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Old 05-18-2009, 12:15 PM
ChaplainPaul ChaplainPaul is offline
 
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Originally Posted by peopleoftheway View Post
George stated something similar Brother and I would sincerely hope this isnt a trick by buzzoff to bring about a conversation on "repentance".
That would just be utterly devious and unscriptural
Sorry I didn't catch that earlier. I edited that out because I felt I was reading too much into what he said. It's true, that was my first reaction. I hope that's not what he is doing, though. Unfortunately, recent posts by others have made me a bit jaded. Perhaps Buzz can appreciate that!
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  #12  
Old 05-18-2009, 02:22 PM
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If I wanted a conversation on repentance I would have posted again in the thread I started on Lordship Salvation. I simply want the truth. Most of you guys seem to know you have it. I, on the other hand hear things like Way of the Master and McArthur, and my wife telling me I need to go to a catholic church, and I get unsure. I am no minister. I think I have above average intelligence. I also over-analyze things. I just want to be saved. I want to know I have the truth, as so many of you here seem to.
  #13  
Old 05-18-2009, 02:53 PM
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Please Read the following My Friend, please read without "way of the master", Macarthur, repentance as described by these men and indeed anything you may be over anylzing, read over this prayerfully and focus on one thing
YOUR position with God, not anyone elses or indeed what anyone else says your position with God is.

God's Word For Anxious Souls - by Murray McCandless

How often we have heard anxious souls declare in their frustration, “ I believe, but I am not saved!” They hear the same message of the gospel as others, read the same Bible verses, and yet they are described in the sad words of Jeremiah 8:20 “not saved”. We must remember that salvation is not merely the result of human understanding. Salvation is the result of revealed truth from God’s Word to the anxious soul, accepted by faith. I cannot over emphasize the value of the personal, careful reading of the scriptures: “What saith the scripture?” (Galatians 4:30).

It will be helpful to open your Bible and read the passage, John 4:46-54, concerning the nobleman’s son. This is one of the clearest passages in the gospels to prove conclusively that one must accept His Word and that alone. “He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day” (John 12:48). “Wherefore neither thought I myself worthy to come unto thee: but say in a word, and my servant shall be healed” (Luke 7:7). “Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever” (1 Peter 1:23).

The nobleman had made his way to the Savior with burdened heart concerning his dying son. When he met the Savior, he was greeted with these words: “Except ye see signs and wonders ye will not believe.” At this puzzling statement, the man had one of two options: forget what he heard and go home and bury his son; or he could do as he did, accept the same and in faith and humility exclaim, “Sir, come down ere my child die” (vs 49). The Saviour immediately said, “Go thy way, thy son liveth.” Please note the period after the word “liveth”; nothing more was needed to heal the boy. I would like to present two questions: (1) What if the man didn’t believe the word? Would his son have lived? (2) What if the man didn’t go his way? Would his son have lived?

Now here is where we must be careful. The answer to both questions is an emphatic, yes. For this one reason: Jesus said it. He did not say, “Thy son liveth, if you believe.” He did not say, “Thy son liveth, if you go your way.” His believing had nothing to do with it. Believing didn’t make the boy better; the Savior did. So often we want to put something in the scripture that is not there, or take something away that is there.

Suppose we were to encounter this man joyfully making his way home. We stop him and ask him why he is so happy. Would he not with joy tell us his son is living? If we were to ask him how he knows that, would his reply not be “because Jesus said it”? Suppose later the same day we meet the same man, and now he is very disturbed; joy is gone, no peace. Is his boy better, is he living? Most certainly; his feelings have nothing to do with the fever being rebuked in the boy by the Son of God.

Now an interesting thing happens. He meets his servants. Normally they were not to leave the property of the master. Possibly as the mother cradled her once dying boy in her arms she saw him sitting up and noticed the fever was gone. So she would send the servants to get the master in the belief that the Savior isn’t needed. The boy is better. She doesn’t realize that the Savior had spoken the word and the boy would live for this reason. To prove how little this man’s faith was, he asks the servants when he began to get better (vs 52). Did he think it was something gradual? Salvation is not gradual; it is the miracle of a moment, because it is a birth (John 3:3). How come he doesn’t announce to the servants upon meeting them that he knows the boy is living? Maybe he wasn’t sure. Did that change anything? Not a thing. He now knows that it was the same hour in which Jesus said unto him, “Thy son liveth”, and himself believed and his whole house. Again let me remind you, it was not “thy son liveth if you believe”, or “thy son liveth if you go your way”. It is true, he believed, and it is true he went his way, but it had nothing to do with the boy living or dying. IT WAS ALL IN WHAT JESUS SAID.

