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Old 06-03-2009, 12:12 PM
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Paul has no problem with it for the church so neither do I. Everything else is just personal preference which thankfully we are still allowed to exercise. Outside of the church they have bigger problems than whether to marry outside of their 'nationality". It's none of my business who marries who.
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  #12  
Old 06-03-2009, 12:52 PM
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Well, being an Asian (Oriental, to be specific), I certainly can't belong to KKK! I might get "persecuted"!!!

Anyhow, I know a missionary couple (the husband is white and the wife is Filipino) who's in Philippine, serving the Lord greatly and bearing much fruit. And my church has been supporting the family for about 10 years. I personally don't have anything against any Christian couple who married outside of their nation as I, like Cody1611, believe that the most important thing in marriage is FAITH.

And I know Ruth is a woman with great faith, and I do believe that it was God's will to have Boaz to marry Ruth. (And have Jesus Christ born from his seed.) However, it doesn't seem that the sons of Naomi married women of Moab (Orpah and Ruth) according to God's will. Also, it was Ruth's decision to cleave unto Noami and followed her to the land of Judah. "..thy people shall be my people, and thy God my God" (Ruth 16:16) So once one is completely dedicated to God and leave everything behind, then sure, perhaps God will use him/her to do God's work.

I also don't believe those who married outside of their race have to get out of church or anything, but we do have to look carefully if it is really God's will to have them marry especially times like today. Because today, in a lot of cases, "race mixing" became "norm" and something to be proud of. For instance, here in Toronto (Canada), "Torontonians" are supposed to be "proud" of Toronto's "diversity" and "multiculturalism".

So... I wouldn't necessarily call interracial marriage "Biblical".
"For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints." (1 Corinthians 14:33)
  #13  
Old 06-03-2009, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by kns215 View Post
So... I wouldn't necessarily call interracial marriage "Biblical".
That's the wrong question. The question is, is it unbiblical? Since our apostle is Paul, and Paul specifically said there is no difference between the Jew and the Gentile for us now, what basis is there to discourage people from marring people with different levels of melanin in their skin? A bunch of lines of reasoning directly contradicted by Scripture (Boaz, Moses, etc)?

It is an untenable position to hold! There were no "white Americans" in Acts 17:26 -- what does it have to do with who someone marries? -- since there was no "american nation" to speak of, where do we go to marry? What do you suggest someone who is the son of "mixed races" go for a spouse?

This is all confusion -- races are not nations. Applying the rules of separation for the nation of Israel under the law to someone today based on what color their skin is is confusion in the highest order.
  #14  
Old 06-03-2009, 01:10 PM
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That's the wrong question. The question is, is it unbiblical? Since our apostle is Paul, and Paul specifically said there is no difference between the Jew and the Gentile for us now, what basis is there to discourage people from marring people with different levels of melanin in their skin? A bunch of lines of reasoning directly contradicted by Scripture (Boaz, Moses, etc)?

It is an untenable position to hold! There were no "white Americans" in Acts 17:26 -- what does it have to do with who someone marries? -- since there was no "american nation" to speak of, where do we go to marry? What do you suggest someone who is the son of "mixed races" go for a spouse?

This is all confusion -- races are not nations. Applying the rules of separation for the nation of Israel under the law to someone today based on what color their skin is is confusion in the highest order.
Brother Brandon,

When you say "races are not nations" are you saying that you see different "races" as opposed to different "nations" within humanity? Or are you saying that "nations are not races", meaning the concept of different races within humanity is wrong?

Sister Jennifer
  #15  
Old 06-03-2009, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diligent View Post
That's the wrong question. The question is, is it unbiblical? Since our apostle is Paul, and Paul specifically said there is no difference between the Jew and the Gentile for us now, what basis is there to discourage people from marring people with different levels of melanin in their skin? A bunch of lines of reasoning directly contradicted by Scripture (Boaz, Moses, etc)?

It is an untenable position to hold! There were no "white Americans" in Acts 17:26 -- what does it have to do with who someone marries? -- since there was no "american nation" to speak of, where do we go to marry? What do you suggest someone who is the son of "mixed races" go for a spouse?

