[Forrest]

Originally Posted by pbiwolski

Taking doctrine at simply "that which is taught," allow me to catagorize some things. First, realize who is doing the teaching (be specific, don't say God for each one), and also who is being taught. To mention a few...


There is doctrine as taught to the nation of Israel.
There is doctrine as taught to the church.
There is doctrine as taught to those in the future tribulation.
There is doctrine as taught to those living during the Millennial kingdom, etc.

These doctrines are not the same, and find application in different ages to different peoples. You understand the point.

Proverbs 1:10 would fall into which of these catagories?

Writer: Solomon, king of Israel
Recipient: "My son,..." the son(s) of King Solomon

This follows the HISTORICAL application of scripture, that is, (1) a writer wrote the verse in question (2) to a recipient (3) at a certain point in history (probably late in the life of Solomon). Simply put, "it was good advice from dad."

Now for the doctrine.

The verse finds itself lending DOCTRINAL information to someone who had better stay away from sinners and "forsake not the law," verse 8. The chapter lends itself to the context of the Second Coming of Christ before it ends, and points the Jew to living right (works) in order to "dwell safely." (The cross references here a plenteous, noticing the words used by God to connect it with other passages.)

So here the doctrine is not aimed at the believer in the NT. But what about us?

The third and final application of scripture is SPIRITUAL application. Here's where we can get insight and not create problems in the Bible. While the passage is not directly written to us, nor is it in it's context aimed at the church, we can still gain application of the spiritual nature. Here, the truth is obvious (and again the backing from Paul writings to the church is plenteous).

The book of Proverbs (as is the whole OT) is loaded with spiritual truths. However, there are places where Proverbs does not match Pauline doctrine to the church. So when establishing doctrine, you had better stay with the "apostle to the Gentiles," and the doctrines that were given and aimed at you.


P.S. This is not the JW's form of doing away with scripture ("spiritualizing") to match their own doctrine. This is a form of sound right division of the word of truth.

That's very well written brother/sister. And I find no points of disagreement.

My understanding is that when Old Testament doctrine (like in Proverbs) agrees with the "Pauline doctrines" as found in the New Testament, they (the doctrines which are written in the Old Testament) are profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness and a "spiritual application" can and should be made by the New Testament believer.

The emphasis of your teaching seems to have become an issue of "Old" verses "New" and it appears to me you are attempting to make sure that I know the Pauline "doctrine" which is exclusively contained in the New Testament, is written to the followers of the Lord Jesus Christ. Is that what you are teaching? If so, thank you for the sound admonishment. I receive it and I appreciate your reminder.

I certainly agree that careful interpretation of history, doctrine, and spiritual application helps us to stay with the "apostle to the Gentiles," and the doctrines that were given and aimed at us. That is why it's so important for us to rightly divide the word of truth.

But I accept that, "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and [all scripture] is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works" (2 Timothy 3:16-17).

Not all Old Testament scripture is "applicable" to me as a disciple of the Lord Jesus Christ. But I will not say some of God's inspired word is not profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness when He said "all" is. The scripture written in the Old and New Testament's are profitable for doctrine, and many of them are in agreement with Paul's writings making them "applicable" to my life. We should simply, "Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage" (Galatians 5:1).