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  #31  
Old 06-24-2009, 11:18 PM
KingSolomon1611 KingSolomon1611 is offline
 
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Where at in Alabama are you from?
I saw in your profile that you were from the big AL and got excited. I live south of Huntsville/Huntsvegas
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  #32  
Old 06-25-2009, 05:56 AM
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Where at in Alabama are you from?
Deep Alabama....Mobile, the Azalea City and you can't believe how hot this past week has been.
  #33  
Old 06-25-2009, 08:48 AM
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Deep Alabama....Mobile, the Azalea City and you can't believe how hot this past week has been.
If you're deep then I'm shallow. I'm in Decatur.
  #34  
Old 06-25-2009, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by CKG
After Israel (Northern Kingdom) and Judah (Southern Kingdom) split.
2 Chronicles 11

16. And after them out of all the tribes of Israel such as set their hearts to seek the LORD God of Israel came to Jerusalem, to sacrifice unto the LORD God of their fathers.

Whirlwind - Yes, some of the other tribes that wished to worship at the temple did so. They came to "sacrifice" but it didn't say to remain. Nor did it say all of, or many of, the house of Israel "came to Jerusalem." Did some of the other tribes stay and live in Jerusalem. I'm sure they did but not the whole, or majority of, the "house of Israel."
CKG - 2 Chronicles 11:16 Comments - It doesn’t matter if every single member of Israel came. It says “out of all the tribes of Israel came”. It didn’t say they remained, but it didn’t say they returned. The point is even after the kingdoms divided (and there was usually contention between the two kingdoms) there were still, out of all the tribes of Israel, those who came to Jerusalem to worship.
Originally Posted by CKG
After Israel was taken into captivity

2 Chronicles 31
1. Now when all this was finished, all Israel that were present went out to the cities of Judah, and brake the images in pieces, and cut down the groves, and threw down the high places and the altars out of all Judah and Benjamin, in Ephraim also and Manasseh, until they had utterly destroyed them all. Then all the children of Israel returned, every man to his possession, into their own cities.


6. And concerning the children of Israel and Judah, that dwelt in the cities of Judah, they also brought in the tithe of oxen and sheep, and the tithe of holy things which were consecrated unto the LORD their God, and laid them by heaps.

Whirlwind - I believe they are those that came to worship there.
CKG - 2 Chronicles 31:6 Comments - “And concerning the children of Israel and Judah, that dwelt in the cities of Judah,”

2 Chronicles 30:6 tells us “So the posts went with the letters from the king and his princes throughout all Israel and Judah, and according to the commandment of the king, saying, Ye children of Israel, turn again unto the LORD God of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, and he will return to the remnant of you, that are escaped out of the hand of the kings of Assyria.”

Even though the northern kingdom had been taken into captivity by Assyria there were those that had escaped. Why would they want to return to the northern kingdom which was under Assyrian rule?

Originally Posted by CKG
2 Chronicles 34:9. And when they came to Hilkiah the high priest, they delivered the money that was brought into the house of God, which the Levites that kept the doors had gathered of the hand of Manasseh and Ephraim, and of all the remnant of Israel, and of all Judah and Benjamin; and they returned to Jerusalem.

CKG - 2 Chronicles 34:9 Comments – After the Assyrian captivity of the northern kingdom, there was a remnant of Israel in Jerusalem.
James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

Whirlwind - Yes...they were scattered abroad. James writes to them and us. Christ was sent to them and He sent His disciples to them and us


That makes absolutely no sense (not uncommon for many of your statements). James writes to the twelve tribes. As far as James is concerned there aren't 10 lost tribes and 2 found; there are 12 tribes which have been scattered.
  #35  
Old 06-25-2009, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by CKG
After Israel (Northern Kingdom) and Judah (Southern Kingdom) split.
2 Chronicles 11

16. And after them out of all the tribes of Israel such as set their hearts to seek the LORD God of Israel came to Jerusalem, to sacrifice unto the LORD God of their fathers.

