[chette777]

King,

Is it safe to assume that a majority of those are Hamite descendants correct?

[KingSolomon1611]

Originally Posted by chette777

King,

Is it safe to assume that a majority of those are Hamite descendants correct?

It is safe.

[chette777]

Yeah it is sad to say know the Hamite's want the Jhaphite Americans to apologize for slavery and give them appropriations. when it was God who put them in that predicament. They should thank the God of Israel they have freedom in the USofA. I have seen a few Hamite submit themselves to a Jhaphite company owner and work hard and that Jhaphite has blessed them and they are well off because of that.

[Brother Tim]

Where are the posters, George and others, that examine the exactness of God's words, and yet are silent with this absolute distortion of Scripture?

Underlining and bold mine for emphasis:

Genesis 9:25 And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.
26 And he said, Blessed be the LORD God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.
27 God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.

Can someone show me, Chette, Solomon, or others, WHERE the entire family of Ham was cursed??? ONE man's decendents, Canaan's, were cursed. These are NOT identified as all black-skinned people!!!

It is apparent that some among us have fallen into the trap of bigotry.

Who are the Canaanites (who received the curse)?

Genesis 10:6 And the sons of Ham; Cush, and Mizraim, and Phut, and Canaan.

Genesis 10:15 And Canaan begat Sidon his firstborn, and Heth,
16 And the Jebusite, and the Amorite, and the Girgasite,
17 And the Hivite, and the Arkite, and the Sinite,
18 And the Arvadite, and the Zemarite, and the Hamathite: and afterward were the families of the Canaanites spread abroad.
19 And the border of the Canaanites was from Sidon, as thou comest to Gerar, unto Gaza; as thou goest, unto Sodom, and Gomorrah, and Admah, and Zeboim, even unto Lasha.

Refer again to verse 19. Is any of this territory in Africa???

This idea of equating the black-skinned person with the curse of Canaan is false, ignorant, and shameful. It needs to be retracted and rejected!

[tonybones2112]

Originally Posted by Brother Tim

Where are the posters, George and others, that examine the exactness of God's words, and yet are silent with this absolute distortion of Scripture?

Underlining and bold mine for emphasis:Can someone show me, Chette, Solomon, or others, WHERE the entire family of Ham was cursed??? ONE man's decendents, Canaan's, were cursed. These are NOT identified as all black-skinned people!!!

It is apparent that some among us have fallen into the trap of bigotry.

Who are the Canaanites (who received the curse)?


Refer again to verse 19. Is any of this territory in Africa???

This idea of equating the black-skinned person with the curse of Canaan is false, ignorant, and shameful. It needs to be retracted and rejected!

Tim, I'm working on the passages myself at the moment, from the perspective of what the SCRIPTURES say, precept upon precept, line upon line. This is another example of things I've said many times: You can't bend the Scriptures around a preconceived notion, they don;t bend. You either bend with them or you break.

I have computer problems at the moment, but needless to say, there is no link between Leviticus 18 and Genesis 9. I'll demonstrate what Noah "knew" was "done to him" and it wasn;t sodomy. The curse was fulfilled and does not extend into the Grace age, we were not prophesied in the Scriptures(Eph. 3) We were all, black and white, red, purple and green, out of the commonwealth of Israel BUT NOW made nigh by the blood of Christ. I find the whole premise as distasteful as you do.

Grace and peace brother

Tony

[Diligent]

Brothers Tim and Tony,

I'm with you guys. I'm really, really tired of people reading into this passage -- both in making assumptions about what was "done to" Noah and assuming that our modern ideas of "race" can be grafted on to the curse in some way.

[peopleoftheway]

Originally Posted by Diligent

Brothers Tim and Tony,

I'm with you guys. I'm really, really tired of people reading into this passage -- both in making assumptions about what was "done to" Noah and assuming that our modern ideas of "race" can be grafted on to the curse in some way.

Agreed Brother.