This is all confusion -- races are not nations. Applying the rules of separation for the nation of Israel under the law to someone today based on what color their skin is is confusion in the highest order.
Brother Brandon, my father's family were Highland Scot descended from Charles and Mary Stuart, and on into the Bourbon kings of France, who were Gauls. The Gauls were ultimately traced as having their foundation in the Scythians. I'm a blood-mad pillaging barbarian on Dad's side.

My mother's family were Irish, my maternal grandfather was 1/4 Cherokee Indian, my maternal grandmother was 1/4 Shawnee Indian. Geneologically therefore, I am a mess.

Question(I hope you see the sarcasm): Who am I qualified to marry, and what are the "bounds" of my habitation?

1Sa 16:7 But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.
Joh 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
2Co 10:7 Do ye look on things after the outward appearance? If any man trust to himself that he is Christís, let him of himself think this again, that, as he is Christís, even so are we Christís.

Brother, I thank we 'ur jist 'bout ready tah refight the Civil War agin h'yar in the forum.

Grace and peace

Boneswall Jackson
  #16  
Old 06-03-2009, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by greenbear View Post
Brother Brandon,

When you say "races are not nations" are you saying that you see different "races" as opposed to different "nations" within humanity? Or are you saying that "nations are not races", meaning the concept of different races within humanity is wrong?

Sister Jennifer
"Race" is an evolutionary/Darwinian concept that I reject. In order to communicate with other people I will still use the term "race" as it is commonly used, but when it comes down to practical matters, I throw it out along with psychobabble and other false sciences.

The reason I do this is because the Bible speaks of nations, not races. And even within the Jewish people there is a gamut of skin colors from light to dark.

The problem here, expressed by some posters on this forum and taught by people like Ruckman, is that they are confusing the false-science concept of "race" with nations. They point to verses that say nothing of the color of someone's skin, and use that as the proof for saying someone with darker skin than me shouldn't be my spouse -- even though we are both Americans and of the same nation! But they do not try to argue that a Britain white shouldn't marry an American white, even though the verses they point to are all about boundaries and nations, not color of skin.

My poistion is simply that Paul never said we have to concern ourselves with such matters. The only people in the Bible who did were Israelites under the Law. And to take it one step further, Paul said we are all one in Christ.

The idea that we should ignore Galations 3:8 when it comes to qualifying a spouse is abhorrent to me.

Having said all of that, I will also say that there are real "issues" with culture that need to be seriously considered when people marry. Cultural differences can certainly be a big strain on a marriage, but it is foolish to assume that all Blacks, or all Whites, or all Filipinos are in monocultures. But there is nothing forbidding an American male marrying a woman from a different culture -- in fact, given American culture I would highly recommend it!
  #17  
Old 06-03-2009, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by kns215 View Post

Well, being an Asian (Oriental, to be specific), I certainly can't belong to KKK! I might get "persecuted"!!!

Anyhow, I know a missionary couple (the husband is white and the wife is Filipino) who's in Philippine, serving the Lord greatly and bearing much fruit. And my church has been supporting the family for about 10 years. I personally don't have anything against any Christian couple who married outside of their nation as I, like Cody1611, believe that the most important thing in marriage is FAITH.

And I know Ruth is a woman with great faith, and I do believe that it was God's will to have Boaz to marry Ruth. (And have Jesus Christ born from his seed.) However, it doesn't seem that the sons of Naomi married women of Moab (Orpah and Ruth) according to God's will. Also, it was Ruth's decision to cleave unto Noami and followed her to the land of Judah. "..thy people shall be my people, and thy God my God" (Ruth 16:16) So once one is completely dedicated to God and leave everything behind, then sure, perhaps God will use him/her to do God's work.

I also don't believe those who married outside of their race have to get out of church or anything, but we do have to look carefully if it is really God's will to have them marry especially times like today. Because today, in a lot of cases, "race mixing" became "norm" and something to be proud of. For instance, here in Toronto (Canada), "Torontonians" are supposed to be "proud" of Toronto's "diversity" and "multiculturalism".

So... I wouldn't necessarily call interracial marriage "Biblical".
"For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints." (1 Corinthians 14:33)
Sister, you can't be "not unnecessarily" pregnant, you either are or you aren't. Marriage freely between races is either "Biblical" or it isn't. Well, since I can't find one single word of Scripture indicating it's "wrong", I'll marry who I want to, associate with who I want to and most important, preach to who I want to.