The blind man in John 9:35 is asked, “Dost thou believe on the Son of God?” Notice, the man does not confess to more faith than he possesses, and replies, “Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on him?” Listen to the delightful and assuring reply of the Saviour: “Thou hast both seen him, and it is he that talketh with thee” (John 9:37-38). And he said, “Lord, I believe,” and he worshipped Him. He had to take His Word for it that He was Jesus, the Son of God.

So the anxious sinner asks, “Is my believing needed then?” Yes, it is, and for this reason. The work of Christ on the cross is complete and it is enough to save all. But God gives the free gift of eternal life to those who accept it as repentant sinners. So they believe God’s Word.

Sometimes we treat the word “believe” as if it were a poor choice of word for God to use, and it has stumbled so many people. What stumbles them is not so much the word as their unbelief and their futile efforts to make belief, rather than Christ, their savior.

There are, of course, other words used for the same experience, but in the end we place our trust in the Savior or we fail to do so. That is exactly what His Word tells us. We reject it at our peril.

“He that believeth on him is not condemned; but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God” (John 3:18).

“He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life; and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him” (John 3:36).

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life” (John 5:24).

If you have never been convinced that you are going to hell, it is not going to be possible for you to be sure that you are now on your way to heaven. The Word of God and of the Lord Jesus is our authority for both. If the words of Christ mean anything they mean everything. He assures us of our being lost without Him. He assures us of His power to save those who trust Him. The question is, do we trust His Word alone?

“But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved” (Romans 10:8-9).
  #14  
Old 05-18-2009, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by buzzoff1031 View Post
If I wanted a conversation on repentance I would have posted again in the thread I started on Lordship Salvation. I simply want the truth. Most of you guys seem to know you have it. I, on the other hand hear things like Way of the Master and McArthur, and my wife telling me I need to go to a catholic church, and I get unsure. I am no minister. I think I have above average intelligence. I also over-analyze things. I just want to be saved. I want to know I have the truth, as so many of you here seem to.
2 Corinthians 11:3-4 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

Don't "bear with" them. Anyone who wants to add something to your salvation should be ignored.
  #15  
Old 05-18-2009, 04:44 PM
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I think I'm starting to understand. It's just so hard for me to get past myself and get to Jesus. It's hard for me to realize the work is done. It's hard for me to get past "head knowledge" and get to "heart belief". Should I just accept what the Bible says, even though I struggle with unbelief, and read the Word praying that God will eliminate that very barrier?
  #16  
Old 05-18-2009, 04:58 PM
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I have wondered this at many times. How does one determine the difference between head belief and heart belief, especially when the Bible makes no such differentiation?

How do I know that my faith is real, since I often have the same questions and concerns as buzzoff

The other question is "How much guilt and sorrow must a sinner express in order to be saved?"
  #17  
Old 05-18-2009, 05:57 PM
peopleoftheway peopleoftheway is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Luke View Post
I have wondered this at many times. How does one determine the difference between head belief and heart belief, especially when the Bible makes no such differentiation?

How do I know that my faith is real, since I often have the same questions and concerns as buzzoff

The other question is "How much guilt and sorrow must a sinner express in order to be saved?"
Luke My dad believes in Jesus in his head, he acknowledges that Jesus is a historical figure, real and not imaginative but he does not believe that if he wont accept him as his personal Saviour and admit he is a guilty sinner who will suffer an eternal punishment in hell and that being "born again" is the ONLY way to heaven. That's mind belief, hes not saved
To believe that without Christ you are a guilty sinner heading for eternal damnation, to acknowledge that Christ is the ONLY way to heaven
John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

To believe in his finished work on the cross for YOU because he loved YOU enough to send his only begotten Son to die for YOUR sins
1 John 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

Luke Bro you really need to get over the repentance issue you have, some people are taken to the brink, the edge of life broken and destitute before they see the truth, through drink, drugs, abuse, broken homes, broken marriages, death of loved ones etc and their sorrow may be greater than someone who is just not satisfied with life but as long as they both come before a risen Saviour in need of his salvation, guilty sinners before the cross and damned to an eternal hell without him and BELIEVE his words, they WILL be saved. its in the heart and with the heart we BELIEVE onto righteousness

Romans 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Just like the nobleman it dosent matter if you doubt it, Jesus said it and no amount of doubting on your part will ever change what he said
“Go thy way, thy son liveth.” DONE, DUSTED, SETTLED
Yet I am sure he doubted all the way home and even when he got home he doubted the hour his son began to amend, but eventually believed, was he only saved then NO, as soon as Christ said “Go thy way, thy son liveth.” it was done, the rest was doubt on the nobelmans part, Bro Luke you can doubt all the way to the end of your days, until the judgement seat of Christ, but nothing will ever change your position in Christ, from you asked him to save you it was DONE, DUSTED, SETTLED, the doubt is all on your part Not the Lords. There is no certain amount or strength or measured breadth depth or height of repentance to be saved, if you realise you are hellbound, dead in your sins without Jesus Christ and his free gift of eternal life you have already accepted in your heart you need him, can you live without him? I doubt you will answer no Brother, therefore in your Heart you know he is your Saviour and you are saved.

