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  #21  
Old 07-18-2009, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by George View Post
Brother Forrest said:
Aloha brother Forrest,

I'm with you on this one. I do not think that it is wrong to have your body cremated. I "prefer" not to, but that is my "preference".

What do we do with:I profess that I do not fully understand what the Apostle Paul is getting at here in 1 Corinthians, but it seems to me that the Apostle Paul had NO OBJECTIONS to cremation (and there may have been some "charitable" act involved in cremation ) - so that's "good enough for me".
1 Corinthians 13:3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

Aloha brother George,

This verse comes to my mind:

Romans 9:3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:

The idea of being sacrificed.

Jen
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  #22  
Old 07-18-2009, 06:30 PM
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for me I don't even want formaldehyde put in my body. Which gives them 3 days to bury me.
  #23  
Old 07-18-2009, 09:38 PM
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Frankly I don't care what they would do. I am trying to give WingWiper things to consider in his search for "the" answer...if there is one.

I said and I quote "for me" I would not choose cremation.[/QUOTE]

Well said................Thanks.

Thank everyone so far for their posts............good stuff. You guys make some good points............although I read 1 or 2 where maybe my original post is not understood or folk are reading me the wrong way. Let me make sure that I clarify if I misled anyone that I am looking for wisdom and discourse on the subject of cremation. I'm a disabled vet in a wheelchair, when this old body gives out.............help yo self, I'm out of here. Worm food or dust...............I don't care.

I am not trying to pull Old Testament or Old Covenant doctrine, scripture to this dispensation........... not looking backwards if you will. I am fully aware of 2 Tim. 2:15 as many of you pointed out and well taken (I'm in the right place!) and know when we read--- we are to be aware as to who is speaking and to whom is being spoken to. I was only offering as someone mentioned some shadows from the Old Testament but never said that it was or is Pauline Epistle. I offered only examples.

Just looking to see if anyone knew direct scripture for yea or nea on the subject. They're not questioning their salvation or eternal security..............., but more on is there a scripture directly on the subject. Yes...............I agree that it does not matter because we already have the victory, shadows we learn by, the law is our schoolmaster, etc.

I would suggest maybe that the normal burial today vs. Jewish burial I referenced to (Old Testament) is just as heathen as cremation due to the fact we duplicate (in part) the Egyptians in regards to embalming, preserving the body into the afterlife. I'm sure there is someone that would disagree with that, but there's a big difference in wrapping a body in linen, putting it in the ground vs the process of burial today. Embalmed and preserved for what............? I'm sure the environmentalists or maybe someone here would argue that point.
  #24  
Old 07-18-2009, 09:57 PM
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Default Re: "Hello......Looking For Help On Cremation"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amanda S. View Post
"Ok that totally made me laugh out loud"

"Is this not obviously referring to offering yourself as a sacrifice?!"

"I can just see Paul..." "Though I cremate my body it profiteth me nothing"

Aloha sister Amanda,

Nothing is "obvious" at all! And I see nothing "humorous" about my comments.

You CHANGED Paul's "words" (and then ADDED your own) to match your "private interpretation". {You also SUBTRACTED FROM God’s holy word – i.e. “
and have not charity”}

The Apostle Paul said:

Quote:
Quote:
1 Corinthians 13:3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
You said:
Quote:
Quote:
"Though I cremate my body it profiteth me nothing" {There's a BIG DIFFERENCE - IF "words" mean anything at all!}
Nothing is being said about someone "SACRIFICING" their living "body" - can you imagine the Apostle Paul talking about SACRIFICING himself ("by burning"?) for anyone. This, after years of preaching and teaching about the ONE EFFECTUAL & FINAL "SACRIFICE" [1Corinthian 1:23, 2:2] made by the Lord Jesus Christ (BY "CRUCIFIXION" - NOT by "burning") The verse is talking about GIVING a "body" (a DEAD "body") to be "burned" - NOT a "burnt offering"!

Consider the "CONTEXT" of verse three:
Quote:
And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
In the context the verse is talking about "GIVING" - NOT "SACRIFICING"! Paul talks about - "bestowing" (GIVING) all his goods "TO FEED THE POOR"; and then he talks about “GIVING” (NOTSACRIFICING” – the word “sacrifice” is NOT in the entire Chapter, and neither is the word "offering") his body to be “burned” (NOT as a "burnt offering"); and the point he was making is – if he does not have CHARITY – “IT PROFITETH ME NOTHING” (when he gets to the judgment seat of Christ - even if he gave "his body to be burned").

Paul was speaking to the Corinthian church (a predominantly Gentile church) and, if you check your Greek & Roman history - quite often the Gentiles would "cremate" their dead. {"Context" - it's always about "CONTEXT"!}

Ephesians 5:2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet smelling savour.

1 Corinthians 1:23
But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

1 Corinthians 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
  #25  
Old 07-18-2009, 10:34 PM
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1st Corinthians 13 is about charity. Everything in the entire chapter is.
1 Corinthians 13:3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

This verse doesn't say anything about death -- that can only be inferred by the reader.

Since Paul already talks about our bodies being living sacrifices it isn't a stretch to make that connection here.
Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
We know that burning is a proper mode of sacrifice in the Old Testament. The words burn and sacrifice (including the various word forms of burn) appear together in 97 verses in the Bible.

Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego "yielded their bodies" to be burned rather than forsake God.
Daniel 3:28 Then Nebuchadnezzar spake, and said, Blessed be the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, who hath sent his angel, and delivered his servants that trusted in him, and have changed the king's word, and yielded their bodies, that they might not serve nor worship any god, except their own God.

