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Old 07-18-2009, 09:43 AM
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wingwiper wingwiper is offline
 
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Default Hello......Looking For Help On Cremation

Howdy Folks................

I mentioned in my first post (- thread: a little experiment...........) that although being a newbie (howdy folks.....) as a poster, I've been lurking here for some time which is probably selfish on my part. The depth and knowledge that is with a willing heart provided here is just humbling. So a big thanks from this 'ol saved sinner to you guys who faithfully, scripturally----- stand and defend the Book.

Another reason for my post is to look for a little help if I can. As I noted in my previous post that being a disabled vet myself --- God putting me (allowing me) in a ministry to serve our veterans I had a guy ask me a question in our Friday Bible Study. Is it OK to be cremated..................? Now if I don't if I don't know the answer to a question or can put my finger on scripture I try to be honest enough to say I don't know.................and will get back, pray about it and ask for God to please reveal what it is I'm searching and/or go ask someone who knows better than me.

I know it was important not to leave Joseph's bones behind and we all know we're basically walking mud puddles--- God made Adam from the dust which is from the ground (earthy), the ground is and has a curse on it so everything goes back to the ground. We have a person (not just something) inside of us who enables that part of us that is already seated in glory--- when the flesh/body gives up...........takes us up while of course that part of us that is not saved goes to the grave (worm food). I've got guys anywhere from 62 up to 101 years of age who really don't want to be cremated because they think @ the rapture there's no body to call up (if their cremated) and their soul can't reunite with there body. Now please remember I have taught them otherwise...........but as we get up in age the mind ain't what it used to be.

We all know that our body is going to reunite with our soul (there's a zillion scriptures to support) knowing when Christ comes back as commander-in-chief were in that army following Him and also a good husband never leaves his wife behind! For us to ride a horse..........there's got to be a body (like that of Christ's) and those who will have the reward (conditional) of reigning in the Millennium will need something-- a body to reign in.

So is there scripture or scripture in type that one can offer on not to be cremated or does it even matter............? Just so you know a lot of the veterans there, etc. are cremated in part because they are there...........mostly forgotten, no shekels ($), yadda, yadda..........

Thanks folks..........
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  #2  
Old 07-18-2009, 12:26 PM
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Forrest Forrest is offline
 
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Originally Posted by wingwiper View Post
Howdy Folks................

I mentioned in my first post (- thread: a little experiment...........) that although being a newbie (howdy folks.....) as a poster, I've been lurking here for some time which is probably selfish on my part. The depth and knowledge that is with a willing heart provided here is just humbling. So a big thanks from this 'ol saved sinner to you guys who faithfully, scripturally----- stand and defend the Book.

Another reason for my post is to look for a little help if I can. As I noted in my previous post that being a disabled vet myself --- God putting me (allowing me) in a ministry to serve our veterans I had a guy ask me a question in our Friday Bible Study. Is it OK to be cremated..................? Now if I don't if I don't know the answer to a question or can put my finger on scripture I try to be honest enough to say I don't know.................and will get back, pray about it and ask for God to please reveal what it is I'm searching and/or go ask someone who knows better than me.

I know it was important not to leave Joseph's bones behind and we all know we're basically walking mud puddles--- God made Adam from the dust which is from the ground (earthy), the ground is and has a curse on it so everything goes back to the ground. We have a person (not just something) inside of us who enables that part of us that is already seated in glory--- when the flesh/body gives up...........takes us up while of course that part of us that is not saved goes to the grave (worm food). I've got guys anywhere from 62 up to 101 years of age who really don't want to be cremated because they think @ the rapture there's no body to call up (if their cremated) and their soul can't reunite with there body. Now please remember I have taught them otherwise...........but as we get up in age the mind ain't what it used to be.

We all know that our body is going to reunite with our soul (there's a zillion scriptures to support) knowing when Christ comes back as commander-in-chief were in that army following Him and also a good husband never leaves his wife behind! For us to ride a horse..........there's got to be a body (like that of Christ's) and those who will have the reward (conditional) of reigning in the Millennium will need something-- a body to reign in.

So is there scripture or scripture in type that one can offer on not to be cremated or does it even matter............? Just so you know a lot of the veterans there, etc. are cremated in part because they are there...........mostly forgotten, no shekels ($), yadda, yadda..........

Thanks folks..........
Maybe this will help.

1 Corinthians 15:50-57 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Cremation kind of 's me out. But I don't think there are any special Biblical doctrines that instruct us to preserve, imbalm, or not destroy the mortal body. My mom, who is a believer, is doing the cremation thing to save the money.
  #3  
Old 07-18-2009, 01:10 PM
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wingwiper wingwiper is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Forrest View Post
Maybe this will help.