John 10:29-31 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
  #18  
Old 05-18-2009, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by buzzoff1031 View Post
Forgive me if this topic is discussed elsewhere, but I generally access this site from my phone, which makes it difficult to do searches. Anyway, I want to know how to get started reading and studying the Bible. I'm 28 and, as yet, have not read through the Bible, nor have I read it with any consistincy. I WANT to read the word. I want to study. I just don't know where to even start. Some say keep a notebook. Some say mark your Bibles. What do I mark? Of what do I take notes? How much do I read a day. Where in the Bible do I start? How much should I study. Sorry if these questions seem dumb, but, despite having grown up in a kjv church, I feel lost!
Buzz, I've read this whole thread and I have not seen one piece of bad advice given to you by the others. The difference in this forum as opposed to others is these people here are all caring and compassionate people. This is not a boxing ring as many forums are, and the only one I care to hang out in and interact with people in.

You are not "lost", in my opinion, but are confused. What advice do I give you? You need to start reading the book of Romans and read on through Philemon and then start back at Romans again, Buzz. I make it no secret I am a dispensationalist nor do I keep my views a secret. You need to know who you are in Christ, you will not find this in Leviticus or Hebrews, but in Romans through Philemon.

You need to understand all the Bible is for you, but not all of it is written to you.

You need to understand what God did yesterday(Genesis-Acts 28), what He is doing today(Romans-Philemon), what He will be doing in Ages To Come(Hebrews-Revelation).

If you start in the OT you will hit the begat who begat who begat who begat and you will tire and stop there, and next thing you'll be shaloming and el shadai'ing left and right and trying to keep the Law. The Law was to lead the Jews to Christ and His revelation through Paul to you today in Romans through Philemon will tell you His will for Buzz today.

You cannot fulfill the "Great Commission", it is not to you, your "commission" begins with your next door neighbor and your community, to be a minister of the reconciliation and an ambassador for Christ.

You need to know the difference between a Jew and a Gentile and the third race, the church of the Living God. You need to know the difference between Israel and the Body of Christ, the mystery of Jew and Gentile now together and equal in one Body that was only revealed to Paul. You will only find this in Romans through Philemon because Peter, James, and John did not receive this revelation until Paul got it from Christ Himself. They then continued in the kingdom of heaven gospel because that was their Commission, while Paul preached the gospel for today, the grace of God through Christ crucified to Jew and Gentile apart from the works of the Law.

Find out God's will for today, and you'll only find it in Romans through Philemon, then you can know what He did yesterday and what He will do in the future. Be thoroughly furnished unto good works, be prepared to endure hardness as a good soldier for Christ, preach Christ crucified because that is what He is doing today, the ministry of the reconciliation to wit, God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself.

Find out what His will is for you today.

Grace and peace to you Buzz.

Tony

Last edited by tonybones2112; 05-18-2009 at 07:54 PM. Reason: typo
  #19  
Old 05-18-2009, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by buzzoff1031 View Post
I think I'm starting to understand. It's just so hard for me to get past myself and get to Jesus. It's hard for me to realize the work is done. It's hard for me to get past "head knowledge" and get to "heart belief". Should I just accept what the Bible says, even though I struggle with unbelief, and read the Word praying that God will eliminate that very barrier?
This is how you know you are a saved man Buzz, that internal conflict. Lost people do not have that internal conflict but continue in their sins without any thought or conviction.

Read Romans 8, all of it, and tell me then who can separate Buzz from the love of Christ? Read Romans through Philemon and find out His will for you, and who you are in Christ today.

Grace and peace.

Tony
  #20  
Old 05-18-2009, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Luke View Post
I have wondered this at many times. How does one determine the difference between head belief and heart belief, especially when the Bible makes no such differentiation?

How do I know that my faith is real, since I often have the same questions and concerns as buzzoff

The other question is "How much guilt and sorrow must a sinner express in order to be saved?"
Luke, when Christ died for your sins, how man of them were yet future?

All
Of
Them

You need to get into Romans 8, and realize this internal conflict does not take place in lost people. I spent 4 hours Sunday teaching a young Jewish woman, a convert to the gospel of Christ, a co-worker of my wife, the realities if what God is doing for her today(Paul's gospel and doctrine for today, Roma's through Philemon) and the internal conflict and Christ's love for her that nothing can separate her from.

Grace and peace to you brother

Tony
 

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