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  #91  
Old 07-11-2009, 05:14 PM
Bro. Parrish
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Pastor Schwenke,
Just wanted you to know I sent you a message to the e-mail address on your public profile:
pastorschwenke@yahoo.com
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  #92  
Old 07-15-2009, 09:28 PM
custer custer is offline
 
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Default Moved!

Please note:

Some items/responses of a personal nature that arose on this thread have been moved to "General Chit-Chat."

Pam
www.custerfamilyfarm.com
  #93  
Old 07-21-2009, 12:18 PM
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greenbear greenbear is offline
 
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Amanda from Love and Race Thread
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Would you say that according to the Word that marriage is also a bondage? You are bound to your mate?

1 Corinthians 7:15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.
What? This thread has been about whether marriage is being "yoked" or being "joined". In other words, what is the nature of the bond, not whether or not a bond exists! A man and a woman are joined (bound together) in marriage by taking a vow, making a covenant with each other under the authority of God and recognition by human government.

This thread was never about whether it is or is not God's will that believers marry unbelievers. Everybody has agreed it is not. This thread is about the nature of marriage as revealed in the scriptures. You and I have agreed on the Acceptable/Unacceptable Reasons for Divorce thread that God does make provision for us even in divorce and remarriage. He also makes provision for a believer marrying an unbeliever by sanctifying the unbelieving spouse. My focus is that the christian life is not about following laws and rules but it is about being in Christ so that we will not perform the works of the flesh.

If you look up every instance of the word "bondage" it refers to Israel being delivered into or delivered out of slavery by God... until Romans where Paul uses the word in reference to the law of sin, and then in other epistles the word is used in reference to the Law and the elements of the world.

The word bondage in 1 Co 7:15 carries the meaning of being tied to a vow. Paul refers to a brother or sister being released from the bonds of a vow, a covenant. He is not referring to being freed from servitude or slavery to something. Marriage is not slavery or servitude or even "working together" with another person. It is a covenant in which a man and a woman are "joined" together as one flesh. They are not "yoked" together to plough the fields. The sense of "yoking" is applied to workers in the gospel. Can married couples be fellow workers in spreading the gospel of Christ? Of course! But that is not what marriage is.

I've included a dictionary's definition of the words "bondage" and "bond", and all of the instances that "bond" is used in the scriptures to gain understanding of the meaning of what a bond is in scripture.

Quote:
Webster's 1828 Dictionary [A-J]
bondage
BOND'AGE, n. Slavery or involuntary servitude; captivity; imprisonment; restraint of a person's liberty by compulsion. In ancient English law, villenage.

1. Obligation; tie of duty.

He must resolve not to be brought under the bondage of observing oaths.

2. In scripture, spiritual subjection to sin and corrupt passions, or to the yoke of the ceremonial law; servile fear. Heb.2. Gal.2. Rom.8.
Quote:
Webster's 1828 Dictionary [A-J]
bond
BOND, n.

1. Anything that binds, as a cord, a chain, a rope; a band.

2. Ligament; that which holds things together.

3. Union; connection; a binding.

Let walls be so constructed as to make a good bond.

4. In the plural, chains; imprisonment; captivity.

He hath done nothing worthy of death or of bonds. Acts.

5. Cause of union; cement which unites; link of connection; as the bonds of affection.

Charity is the bond of perfectness. Col.3

6. An obligation imposing a moral duty, as by a vow, or promise, by law or other means.

7. In law, an obligation or deed by which a person binds himself, his heirs, executors, and administrators, to pay a certain sum, on or before a future day appointed. This is a single bond. But usually a condition is added, that ;if the obligor shall do a certain act, or pay a certain sum of money, on or before a time specified, the obligation shall be void; otherwise it shall remain in full force. If the condition is not performed, the bond becomes forfeited, and the obligor and his heirs are liable to the payment of the whole sum.

BOND, a. for bound. In a state of servitude, or slavery; captive.

Whether we be jews or Gentiles; whether we be bond or free. 1 Cor.12.

BOND, v.t. To give bond for; as for duties or customs at a custom house; to secure payment of, by giving a bond.

On their reshipment and exportation, official clearances were given, in which no mention was made that the cargo consisted of bonded or debentured goods.

In the U.States, it is applied to the goods on which the customs arise, and to the duties secured by bond.

Instances of the word "bond" in scripture:

Quote:
Numbers 30:2 If a man vow a vow unto the LORD, or swear an oath to bind his soul with a bond; he shall not break his word, he shall do according to all that proceedeth out of his mouth.