Only when we are received into Glory will this topic be settled for me when I hear it straight from the Lords lips, as far as what was "done" unto Noah, does it matter to our salvation? no of course not, the trouble with speculation is that it is NOT exact truth, unless the Bible was absolutely CLEAR about what was done unto Noah, I choose not to speculate but simply rest in the fact all these questions I see through a glass darkly will one day be answered in a manner that no man on earth through speculation will ever attain to, the truth from the Blessed Saviour, the Word himself, the Lord Jesus Christ
Until that day I pray that The Lord keeps my thoughts fuzzy and unclear when it comes to speculation, for I know I shouldn't be doing it.

Psalms 19:14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.

[tonybones2112]

Originally Posted by Diligent

Brothers Tim and Tony,

I'm with you guys. I'm really, really tired of people reading into this passage -- both in making assumptions about what was "done to" Noah and assuming that our modern ideas of "race" can be grafted on to the curse in some way.

Brandon, I'm having mucho computer problems, I've missed being in the forum. I'm gonna use this message of yours as a base so to speak, and explore the various myths dealing with Scripture being used to justify hatred becasue of something as insignificant as skin color.

God put a mark on Cain and many, many people stop there, and say, "h'it was black skin..." without reading what the Scriptures say. Why did God put a mark on Cain? "Wayall, he killded his brother..."

Ge 4:15 And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.

oops. All those hangings, burnings, shootings, stabbings, stonings, and dragging behind pickup trucks has put a lot of the white pointy kaps into hell. If the "mark" was "black skin", we should be as nice as we can to black folks because the "mark" was given for Cain's protection, not curse.

It's possible if every murder in the Bible is studied, the identity of this "mark" might be revealed, if there is a reason God would want to have us know it. People have commented to me the mark of Cain and the mark of The Beast in Revelation is the same mark> Rationally I can;t see this as being the same mark. The mark of Revelation is a mark of damnation, the mark put on Cain was for his protection. I can also find no Scriptural evidence that God has cursed one race of people from nearly Adamic times to the present, considering that "Hamites" are Gentiles and according to Eph. 2 and 3 all Gentiles, from then to the revelation given to Paul of the mystery of Jew and Gentile in the same Body co-equal, we were all out of the Commonwealth of Israel, we were all afar off "but now" all made nigh by the blood of Christ, "Hamites" and "Japethites".

An anthopological anomaly exists that cannot be explained by the JEB Stuart College Of Natural Sciences: The aborigines of the Solomon Islands are scientifically and anthropologically Caucasians, their skin is black as coal.

The native tribes of Africa did not jump into little wooden canoes and cross the Atlantic to invade South Carolina in the 1600s, these people were brought here against their will, stolen from their homes and sent here in the most brutal conditions known to man and subjected to persecution that makes the children of Israel in Egypt look cushy.

I'm a pretty hard person and I have a "secret sin" I make no secret of: I'm a cynic. I'm the person they used to invent the word "cynic". But there are two things I will absolutely not tolerate in a Christian setting of any kind where I hold the reins: Galatianism, being made nigh by the Spirit through the shed blood of Christ and then made "perfect" by "ordinances", "obediences", "traditions", "laws", and using the Scriptures to justify racism.

My next message will demonstrate the Scriptures disconnecting Leviticus 18 from Genesis 9.

Grace and peace friends

Tony

[tonybones2112]

Originally Posted by Diligent

Brothers Tim and Tony,

I'm with you guys. I'm really, really tired of people reading into this passage -- both in making assumptions about what was "done to" Noah and assuming that our modern ideas of "race" can be grafted on to the curse in some way.

I notice brother Presswood already addressed this anomaly, I guess for some people you have to draw a picture. In 1988 I wrote a tract called the Levitical Lynch Mob, this is the gist of the tract:

Gen. 9:18 ¶ And the sons of Noah, that went forth of the ark, were Shem, and Ham, and Japheth: and Ham is the father of Canaan.
19 These are the three sons of Noah: and of them was the whole earth overspread.
20 And Noah began to be an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard:
21 And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent.
22 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.
23 And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father’s nakedness.
24 And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.
25 And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.