Cremation kind of 's me out. But I don't think there are any special Biblical doctrines that instruct us to preserve, imbalm, or not destroy the mortal body. My mom, who is a believer, is doing the cremation thing to save the money.
Your verses are good................will store those away, thanks.

I guess where I'm at is as you stated............just can't put my finger quite on it. Personally knowing I'm going to get a new incorruptable body it don't matter about what happens to this one................, but just wanting to provide help to others is where I'm at. Alot of the veterans as they should still have alot of pride for serving their country, are very honorable men and women in their own right................where if I were to dig or assume would gauge that their thinking it is a dishonor to be cremated verses burial.

Keep in mind that I constantly harp that if your saved your dying in the righteousness that is in Jesus Christ............don't worry about your [current] body because you have no control when it's time to go. Something about that flesh that they can't let go of.

However.......knowing the heathen religions out there practice cremation-- Hinduism, etc. who burn the body because they believe in reincarnation, yet knowing at the same time I can't find anything doctrinally that would cause a Christian not to.

Comparing spiritual things with spiritual things it is evident that God's people practiced burial which would be an example, although not a commandment.

Romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

1 Corinthians 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.


• Abraham was buried (Genesis 25:8-10)
• Sarah was buried (Genesis 23:1-4)
• Rachel was buried (Genesis 35:19-20)
• Isaac was buried (Genesis 35:29)
• Jacob was buried (Genesis 49:33; 50:1-13)
• Joseph was buried (Genesis 50:26)
• Joshua was buried (Joshua 24:29-30)
• Eleazar was buried (Joshua 24:33)
• Samuel was buried (1 Samuel 25:1)
• David was buried (1 Kings 2:10)
• John the Baptist was buried (Matthew 14:10-12)
• Ananias and Sapphira were buried (Acts 5:5-10)
• Stephen was buried (Acts 8:2)
  #4  
Old 07-18-2009, 01:19 PM
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Forrest Forrest is offline
 
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Originally Posted by wingwiper View Post
Your verses are good................will store those away, thanks.

I guess where I'm at is as you stated............just can't put my finger quite on it. Personally knowing I'm going to get a new incorruptable body it don't matter about what happens to this one................, but just wanting to provide help to others is where I'm at. Alot of the veterans as they should still have alot of pride for serving their country, are very honorable men and women in their own right................where if I were to dig or assume would gauge that their thinking it is a dishonor to be cremated verses burial.

Keep in mind that I constantly harp that if your saved your dying in the righteousness that is in Jesus Christ............don't worry about your [current] body because you have no control when it's time to go. Something about that flesh that they can't let go of.

However.......knowing the heathen religions out there practice cremation-- Hinduism, etc. who burn the body because they believe in reincarnation, yet knowing at the same time I can't find anything doctrinally that would cause a Christian not to.

Comparing spiritual things with spiritual things it is evident that God's people practiced burial which would be an example, although not a commandment.

Romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

1 Corinthians 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.


• Abraham was buried (Genesis 25:8-10)
• Sarah was buried (Genesis 23:1-4)
• Rachel was buried (Genesis 35:19-20)
• Isaac was buried (Genesis 35:29)
• Jacob was buried (Genesis 49:33; 50:1-13)
• Joseph was buried (Genesis 50:26)
• Joshua was buried (Joshua 24:29-30)
• Eleazar was buried (Joshua 24:33)
• Samuel was buried (1 Samuel 25:1)
• David was buried (1 Kings 2:10)
• John the Baptist was buried (Matthew 14:10-12)
• Ananias and Sapphira were buried (Acts 5:5-10)
• Stephen was buried (Acts 8:2)
You make some good points, brother.
  #5  
Old 07-18-2009, 01:33 PM
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Amanda S. Amanda S. is offline
 
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Quote:
Comparing spiritual things with spiritual things it is evident that God's people practiced burial which would be an example, although not a commandment.

Romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

1 Corinthians 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

• Abraham was buried (Genesis 25:8-10)
• Sarah was buried (Genesis 23:1-4)
• Rachel was buried (Genesis 35:19-20)
• Isaac was buried (Genesis 35:29)
• Jacob was buried (Genesis 49:33; 50:1-13)
• Joseph was buried (Genesis 50:26)
• Joshua was buried (Joshua 24:29-30)
• Eleazar was buried (Joshua 24:33)
• Samuel was buried (1 Samuel 25:1)
• David was buried (1 Kings 2:10)
• John the Baptist was buried (Matthew 14:10-12)
• Ananias and Sapphira were buried (Acts 5:5-10)
• Stephen was buried (Acts 8:2)
When there is not a commandment I feel that following Biblical example is wise and there is certainly examples given in Scripture on this topic as you suggested.

