NKJV, KJB) or Zedekiah (NIV, NASB); whether 2 Samuel 21:8 reads Michal (Hebrew texts, KJB,NKJV, RV,ASV) or Merab (NIV,NASB), or 70 (NASB, NKJV, RV, ASV,KJB) being sent out by the Lord Jesus in Luke 10:1 or 72 (NIV), or the 7th day in Judges 14:15 (KJB, NKJV, RV, ASV) or the 4th day (NASB, NIV), or God smiting 50,070 men in 1 Samuel 6:19 (KJB, RV,ASV,NASB) or 70 men slain (NIV, RSV), or there being 30,000 chariots in 1 Samuel 13:5 (KJB, NKJV, RV, ASV, NASB, ESV) or only 3000 (NIV, & Holman), or 1 Samuel 13:1 reading - ONE/TWO years (NKJV, KJB, Geneva,Judaica Press Tanach), or 40/32 (NASB 1972-77) or 30/42 (NASB 1995, NIV), or _____years and.______and two years (RSV, ESV); or the fine linen being the “righteousness” of saints or the fine linen being the “righteous acts” of the saints in Revelation 19:8, or where 2 Chronicles 36:9 reads that Jehoiachin was 8 years old when he began to reign (Hebrew texts, NASB, NKJV, RV,ASV,KJB, ESV) or he was 18 years old (NIV), or that when God raised the Lord Jesus from the dead it is stated in Acts 13:33 “this day have I begotten thee” (KJB, NASB, NKJV,RV, ESV) or “today I have become your Father” (NIV).

Any idea which of these various textual readings are part of the true words of God? Please let us know. thanks,

Will K

Can you tell me where I can get a copy of what you think God's words are so I can compare it to my King James Bible to see where they differ?

It looks like you already have them. I see you have done your homework. Now, just research each and find out why each is the way it is...

Now, why should we keep the words "I trow not" when the common man as no idea what it means? Or, do you think God intended the Bible to be kept a secret for those who have a college level of Shakespearean English?

[Will Kinney]

Originally Posted by freesundayschoollessons

It looks like you already have them. I see you have done your homework. Now, just research each and find out why each is the way it is...

Now, why should we keep the words "I trow not" when the common man as no idea what it means? Or, do you think God intended the Bible to be kept a secret for those who have a college level of Shakespearean English?

Hi fssl, I'm shocked....shocked....that you simply avoided my direct questions to you with this bland and meaningless mumbo jumbo.

Which of these readings is "the original"? They can't all be what God inspired, can they?

Here they are again, in case you missed them.

Among these “details” are whether Jeremiah 27:1 reads Jehoiakim (Hebrew texts, RV,ASV, NKJV, KJB) or Zedekiah (NIV, NASB); whether 2 Samuel 21:8 reads Michal (Hebrew texts, KJB,NKJV, RV,ASV) or Merab (NIV,NASB), or 70 (NASB, NKJV, RV, ASV,KJB) being sent out by the Lord Jesus in Luke 10:1 or 72 (NIV), or the 7th day in Judges 14:15 (KJB, NKJV, RV, ASV) or the 4th day (NASB, NIV), or God smiting 50,070 men in 1 Samuel 6:19 (KJB, RV,ASV,NASB) or 70 men slain (NIV, RSV), or there being 30,000 chariots in 1 Samuel 13:5 (KJB, NKJV, RV, ASV, NASB, ESV) or only 3000 (NIV, & Holman), or 1 Samuel 13:1 reading - ONE/TWO years (NKJV, KJB, Geneva,Judaica Press Tanach), or 40/32 (NASB 1972-77) or 30/42 (NASB 1995, NIV), or _____years and.______and two years (RSV, ESV); or the fine linen being the “righteousness” of saints or the fine linen being the “righteous acts” of the saints in Revelation 19:8, or where 2 Chronicles 36:9 reads that Jehoiachin was 8 years old when he began to reign (Hebrew texts, NASB, NKJV, RV,ASV,KJB, ESV) or he was 18 years old (NIV), or that when God raised the Lord Jesus from the dead it is stated in Acts 13:33 “this day have I begotten thee” (KJB, NASB, NKJV,RV, ESV) or “today I have become your Father” (NIV).

Any idea which of these various textual readings are part of the true words of God? Please let us know.

As for your comment: "Now, why should we keep the words "I trow not" when the common man as no idea what it means?", are you aware of the simple fact that your modern NIV contains well over a hundred words that most high school graduates would have no idea what they mean?

Your argument is silly. Ever try learning something new or a new word, duh?

There is an book called, “Archaic Words and the Authorized Version”, by Laurence M. Vance. In it Mr. Vance shows how most of the so-called archaic words in the KJB are not archaic at all but are found in modern magazines, newspapers, and dictionaries. There are only about 200 words usually picked out by critics of the KJB, yet of the approximately 800,000 words in the Bible this is only .004 % of the total.

