Doctrine Discussion about matters of the faith.

 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 07-12-2009, 06:46 PM
chette777's Avatar
chette777 chette777 is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Puerto Princesa City, Palawan Philippines
Posts: 1,431
Default

It is not an issue of who it is for or not for. the issue is who is it written to.

All scripture is for our learning, there may not be doctrine for the church in some but there is application. I said above how I determine doctrine and that without limiting the rest of the Bible.

ALL The word is important. you don't see the Hypers just printing out Bibles with only the letters of Paul for their members to use. if you will follow one of the members posts who is hyper you will notice he uses the other books just to prove what is not for the church today according to their understanding.

Is that how we are to use scriptures?

Is that what the Lord says how the word of God is to be used?

NO and without posting the scripture addresses the Word of God is to edify, it is to cause growth, it is to help keep one from sin, is is to encourage, it is for admonition, for learning, to bring joy to ones heart, it is to nurish, it is to cleans, it is to point the way to Jesus Christ, and it is to glorify God and Christ.
The King James Bible Page SwordSearcher Bible Software
  #22  
Old 07-12-2009, 08:46 PM
Biblestudent's Avatar
Biblestudent Biblestudent is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Philippines
Posts: 662
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Schwenke View Post
the site in question is definitely hyper-dispensational and dry-cleaning! be careful!
Brother Steve Schwenke,
Does that imply that some are "hyper-dispensatonal" and not "dry-cleaning"? I am not a dry cleaner, although some may mistake me for a "hyper"(?).
  #23  
Old 07-14-2009, 08:07 PM
larryb's Avatar
larryb larryb is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 19
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by peopleoftheway View Post
Brother If you aren't practising animal sacrifices for sin covering and relying on the shed blood of a risen and glorified Saviour then your a dispensationalist.
Quite a mischaracterization since Covenantal Theology does not promote the practice of animal sacrifice.

One must be careful to read distinctions in the Scripture where they are warranted. There is a difference between the shadows of the OT that pointed to Christ (e.g. animal sacrifices), which were ceremonial laws...and the moral laws as summed up in the 10 commandments, which are still in effect in the new administration of the covenant of grace.
  #24  
Old 07-14-2009, 08:18 PM
larryb's Avatar
larryb larryb is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 19
Default

The Gospeel was also preached to Abraham...

Gal 3:8 - And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed

Other things to consider...

Gal 3:17 - And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

1 Pet 3:18-20
For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
  #25  
Old 07-14-2009, 08:24 PM
chette777's Avatar
chette777 chette777 is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Puerto Princesa City, Palawan Philippines
Posts: 1,431
Default

actually Paul only restated 9 of the ten commandments. The one he didn't restate for us is Sabbath observance. read the way Paul restates the 9 commandments as not to make them required law but spiritually applicable.

LarryB, the gospel preached to Abraham in the OT was not the Gospel of Grace, but it was a gospel. reread Genesis 12, 15, 18 and you will see the gospel there was "the nations would be blessed through his seed". but no where is it ever said faith alone in Christ for the forgiveness of sins. there are many gospels (good news) but only one gospel of grace and only found in the new testament.

Paul reminds us in Galatians That it is Jesus of the seed of Abraham in which all nations would be blessed. Paul like us today is looking back with the info he has at hand. just as we have a tendency to do. we need to be careful not to impose on the OT something that is not there just as Paul did. Paul did not impose the Gospel of Grace he only pointed out the fulfilling of the blessing of all nations is through Jesus Christ.

Last edited by chette777; 07-14-2009 at 08:32 PM.
  #26  
Old 07-14-2009, 08:50 PM
larryb's Avatar
larryb larryb is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 19
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chette777 View Post
actually Paul only restated 9 of the ten commandments. The one he didn't restate for us is Sabbath observance. read the way Paul restates the 9 commandments as not to make them required law but spiritually applicable.
The Scriptures never tell us that only repeated moral commands are still in force...that's pure presumption.
And if that was the case, since the prohibition against beastiality is not made in the NT your logic would lead us to think that it was no longer against God's moral commands.