Numbers 30:3 If a woman also vow a vow unto the LORD, and bind herself by a bond, being in her father's house in her youth;

Numbers 30:4 And her father hear her vow, and her bond wherewith she hath bound her soul, and her father shall hold his peace at her: then all her vows shall stand, and every bond wherewith she hath bound her soul shall stand.

Numbers 30:10 And if she vowed in her husband's house, or bound her soul by a bond with an oath;

Numbers 30:11 And her husband heard it, and held his peace at her, and disallowed her not: then all her vows shall stand, and every bond wherewith she bound her soul shall stand.

Numbers 30:12 But if her husband hath utterly made them void on the day he heard them; then whatsoever proceeded out of her lips concerning her vows, or concerning the bond of her soul, shall not stand: her husband hath made them void; and the LORD shall forgive her.

Job 12:18 He looseth the bond of kings, and girdeth their loins with a girdle.

Ezekiel 20:37 And I will cause you to pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant:

Luke 13:16 And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day?

Acts 8:23 For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 4:3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

Ephesians 6:8 Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free.

Colossians 3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

Colossians 3:14 And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.

Revelation 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

Revelation 19:18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

I mentioned before my belief in the importance of seeing the "big picture". This is an example. The argument about whether a man and a woman are "joined" or "yoked" together is important. Is marriage a picture of the works of the law or is it a picture of the body of Christ being justified by grace through faith? George started this thread by posting a complete list of scriptures that contain the words "yoke" and "yoked". These words are never used by God to describe the marriage relationship.

From the beginning marriage has been a similitude of The Mystery.


Ephesians 5:30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
Ephesians 5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
Ephesians 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Colossians 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:


Marriage is not a similitude of justification by the works of the Law, but rather of justification by the faith of Jesus Christ.

Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

I hope I have been clear about my understanding. I believe my position has been defended from scripture. If yours is different then I think you are incorrect but we are all free to make up our own minds.
  #94  
Old 07-21-2009, 12:30 PM
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Amanda S. Amanda S. is offline
 
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Greenbear,

I do not have the chance to answer you back at the moment as I have piano lessons, but I hope to get at it tonight.

But I wanted to ask that if you can use the dictionary to help make your point, am I allowed to do the same and get taken seriously on the Shepherd/Pastor thread? It appears that the dictionary over and over again is rejected by a number of people on here, so please play fair and not use it in this discussion.

  #95  
Old 07-21-2009, 01:00 PM
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greenbear greenbear is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amanda S. View Post
Greenbear,

I do not have the chance to answer you back at the moment as I have piano lessons, but I hope to get at it tonight.

But I wanted to ask that if you can use the dictionary to help make your point, am I allowed to do the same and get taken seriously on the Shepherd/Pastor thread? It appears that the dictionary over and over again is rejected by a number of people on here, so please play fair and not use it in this discussion.

Did you not notice that I gave a summary of the instances that the word "bondage" is used in scripture and even included all of the scriptures that use the word "bond" in my post?


Who ever said a dictionary can not be of some help? No one here has.

I believe most of us stated that our understanding of a word's meaning used in scripture must be interpreted from scripture. Have I not done that? I think we are all capable of using our Bible software to look at all of the instances of "bondage" if we want to. No one wants to see them all on this post.
  #96  
Old 07-21-2009, 01:18 PM
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Amanda S. Amanda S. is offline
 
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Quote:
Biblical marriage is not about being yoked together. It is about being joined together. It was to His Jewish disciples that Jesus said, Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. I don't believe this applies to us, but even if it did, Jesus is the plowman. We are not "yoked" with Him. Christian marriage is a similitude of Christ and His church. We are joined. We are in Him, and He is in us. There is no yoking, there is a joining of ourselves to Christ.

John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Whether old time Bible commentators, pastors or Bible teachers, or ourselves try to apply the analogy of yoking to the marriage relationship, it is just plain wrong. It destroys the true analogy that Christ and Paul gave of being joined to Christ, being in Christ. We are not yoked to Christ. We are not doing works along side Him. We are doing works in Him.
The definition of yoked is joined. The instances where yoke is used is for the purpose of joining 2 animals together for the purpose of one common goal or yoking (joining) with an unbeliever.

I've really go to go now
  #97  
Old 07-21-2009, 01:51 PM
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greenbear greenbear is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amanda S. View Post
The definition of yoked is joined. The instances where yoke is used is for the purpose of joining 2 animals together for the purpose of one common goal or yoking (joining) with an unbeliever.

I've really go to go now
Yeah, I'm done with this, too.
 

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