Whirlwind - Yes, some of the other tribes that wished to worship at the temple did so. They came to "sacrifice" but it didn't say to remain. Nor did it say all of, or many of, the house of Israel "came to Jerusalem." Did some of the other tribes stay and live in Jerusalem. I'm sure they did but not the whole, or majority of, the "house of Israel."
CKG - 2 Chronicles 11:16 Comments - It doesn’t matter if every single member of Israel came. It says “out of all the tribes of Israel came”. It didn’t say they remained, but it didn’t say they returned. The point is even after the kingdoms divided (and there was usually contention between the two kingdoms) there were still, out of all the tribes of Israel, those who came to Jerusalem to worship.
Originally Posted by CKG
After Israel was taken into captivity

2 Chronicles 31
1. Now when all this was finished, all Israel that were present went out to the cities of Judah, and brake the images in pieces, and cut down the groves, and threw down the high places and the altars out of all Judah and Benjamin, in Ephraim also and Manasseh, until they had utterly destroyed them all. Then all the children of Israel returned, every man to his possession, into their own cities.


6. And concerning the children of Israel and Judah, that dwelt in the cities of Judah, they also brought in the tithe of oxen and sheep, and the tithe of holy things which were consecrated unto the LORD their God, and laid them by heaps.

Whirlwind - I believe they are those that came to worship there.
CKG - 2 Chronicles 31:6 Comments - “And concerning the children of Israel and Judah, that dwelt in the cities of Judah,”

2 Chronicles 30:6 tells us “So the posts went with the letters from the king and his princes throughout all Israel and Judah, and according to the commandment of the king, saying, Ye children of Israel, turn again unto the LORD God of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, and he will return to the remnant of you, that are escaped out of the hand of the kings of Assyria.”

Even though the northern kingdom had been taken into captivity by Assyria there were those that had escaped. Why would they want to return to the northern kingdom which was under Assyrian rule?

Originally Posted by CKG
2 Chronicles 34:9. And when they came to Hilkiah the high priest, they delivered the money that was brought into the house of God, which the Levites that kept the doors had gathered of the hand of Manasseh and Ephraim, and of all the remnant of Israel, and of all Judah and Benjamin; and they returned to Jerusalem.

CKG - 2 Chronicles 34:9 Comments – After the Assyrian captivity of the northern kingdom, there was a remnant of Israel in Jerusalem.
James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

Whirlwind - Yes...they were scattered abroad. James writes to them and us. Christ was sent to them and He sent His disciples to them and us


That makes absolutely no sense (not uncommon for many of your statements). James writes to the twelve tribes. As far as James is concerned there aren't 10 lost tribes and 2 found; there are 12 tribes which have been scattered.

The writings of James were for all Israel. It is he that tells us they were scattered...not me. From the above I assume you believe the ten tribes never left, are not the lost sheep, were never scattered, or are all living in Jerusalem?

Ezekiel 37:16-17 "Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions: And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.
Has that happened yet?
37:21 And say unto them, 'Thus saith the Lord GOD; 'Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land: And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:

37:24 And David My servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in My judgments, and observe My statutes, and do them.
  #36  
Old 06-25-2009, 10:19 PM
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Jassy I don't hold a copyright on anything Sister, I didn't write it for you not to use in any way you wish so feel free. I write what I do here for anyone who gets edification from it

Sister, I understand your issue about witnessing, and it's human, and based on what you came from, understandable. If you have a Bible program with word search or a concordance for a regular Bible, look up the words "bold" and "boldly" in Acts and Paul's letters. Being bold in witnessing for Christ is not like herding cattle, a cop breaking down a door, it's done out of charity for the person you witness to. We are sealed by the Holy Spirit, they aren't, but it's done out of humility, He died for them the same as us. We don't become bulletproof when we are saved, we aren't better than anyone. That's why in the face of abuse to be longsuffering with them, same as you have to be sometimes in internet Bible forums.

Jassy, another unpleasant truth is this: The greatest opposition you will receive is not from sinners, it'll be from Christians. If you don't have the Denominational Background Check, a "profession of faith and obedience" that other Christians can see, well, you are a "false teacher slipped in unawares." This is why I say you can't pull any punches when witnessing as to life after Salvation. See, the Cadillac Crowd run from this verse:

2Ti 2:3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.

Do you know anything easy about being a soldier? I was 12, a child more or less, and the day after I was saved my grandmother died the next day 10 minutes before I got home from school, I walked up to the house and there was a hearse in the driveway. I have a cousin I never met, she was 21, she got saved through Pat Robertson's TV show, one of the few times they actually preached the gospel. Two weeks later she didn't win the lottery, her car stalled on the train tracks, the driver was drunk and went right through her car like a knife through whipped cream and killed her. Sister, there was't hardley anything left to bury. Does "Christianity" make your life "better"?