Quote:
Originally Posted by chette777 View Post
LarryB, the gospel preached to Abraham in the OT was not the Gospel of Grace, but it was a gospel. reread Genesis 12, 15, 18 and you will see the gospel there was "the nations would be blessed through his seed". but no where is it ever said faith alone in Christ for the forgiveness of sins. there are many gospels (good news) but only one gospel of grace and only found in the new testament.
The unity of both the OT and NT covenant is clearly taught in Scripture…
  • Its promise was the same (Ex 19:4-6 cf 1Pet 2:5,9; Jer 31:33cf 2Cor 6:16)
  • Its condition was the same – faith (Gen 15:6 cf Rom 4:3)
  • The object of this faith was the same – Christ (John 8:56; Acts 2:25-32; Heb 4:2)
This is why Christians are made partakers of the blessing of Abraham (Gal 3:8,9,14)

[/QUOTE]
  #27  
Old 07-14-2009, 11:04 PM
chette777's Avatar
chette777 chette777 is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Puerto Princesa City, Palawan Philippines
Posts: 1,431
Default

sounds like covenant theology.

Study more on dispensationalism and search out the three things you mentioned in the forum threads. all have been addressed before.

but I want you to know that 1) we (the body of Christ) have been given no earthly promises, 2) while faith is in all dispensation designs for receiving God's grace, certain works were needed in order to prove their faith was genuine in the OT. and 3) Abraham did not have, nor did any other old testament saint have Jesus as the object of their faith.
  #28  
Old 07-15-2009, 12:06 AM
Luke's Avatar
Luke Luke is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 594
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryb View Post
The Gospeel was also preached to Abraham...

Gal 3:8 - And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed

Other things to consider...

Gal 3:17 - And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

1 Pet 3:18-20
For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
Just a question for you.. when was Abraham saved?

Was it Genesis 15, or Genesis 18, or Genesis 22?

Paul says it was Genesis 15 (In Romans 4), and then above, in Galatians 3 he says it is in Genesis 18 when he hears the gospel. James says it was Genesis 22...

What does Abraham hear in Genesis 18? "In thee all nations shall be blessed". That's not the same gospel you and I hear. And if you want to say it is the gospel of God, then how was Abraham saved (imputed righteousness in Genesis 15) before he even heard it (the quote in Galatians is from Genesis 18).

And that's what rightly dividing is all about....
  #29  
Old 07-15-2009, 03:18 AM
peopleoftheway peopleoftheway is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 645
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryb View Post
Quite a mischaracterization since Covenantal Theology does not promote the practice of animal sacrifice.

One must be careful to read distinctions in the Scripture where they are warranted. There is a difference between the shadows of the OT that pointed to Christ (e.g. animal sacrifices), which were ceremonial laws...and the moral laws as summed up in the 10 commandments, which are still in effect in the new administration of the covenant of grace.
The whole point is that anyone who is trusting in the Blood of Christ rather than bringing an animal sacrifice to cover sin is a dispensationalist. In the same way that anyone who observes the first day of the week rather than the seventh.
Are you saying that ALL of the 10 commandments given to Moses are still in effect?
  #30  
Old 07-15-2009, 05:35 AM
larryb's Avatar
larryb larryb is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 19
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by peopleoftheway View Post
The whole point is that anyone who is trusting in the Blood of Christ rather than bringing an animal sacrifice to cover sin is a dispensationalist. In the same way that anyone who observes the first day of the week rather than the seventh.
Are you saying that ALL of the 10 commandments given to Moses are still in effect?
Yes, all of the 10 commandments are still in effect. They are a summary of God's everlasting moral law, and have nothing to do with the ceremonial law which was based on the blood of animals as they pointed to Christ. Now that Christ has come there's no more need for the shadows that pointed to Him, but the moral law does not change as it is rooted in the very character of God.
 

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

The King James Bible Page SwordSearcher Bible Software

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:52 AM.

Powered by vBulletin®, Copyright vBulletin Solutions Inc.

Website © AV1611.Com.
Posts represent only the opinions of users of this forum and do not necessarily represent the opinions of the webmaster.

Software for Believing Bible Study

 
Contact Us AV1611.Com