I don't understand your out-of-context use of a Scripture passage from I Corinthians that deals with the misuse of the Jewish signs of an apostle and having nothing to do with "marriage" and associations between different "races". The Scriptures give you the three "races": Jew, Gentile, church of God. The Scriptures give marriage or sexual relations with blood family as being "confusion", I can't find any at all that marriage "outside yo race" is confusion. I can tell you this: In the flesh and after the flesh, Negroes, Orientals, and Caucasians are all equally as racist one towards another.

Song Of Sol. 1:5 I am black, but comely, O ye daughters of Jerusalem, as the tents of Kedar, as the curtains of Solomon.
Song Of Sol. 1:6 Look not upon me, because I am black, because the sun hath looked upon me: my motherís children were angry with me; they made me the keeper of the vineyards; but mine own vineyard have I not kept.

Ah sho 'nuff don' know how these varses comed out lahk they diyad, they must be a MISTRANSLATION!

Grace and peace sister

Boneswall Jackson
  #18  
Old 06-03-2009, 02:00 PM
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According to my recently deceased father, he told me that I am 3/4 German, 1/8 Danish and 1/8 English. This is because, according to my Dad: my mother is fully German, and my father is half German, 1/4 Danish and 1/4 English. I'm not sure where he got those statistics from - but that is what I was told.

So, if one goes by Old Testament boundaries, nationally - I am almost fully German. Perhaps some who are considering national boundaries think that I ought to move to Germany and find a Christian to marry there? But with the Danish and English in the mix - I'm no longer of a pure nationality. Hmmm quite a colundrum!

I agree with the posting about following Paul's teachings - since he received them from the resurrected Lord and he was taught that the Church was now to be in GRACE and no longer in LAW. If we go by Old Testament LAW, as doctrine, that is wrong. Paul's doctrine is basically that we don't look at such things anymore. The most important is that the 2 wishing to marry are FIRST grounded in Paul's Church-age doctrine.

I do agree that it's not a good idea for young people to marry against their family's wishes for them - especially if they are also believers. And, indeed, there are cultural differences to consider in such a marriage. However, if they are grounded as believers FIRST - the husband is the leader and the wife knows that her husband is under the LORD, and she has nothing to fear from his leadership. Besides, Paul commanded the husband to LOVE his wife - please notice that NOWHERE has Paul commanded the wife to LOVE her husband. I find that very interesting. I think that softens his hardness, and will cause him to act towards his wife in LOVE, considering her first.

Anyway, there was another thread about that - so I'm not going to get mixed up in that, as I know there are sticky issues that people believe very strongly about. But I agree with the people that posted that we, as BELIEVERS, now follow the doctrine of GRACE that Paul taught.

Jassy
  #19  
Old 06-03-2009, 02:12 PM
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So, now I am confused.
Is it just personal "preference"? Or is it settled with a final answer that it is RIGHT to marry outside your nation.

And since Caucasians are already mixed (i.e. Irish with German, etc), and so are Asians and Negroes (within their "colour of skin"), there shouldn't be any line drawn between those three "races" either?

But what about all those "differences" between each cultures?

So basically, no matter what nation, race, or culture you are from, just follow the Bible.. and there you go, no problem will occur whatsoever?

I could be very "misinformed" in this issue, and I am definitely open for the final answer based on the Scripture.


Added:
Oh, and would this issue be a doctrinal issue?

Another addition:
So, say if parents don't want their kids to marry anyone outside of their nation, race, or culture, are they, therefore, being unreasonable and unbiblical? (Say the reason is because communication issues, not faith issue)

Thank you for taking time to respond!

Last edited by kns215; 06-03-2009 at 02:23 PM. Reason: added few lines at the end!
  #20  
Old 06-03-2009, 02:17 PM
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There's a couple of specific verses in the Bible, that deal with who not to marry.
Never marry a saved person to an unsaved person, but, if one gets saved after the marriage, then we're supposed to stay married to the same person, even if they remain lost.
(look for unequally yoked)
Different ethnicities, different customs,none have any bearing on getting married.
The only thing is for a believer to marry another believer. That's it, as far as I know.
Also, in the Old Testament, God was angered when the Hebrews married OUTSIDE of their religion.
Christians marry Christians, no matter how cute the other one looks and acts, to marry on purpose, a lost person, a non_Christian, is sin.
 

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