No, it makes it possible.

This is our "commission" for today:

II Cor. 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God.

Ro 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

1Co 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

I'll look up those threads we wrote to Jassy, you do with what I wrote anything you want to. That's why I wrote them, to be used and studied and a help.

Grace and peace Sister

Tony
Brother Tony, indeed we are promised trials and testing, persecution, and what I consider our own little version of Paul's "thorn in the flesh." The life of a Christian is not for the faint-hearted. I could tell some stories... I just become a bit wary and reluctant to share them here on a public forum. I've had all manner of reactions, most of which I've disagreed with, regarding the subject of "healing." There are many Christians, I have found, that believe that if a Christian is not HEALED and in perfect health, that their faith is WEAK and lacking. I would like to be able to exchange lives with one of those "perfect life" Christians - and see how they'd manage, if God didn't seem to be heaping blessings upon them! I thank God for the fiery trials - for I have learned much in them and they are of great value. I wouldn't change anything - God always knows best for me. He uses everything for GOOD in a believer. Perhaps we cannot always see the "big picture" - but we can be certain of the Lord's promises.

I sure wish that you could embark upon an email "debate" with this person. I am now at a loss. For every email that I've sent to him, he has had rebuttals and I can't keep up with it. I keep trying to bring it back to the MAIN POINT that I had about dispensations and not mixing LAW with GRACE - but he keeps pointedly asking me to ANSWER his questions. And they are always going back to the LAW and keeping the LAW and him saying that PAUL taught the keeping of the Law and Jesus kept it while on earth.

I can share his email address with you - because, at this point, I give-up. I am simply not equipped to debate with him. YOU ARE. I fully believe that God has equipped you with the knowledge and experience for this sort of thing. I am still gathering - and not at the point of debating beyond the fact of keeping the dispensations clear and not mixing Law with Grace.

I will email you off the forum and give you his email address. I hope that will be OK. I have told him that I will find someone more knowledgable than I am to help him understand clearly.

Thank you for your help brother. I am simply not prepared to debate with him.

Jassy
  #37  
Old 06-26-2009, 12:52 AM
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Brother Tony, indeed we are promised trials and testing, persecution, and what I consider our own little version of Paul's "thorn in the flesh." The life of a Christian is not for the faint-hearted. I could tell some stories... I just become a bit wary and reluctant to share them here on a public forum. I've had all manner of reactions, most of which I've disagreed with, regarding the subject of "healing." There are many Christians, I have found, that believe that if a Christian is not HEALED and in perfect health, that their faith is WEAK and lacking. I would like to be able to exchange lives with one of those "perfect life" Christians - and see how they'd manage, if God didn't seem to be heaping blessings upon them! I thank God for the fiery trials - for I have learned much in them and they are of great value. I wouldn't change anything - God always knows best for me. He uses everything for GOOD in a believer. Perhaps we cannot always see the "big picture" - but we can be certain of the Lord's promises.

I sure wish that you could embark upon an email "debate" with this person. I am now at a loss. For every email that I've sent to him, he has had rebuttals and I can't keep up with it. I keep trying to bring it back to the MAIN POINT that I had about dispensations and not mixing LAW with GRACE - but he keeps pointedly asking me to ANSWER his questions. And they are always going back to the LAW and keeping the LAW and him saying that PAUL taught the keeping of the Law and Jesus kept it while on earth.

I can share his email address with you - because, at this point, I give-up. I am simply not equipped to debate with him. YOU ARE. I fully believe that God has equipped you with the knowledge and experience for this sort of thing. I am still gathering - and not at the point of debating beyond the fact of keeping the dispensations clear and not mixing Law with Grace.

I will email you off the forum and give you his email address. I hope that will be OK. I have told him that I will find someone more knowledgable than I am to help him understand clearly.

Thank you for your help brother. I am simply not prepared to debate with him.

Jassy
You don't have to do anything you don't want to. This is an SDA geek out to either recruit you or use you for a whet rock, turn him over to me and let's see how fast he runs from me. I give him a week. Nothing for a seared conscience like a good Two Edged skinning knife. Contact me anytime Jassy, you are always welcome.