Also consider this passage in I Corinthians 15:

35  But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

The typology is planting a seed. A farmer does not destroy his seed before planting (cremation), yet he plants it whole (burial). The seed (body) decays naturally in which comes a new life (resurrection).

Also, could we consider the instances where a body was burned up as an act of God's wrath and not a good thing.

This Scripture appears to say here that it is a transgression:

Quote:
1  Thus saith the LORD; For three transgressions of Moab, and for four, I will not turn away the punishment thereof; because he burned the bones of the king of Edom into lime:
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Old 07-18-2009, 02:13 PM
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It doesn't matter one way or the other. These biblical examples of burial, the burning of bodies, are just shadows and similitudes.

Col*2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Col*2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Col*2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Col*2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Col*2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Col*2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Col*2:18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

Col*2:19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.

Col*2:20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,

Col*2:21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;

Col*2:22 Which all are to perish with the using; ) after the commandments and doctrines of men?

Col*2:23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.
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Old 07-18-2009, 02:23 PM
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I agree with sis Jennifer, that it doesn't matter one way or another.

If God was able to form the dust of the ground into a man, surely he is able to gather up the dust of the ashes of a man from cremation, and make him into a man once again! Even if that dust is scattered to the winds, do you doubt the Almighty God's ability to gather up every last bit of dust and remake that person's body?

Jeremiah 32:17 - Ah Lord GOD! behold, thou hast made the heaven and the earth by thy great power and stretched out arm, and there is nothing too hard for thee:
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Old 07-18-2009, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Amanda S. View Post
When there is not a commandment I feel that following Biblical example is wise and there is certainly examples given in Scripture on this topic as you suggested.

Also consider this passage in I Corinthians 15:

35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

The typology is planting a seed. A farmer does not destroy his seed before planting (cremation), yet he plants it whole (burial). The seed (body) decays naturally in which comes a new life (resurrection).

Also, could we consider the instances where a body was burned up as an act of God's wrath and not a good thing.

This Scripture appears to say here that it is a transgression:
Be sure and "rightly divide" the word of truth. Apply New Covenant theology to the question on cremation not Old Testament examples that are not written to us in the first place. Divide the word of truth, don't harmonize it.

What is your view of believers that died on 9/11 in New York? Are they judged as a result of not being buried in a good manner? They were burned, so I ask, was that an act of God's wrath?

Is there any "condemnation" or "judgment" from God whenever a person chooses cremation?
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Old 07-18-2009, 02:38 PM
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Amanda S. Amanda S. is offline
 
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Sisters,

Quote:
I agree with sis Jennifer, that it doesn't matter one way or another.

If God was able to form the dust of the ground into a man, surely he is able to gather up the dust of the ashes of a man from cremation, and make him into a man once again! Even if that dust is scattered to the winds, do you doubt the Almighty God's ability to gather up every last bit of dust and remake that person's body?

Jeremiah 32:17 - Ah Lord GOD! behold, thou hast made the heaven and the earth by thy great power and stretched out arm, and there is nothing too hard for thee:
It's not that it would be too hard for God.

But considering what the Bible has to say, if anything about a certain topic. We should do that with any decision we make. While we may have our liberty as Christians to do as we please in this matter, it is a good thing to compare Scripture with Scripture. The Bible is not completely silent on this matter...The example is there. You will not find a positive Scripture verse in regards to a body being burned.

As Wingwiper stated it is a stumbling block for a lot of Christians. For me that is also a good reason to avoid cremation. Perhaps it is ok to cremate, but I feel we should use our Christian liberty to not be a stumbling block to a weaker brother.
  #10  
Old 07-18-2009, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Amanda S. View Post
Sisters,



It's not that it would be too hard for God.

But considering what the Bible has to say, if anything about a certain topic. We should do that with any decision we make. While we may have our liberty as Christians to do as we please in this matter, it is a good thing to compare Scripture with Scripture. The Bible is not completely silent on this matter...The example is there. You will not find a positive Scripture verse in regards to a body being burned.

As Wingwiper stated it is a stumbling block for a lot of Christians. For me that is also a good reason to avoid cremation. Perhaps it is ok to cremate, but I feel we should use our Christian liberty to not be a stumbling block to a weaker brother.
So, then, according to the Bible, you believe that the Lord will not resurrect those who have gone against what you feel is His teaching from the Bible regarding burial? He will REJECT those people as not doing His clear will?

Mind you, I'm not planning on being cremated myself. Burial is very expensive these days though. My own parents pre-purchased their burial plans. They'd purchased burial space in a masoleum - which is rather like a tomb, as Christ was buried. My father died last March, so he was buried in the masoleum (I hope I'm spelling that right!). My parents are Catholic though - so I don't know what Catholics teach about that.

What should people do if they cannot afford burial expenses?

Jassy
 

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