He also shows many examples of words in the modern versions which most people would have to look up in a dictionary. Here are some of those words found in the "easy to read" NIV.

Try giving this vocabulary test to the average NIV reader and see if they get a passing score.

abashed, abominable, abutted, acclaim, adder, adhere, admonishing, advocate, alcove, algum, allocate, allots, ally, aloes, appease, ardent, armlets, arrayed, astir, atonement, awl, banishment, battlements, behemoth, belial, bereaves, betrothed, bier, blighted, booty, brayed, breaching, breakers, buffeted, burnished, calamus, capital (not a city), carnelian, carrion, centurions, chasm, chronic, chrysolite, cistern, citadel, citron, clefts, cohorts, colonnades, complacency, coney, concession, congealed, conjure, contrite, convocations, crest, cors, curds, dandled, dappled, debauchery, decimated, deluged, denarii, depose, derides, despoil, dire,dispossess, disrepute, dissipation, distill, dissuade, divination, dragnet, dropsy, duplicity, earthenware, ebony, emasculate, emission, encroach, enmity, enthralled, entreaty, ephod, epicurean, ewe, excrement, exodus, factions, felled, festal, fettered, figurehead, filigree, flagstaff, fomenting, forded, fowler, gadfly, galled, gird, gauntness, gecko, gloating, goiim, harrowing, haunt, hearld, henna, homers, hoopoe, ignoble, impaled, implore, incur, indignant, insatiable, insolence, intact, invoked, jambs, joists, jowls, lairs, lamentation, leviathan, libations, loins, magi, manifold, maritime, mattocks, maxims, mina, misdemeanor, mother-of-pearl, mustering, myrtles, naive, naught, Negev, Nephilim, nettles, nocturnal, nomad, notorious, Nubians, oblivion, obsolete, odious, offal, omer, oracles, overweening, parapet, parchments, pavilion, peals (noun, not the verb), perjurers, perpetuate, pestilence, pinions, phylacteries, plumage, pomp, porphyry, portent, potsherd, proconsul, propriety, poultice, Praetorium, pretext, profligate, promiscuity, provincial, providence, qualm, quarries, quivers (noun, not verb), ramparts, ransacked, ratified, ravish, rabble, rawboned, relish (not for hotdogs), recoils, recount, refrain, relent, rend, reposes, reprimanded, reputed, retinue, retorted, retribution, rifts, roebucks, rue, sachet, satraps, sated, shipwrights, siegeworks, sinews, sistrums, sledges, smelted, somber, soothsayer, sovereignty, spelt, stadia, stench, stipulation, sullen, tamarisk, tanner, temperate, tether, tetrarch, terebinth, thresher, throes, thronged, tiaras, tinder, tracts, transcends, tresses, turbulent, tyrannical, unscathed, unrelenting, usury, vassal, vaunts, vehemently, verdant, vexed, wadi, wanton, warranted, wield, winnowing and wrenched.

It is funny that I can put together the phrase from the KJB which says; "The very sad green giant was hungry” and in the NIV it would be: “The overweening dejected verdant Nephilim was famished."

Will K

I refuse to drink from a fountain that is fed by a firehose.

Actually, I see alot of vocabulary that is used in USAToday.com. Every word on the first two lines are there.

[Steven Avery]

Luke 17:9
Doth he thank that servant because he did the things
that were commanded him? I trow not.

Personally, I really appreciate, like and use the phrase 'trow not' in proper usage. Interestingly those who use the phrase seem to sense the proper usage even when they haven't thought it through in a study.

In our English 'trow not' has a specific meaning, and is quite distinct and different than to 'think not' although there may be places where either can be used. 'Trow not' is truly excellent and solid and economic and communicative vocabulary, many of us learn our language in more fullness through the King James Bible.

You can see this from the very differing etymologies.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?l=t&p=21
trow
O.E. treowian "to trust, believe," from treow "faith, belief," from P.Gmc. *truwian (see true). Cognate with Ger. trauen.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?...earchmode=none
think
O.E. þencan "conceive in the mind, think, consider, intend" (past tense þohte, p.p. geþoht), probably originally "cause to appear to oneself," from P.Gmc. (continues)

Notice that "trow not" has a sense of belief and faith and trust, of truth. The words will be spoken with conviction, and give the sense of surety of mind and conviction.

While to "think not" can be simply mental knowledge, intellectual assent, ironic, supposition, and many other types of thinking.

================================================

Did the Cavaliers win a basketball game yesterday ?

I think not.

Will this new analysis of the Bible MSS and languages undermine my conviction
that the King James Bible is the pure and perfect word of God ?

I trow not.

================================================== ======

Shalom,
Steven

PS.
Notice how the natural usage will be first-person, the declaration of faith and truth.
The Bible does use 'think not' in 2nd-person usages.