Let's consider this:

II Cor. 11:23 Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool) I am more; in labours more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft.
24 Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one.
25 Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep;
26 In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren;
27 In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness.
28 Beside those things that are without, that which cometh upon me daily, the care of all the churches.

Do you know what Paul called all this?

2Co 4:17 For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory;

I don't demean or marginalize what you yourself have been through, what we all have in just day to day life apart from our Christian service, but the Cadillac Crowd is a group I pity because they are not hardened to being soldiers for Christ, and why we have so many of them "losing their salvation" and "backsliding", and "rededicating" themselves. We used to have the Name it-Claim It crowd come out and get in a circle and growl and moan like a gang of Stonehenge druids and then leave, and not pass one tract out.My wife was hit with a rock on the street ministry, it just made her more zealous. We were spit on, had beer thrown on us, I was hit with a Ziploc bag of urine. I went into one of the bars, cleaned up, I had clean clothes in the trunk of my car, I expected to be hit with something.

Paul calls this light affliction.

Ro 8:18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

Arthur Blessit was spit on, rained on , snowed on, blistered by the sun, put up against a firing squadfor preaching the cross, he walked 36,000 miles. Yeah, Arthur was on Paul and Jan Crouch's TV show and is a Baptist, I don't hold either against him. If you are offered a door of opportunity to inspire people, as he did me, I say go for it.

I got a little brother buried somewhere in Kentucky. Mom's first husband beat her and beat the baby to death, she carried a brain dead baby inside her for two months. When it was born it's head was flat like a Frisbee from being beaten, it coughed once and its heart stopped. Mom had like dents and lumps in her back from where she was beaten. I go to bed every night I can still feel those lumps in her back.

Paul calls this light affliction.

We should not do like many metally ill people do and have a martyr complex and go looking for trouble, it will find us. And we should remember that our apostle has promised us, who was told by Jesus Christ to tell us, it is, no matter what we endure, light affliction. He took our place on Calvary so it would not be eternal affliction.

Grace and peace sister, I look forward to hearing from you.

Tony

Last edited by tonybones2112; 06-26-2009 at 12:55 AM. Reason: punctuation
  #38  
Old 06-27-2009, 05:27 PM
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Brother Tony,

Thank you for saying that I don't have to do anything I don't want to. I've sometimes felt like it's my "Christian duty" to defend the faith. However, when I fail at doing that... or don't feel I am doing it as well as another more well-equipped Christian would be able to do, then I think it's time for me to close the debate and agree to disagree. This person has ruffled my feathers quite a LOT and I am feeling plagued at this point. I hope that you are able to help him to see clearly. Does a Christian who is wrongly-led come to a "point of no return," where they blindly reject all efforts at showing the truth, preferring to be RIGHT than filled with the truth?

At times, I have had to withdraw myself from certain people, since I felt that it was not at all edifying to have constant conflicts with them. Agreeing to disagree seems much more peaceful. It is especially painful when I USED to have the same beliefs that they did. When the truth appeared to me, and I embraced it, I was scorned, admonished, challenged, and criticized by those former "friends." Again they want to be RIGHT. For them, it seems to be 'Do as I do, or NOTHING!' At that point, I'd honestly rather have nothing... because I still and always have the LORD.

You didn't demean or marginalize in any way what I myself have gone through. Besides that, you and others have no way of knowing, if I don't reveal that information about myself. Maybe in the near future, I will post my "testimony" in the Chitchat section here. I'm not sure where that would belong. I guess that would be the most appropriate category for it.

Arthur Blessit's sacrifices, steadfastness, and pure bravery in Christ are amazing! That brother has done much for modern-day Christianity. I don't judge a person by their denominational status - it's their personal relationship with the Lord that is at issue. It's literally between them and the Lord. Who am I to judge what their standing is in the Lord? Certainly the company we keep is something that others judge us by, unfortunately. But how many of us have befriended an angry, poor, smelly bum, in order to tell them about the Lord Jesus Christ and what He has done in our life and can do in theirs? We definitely don't have any right to judge, based upon appearances. "there, but or the grace of God, go I."