It may be that Paul isn't talking about being a living sacrifice in the verse in question, but he doesn't say anything about giving his body to someone -- that is speculation. I can think of a few martyrs who gave their bodies to be burned.

Anyway, I don't see how this verse in 1st Corinthians could be used to support or condemn cremation.

Here is an example of at least partial cremation in the Bible, which I seemed to have missed before:
1 Samuel 31:12-13 All the valiant men arose, and went all night, and took the body of Saul and the bodies of his sons from the wall of Bethshan, and came to Jabesh, and burnt them there. And they took their bones, and buried them under a tree at Jabesh, and fasted seven days.
They burned the bodies then buried the bones. Now everybody should be happy.
  #26  
Old 07-18-2009, 10:40 PM
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Quote:
Aloha sister Amanda,

Nothing is "obvious" at all!
Aloha yourself Brother

You are quite correct. I will concede. This Scripture is not obviously talking about cremation or sacrifice. One of those passages that causes one to scratch his head.


Quote:
You CHANGED Paul's "words" (and then ADDED your own) to match your "private interpretation". {You also SUBTRACTED FROM God’s holy word – i.e. “and have not charity”}
Go ahead. Fry me up now and serve me with chips...I was intending to paraphrase. But yes you are correct I added and subtracted. Forgive me. But I evidently misunderstood you to say that "give my body to be burned" meant cremation. I thought that was your private interpretation.

Upon reflection rather than a sacrifice, a burnt offering as you said I said, a type of martyr is really what I had in mind.

Quote:
Paul was speaking to the Corinthian church (a predominantly Gentile church) and, if you check your Greek & Roman history - quite often the Gentiles would "cremate" their dead. {"Context" - it's always about "CONTEXT"!}
Perhaps rather than studying Greek and Roman history for their frequency of cremation, I should study how cremation is charitable? I'll let you know what I find.

I do not think the argument for cremation in the Bible is nearly as strong as the argument for burial is. Again let me say I am not saying there is a commandment or that it is "wrong" or a "sin" to cremate for I believe if it were that big of an issue the Bible would be clearer.

BUT having said that, the Bible refers to burial over and over and over again. Even Baptism is a picture of death, burial and resurrection. All through church history cremation was frowned upon. It's not until recent times has that come into question. From time immemorial the heathen are the ones who cremate.

Again, it's not forbidden but perhaps it boils down to the motive for cremation?
  #27  
Old 07-18-2009, 10:47 PM
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Quote:
1st Corinthians 13 is about charity. Everything in the entire chapter is.

1 Corinthians 13:3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

This verse doesn't say anything about death -- that can only be inferred by the reader.

Since Paul already talks about our bodies being living sacrifices it isn't a stretch to make that connection here.

Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

We know that burning is a proper mode of sacrifice in the Old Testament. The words burn and sacrifice (including the various word forms of burn) appear together in 97 verses in the Bible.

Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego "yielded their bodies" to be burned rather than forsake God.

Daniel 3:28 Then Nebuchadnezzar spake, and said, Blessed be the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, who hath sent his angel, and delivered his servants that trusted in him, and have changed the king's word, and yielded their bodies, that they might not serve nor worship any god, except their own God.

It may be that Paul isn't talking about being a living sacrifice in the verse in question, but he doesn't say anything about giving his body to someone -- that is speculation. I can think of a few martyrs who gave their bodies to be burned.

Anyway, I don't see how this verse in 1st Corinthians could be used to support or condemn cremation.
Phenomenal! You did that with such ease!? Oh if only I could present my thoughts in such a manner. But I am learning. Ever learning.

Quote:
Here is an example of at least partial cremation in the Bible, which I seemed to have missed before:

1 Samuel 31:12-13 All the valiant men arose, and went all night, and took the body of Saul and the bodies of his sons from the wall of Bethshan, and came to Jabesh, and burnt them there. And they took their bones, and buried them under a tree at Jabesh, and fasted seven days.

They burned the bodies then buried the bones. Now everybody should be happy.
LoL
But even this instance boiled down to motive. To keep the Philistines from having their way with the bodies and desecrating them.
  #28  
Old 07-18-2009, 10:52 PM
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WingWiper

You said:
Quote:
Let me make sure that I clarify if I misled anyone that I am looking for wisdom and discourse on the subject of cremation.
That is all I was intending to offer. Discourse...not prove "my position". I hope that was obvious.

  #29  
Old 07-18-2009, 10:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chette777 View Post
for me I don't even want formaldehyde put in my body. Which gives them 3 days to bury me.
That's grim.
  #30  
Old 07-18-2009, 10:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amanda S. View Post
But even this instance boiled down to motive. To keep the Philistines from having their way with the bodies and desecrating them.
Well, no, the Philistines already had their way with Saul, just a few verses up. They cut of his head, paraded his body around the land, and pinned his body to a wall. I suppose of motive was in play, shame and embarrassment over what had been done to the bodies might have been a factor -- but that is mere speculation, just like saying Paul was talking about burning his dead body in 1Co 13.

I find cremation a distasteful practice, but I have to admit that my opinion on cremation is not backed up directly in Scripture. Given that we are three pages into this topic and nobody has produced a single verse clearly condemning cremation, perhaps we can come to an agreement that there is nothing Scriptural to be said of it one way or another, and we ought to let people do as they will without burdening them with guilt over something that God didn't bother to comment on in his Book.
 

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