"Saw nakedness" is found nowhere else in the Scriptures, and is cross-referred to Leviticus 18 to mean "lie carnally with":

Lev. 18:7 The nakedness of thy father, or the nakedness of thy mother, shalt thou not uncover: she is thy mother; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.

There are two problems that impeach this private interpretation:

1. Noah passed out naked, no one "uncovered" anything, he was already "uncovered" by his own fault of getting drunk.
2. Nowhere in the Scriptures is the phrase to "see" someone's "nakedness" to mean to "lie carnally with" but implies a physical act of "uncovering".

There are three places in Genesis in the KJV that "KJV Onlys" retranslated the Scriptures: Genesis 1 and the "gap"( the earth was without form and made void, rather than just "void"), Genesis 6 with "nephIlim", and Genesis 9 with the insertion of the word "sodomized". Let's look at this private interpretation:

Gen. 9:20 And Noah began to be an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard:
21 And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent.
22 And Ham, the father of Canaan, sodomized his father, and told his two brethren without.
23 And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and unsodomized their father; and their faces were backward, and they sodomized their father not.
24 And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.
25 And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.

That makes a whole lot of sense and is the product of a "sound mind", isn't it? There you have it, and there is no way in the Universe it can be changed. If "saw the nakedness of" means to "lie carnally with" then Ham sodomized Noah and the Shem and Japeth somehow "unsodomized" him by covering him with a blanket or animal skin so that they would not sodomize him? By the same method of private interpretaion, what does "cover the nakedness of" mean? Is this somehow a way to "fix" a sexual tresspass?

My next message will show "what Noah saw that was done to him."

As i said, with some people you have to draw them a picture.

Grace and peace

Tony

[George]

Originally Posted by Brother Tim

"Where are the posters, George and others, that examine the exactness of God's words, and yet are silent with this absolute distortion of Scripture?

Underlining and bold mine for emphasis:Can someone show me, Chette, Solomon, or others, WHERE the entire family of Ham was cursed??? ONE man's decendents, Canaan's, were cursed. These are NOT identified as all black-skinned people!!!

It is apparent that some among us have fallen into the trap of bigotry.

Who are the Canaanites (who received the curse)?


Refer again to verse 19. Is any of this territory in Africa???

This idea of equating the black-skinned person with the curse of Canaan is false, ignorant, and shameful. It needs to be retracted and rejected! "

Brother Tim,

WHY have you singled me out (out of ALL the "active" members)? Am I obligated (in any way) to comment on every single issue that crops up on this Forum?

I do not have time today, but I will answer your question - and then I will have a "question" for you!

In the mean time - I have maintained for some time now that a society's (whether a Country, a State, a City, a Town, or even institutions like Schools, Churches, Clubs, etc.) "BELIEF SYSTEM" produces a "CULTURE", and that "CULTURE", in turn, produces the form of GOVERNMENT that will govern that society: Witness the predominately Roman Catholic Countries in South America, Central America, Mexico, the Caribbean, the Philippines and Western Europe; witness the Eastern Orthodox Countries of Eastern Europe and Asia; witness the Hindu Countries of Asia; witness the Buddhist Countries of Asia; witness the Confucian Countries of Asia; and witness the Islamic Countries of the Mid-East; Africa; Asia; and Indonesia.
{This is WHY it is "FUTILE" to try to "DEMOCRATIZE" an Islamic Country!}

Our own country has undergone a radical "SHIFT" in it's "BELIEF SYSTEM" (Look at our elected "leaders" ) in the last one hundred years (from a basically Judeao/Christian "BELIEF SYSTEM" to a HUMANISTIC "BELIEF SYSTEM" - This is WHY it is "FUTILE" to try to "CHANGE" the "SYSTEM" (i.e. Government) from within! ) WHAT a nation's people "BELIEVE" is reflected in the form of Government they have and the Character of its leaders!

I shall answer your question, but I WONDER WHY you singled me out - out of all the people on this Forum????

2 Corinthians 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.