The Lord has done so many dramatic things in my life that I could not but SEE His hand in it. And even though the atheist looks at my life and may see someone who needs a crutch to lean on, because of a life that they think cannot be much fun to live... it makes me sad that they assume that, without truly knowing me. So, when someone asks me for a reason for the JOY that is in me - I don't waste a moment in confidently telling them that, without faith in the Lord, I am NOTHING, and I live because He lives IN me. They will say, "How can you be so happy after all that you have been through?" or "What's your secret?" The truth is that they are IMAGINING themselves as me and thinking, 'Oh my! if I were her, I'd be so depressed!' And yet, there I am beaming with JOY. And they need to know it is not short-lived happiness... it is JOY springing from within.

Yes, I sure don't go looking for trouble... but Satan sends his minions to plague me, as he does all true Christians. I am NOT afraid!!! I have the POWER OF GOD!! I may not look like much - all 3'9 and 74 lbs of me - but the Lord has made me into a spiritual dynamo!

Brother Tony, please keep me informed. I would really appreciate knowing what happens in the debate and whether or not he folds. I have him in my prayers. And I have you in my prayers as well.

Jassy
  #39  
Old 07-03-2009, 04:27 AM
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Brother Tony,

Thank you for saying that I don't have to do anything I don't want to. I've sometimes felt like it's my "Christian duty" to defend the faith. However, when I fail at doing that... or don't feel I am doing it as well as another more well-equipped Christian would be able to do, then I think it's time for me to close the debate and agree to disagree. This person has ruffled my feathers quite a LOT and I am feeling plagued at this point. I hope that you are able to help him to see clearly. Does a Christian who is wrongly-led come to a "point of no return," where they blindly reject all efforts at showing the truth, preferring to be RIGHT than filled with the truth?

At times, I have had to withdraw myself from certain people, since I felt that it was not at all edifying to have constant conflicts with them. Agreeing to disagree seems much more peaceful. It is especially painful when I USED to have the same beliefs that they did. When the truth appeared to me, and I embraced it, I was scorned, admonished, challenged, and criticized by those former "friends." Again they want to be RIGHT. For them, it seems to be 'Do as I do, or NOTHING!' At that point, I'd honestly rather have nothing... because I still and always have the LORD.

You didn't demean or marginalize in any way what I myself have gone through. Besides that, you and others have no way of knowing, if I don't reveal that information about myself. Maybe in the near future, I will post my "testimony" in the Chitchat section here. I'm not sure where that would belong. I guess that would be the most appropriate category for it.

Arthur Blessit's sacrifices, steadfastness, and pure bravery in Christ are amazing! That brother has done much for modern-day Christianity. I don't judge a person by their denominational status - it's their personal relationship with the Lord that is at issue. It's literally between them and the Lord. Who am I to judge what their standing is in the Lord? Certainly the company we keep is something that others judge us by, unfortunately. But how many of us have befriended an angry, poor, smelly bum, in order to tell them about the Lord Jesus Christ and what He has done in our life and can do in theirs? We definitely don't have any right to judge, based upon appearances. "there, but or the grace of God, go I."

The Lord has done so many dramatic things in my life that I could not but SEE His hand in it. And even though the atheist looks at my life and may see someone who needs a crutch to lean on, because of a life that they think cannot be much fun to live... it makes me sad that they assume that, without truly knowing me. So, when someone asks me for a reason for the JOY that is in me - I don't waste a moment in confidently telling them that, without faith in the Lord, I am NOTHING, and I live because He lives IN me. They will say, "How can you be so happy after all that you have been through?" or "What's your secret?" The truth is that they are IMAGINING themselves as me and thinking, 'Oh my! if I were her, I'd be so depressed!' And yet, there I am beaming with JOY. And they need to know it is not short-lived happiness... it is JOY springing from within.

Yes, I sure don't go looking for trouble... but Satan sends his minions to plague me, as he does all true Christians. I am NOT afraid!!! I have the POWER OF GOD!! I may not look like much - all 3'9 and 74 lbs of me - but the Lord has made me into a spiritual dynamo!

Brother Tony, please keep me informed. I would really appreciate knowing what happens in the debate and whether or not he folds. I have him in my prayers. And I have you in my prayers as well.

Jassy
Jassy, that's one powerful testimony. It's something we can all be edified about. I have computer problems, a Christian brother is solving that for me today, I hope to be back over the holiday and will answer your email ASAP.

We'll get our LAwkeeper friend back on course soon.

Grace and peace to you my sister in Christ

Tony
 

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