[cb6445]

I just had a couple of quick questions and wanted to see if I could get some help. James 2:24 says we are justified by works, and not faith only. But Rom 3:28 says man is justified w/out the deeds of the law. I believe James 2:24 is saying we are justified by faith, but true faith should also have works. Rom 3:28 is referring the law of Moses when it refers to the "deeds of the law". Am I correct?

[Luke]

Well, consider Abraham. When was he saved? Was he saved when he believed God and it was counted to him for righteousness in Genesis 15:6

Gen 15:6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

Or was he saved seven chapters later when he offered his son Isaac on the alter (Genesis 22).

Consider James 2 - it is talking about men

Jas 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jas 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

If I go see a poor beggar on the street and say "Jesus will save you" and yet he is there starving and freezing, my faith in Christ won't save him. But my works will. If I give him food, money etc.

[Diligent]

As James says, faith without works is dead.

Thankfully, in this age, we are given Christ's faith, so we do not have to stand on our works (the works of Christ's faith are imputed to us!):

Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

There is a proper dispensational application for the book of James, but the easiest way to understand the "works and faith" question is to recognize that we are given Christ's faith. We don't just have faith in Christ; as Romans 3:22 says, when we believe, we actually get Christ's faith. And with that comes Christ's works!

[cb6445]

Ok, that makes sense.

[Forrest]

Originally Posted by Diligent

As James says, faith without works is dead.

Thankfully, in this age, we are given Christ's faith, so we do not have to stand on our works (the works of Christ's faith are imputed to us!):

Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

There is a proper dispensational application for the book of James, but the easiest way to understand the "works and faith" question is to recognize that we are given Christ's faith. We don't just have faith in Christ; as Romans 3:22 says, when we believe, we actually get Christ's faith. And with that comes Christ's works!

Of course I agree with you Brother Brandon. But let me ask you a question. Since we have the faith of Christ and with it comes Christ's works...why don't we always do the works of Christ?

[George]

Originally Posted by Forrest

Of course I agree with you Brother Brandon. But let me ask you a question. Since we have the faith of Christ and with it comes Christ's works...why don't we always do the works of Christ?

Aloha brother Forrest,

To answer your question:

Romans 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

This is every Christian's dilemma - If the Apostle Paul struggled with his flesh all of his life, can we expect to avoid that same struggle?

[cb6445]

Thank you "George" for the info. Was a great deal of help. I also agree with you on your response to the other man's question. "I delight in the law of GOD after the inward man"......but "O wretched man that I am, who shall deliver me from this body of death. I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. He's so GOOD!!!

[Forrest]

Originally Posted by George

Aloha brother Forrest,

To answer your question:

Romans 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

This is every Christian's dilemma - If the Apostle Paul struggled with his flesh all of his life, can we expect to avoid that same struggle?

That's a good answer. I wondered if this is also applicable.

1 Corinthians 15:53-58 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

We do not always do the works of Christ because we are still mortal and corruptible beings. Not just our body of flesh, but our minds, emotions, and wills. Is this your understanding of 1 Corinthians 15:53-58?

[MC1171611]

Amen, God is so good to put up with us even though we have this stinking, rotten, disgusting flesh to put up with! I know I wouldn't have patience with a perfect man, let alone myself; I just thank God for His mercy and grace that He supplies every day. Without Him, I would be NOTHING!

[George]

Originally Posted by Forrest

That's a good answer. I wondered if this is also applicable.

1 Corinthians 15:53-58 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

We do not always do the works of Christ because we are still mortal and corruptible beings. Not just our body of flesh, but our minds, emotions, and wills. Is this your understanding of 1 Corinthians 15:53-58?

Aloha brother Forrest,

I'm in agreement with you and believe it goes even further.

In regards to our "substance" {Body, Soul, and Spirit}

Our flesh is "weak". [Matthew 26:41; Mark 14:38]
Our soul is engaged in continual "warfare" from "fleshly lusts". [1Peter 2:11]
Our spirit can get "filthy". [2Corinthians 7:1]

In regards to our "faculties" {Heart, Mind, and Conscience}

Our heart is deceitful (from birth) and can become full of evil, madness, and wickedness,. [Jeremiah 17:9; Ecclesiastes 9:3; Acts 8:22]
Our mind can become "not right", blinded, corrupt, and defiled. [Mark 5:15; Luke 8:35; 2Corinthians 3:14, 4:4; 2Corinthians 11:3; 1Timothy 6:5; 2Timothy 3:8; Titus 1:15]
Our conscience can become weak, seared, defiled, full of "dead works", and even evil. [1Corinthians 8:7, 8:12; 1Timothy 4:2; Titus 1:15; Hebrews 9:14; Hebrews 10:22]


There is only one "fix" for the mess that we (Christians) are in.

It begins with the written word i.e. The Scriptures {The Bible = Gods words}:

Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Luke 4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

Psalms 119:11 Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.

Psalms 119:16 I will delight myself in thy statutes: I will not forget thy word.

Psalms 119:42 So shall I have wherewith to answer him that reproacheth me: for I trust in thy word.

Psalms 119:67 Before I was afflicted I went astray: but now have I kept thy word.

Psalms 119:101 I have refrained my feet from every evil way, that I might keep thy word.

Psalms 119:105 NUN. Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

Psalms 119:160 Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever.

Psalms 33:4 For the word of the LORD is right; and all his works are done in truth.


It ends with THE WORD Incarnate {The Lord Jesus Christ}:

1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

1 Peter 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

1 Corinthians 10:16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?

Ephesians 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

Hebrews 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

The trouble with us (Christians) is we do not have a "love of the truth" [2Thessalonians 2:10] and because we do not love the Lord, as we should, we fail to take advantage of the many things (gifts and abilities), that are freely given to us, in order for us to overcome the world, the flesh. and the devil.

As I have said before (In regards to our "walk" in the Lord in this world) - It all begins with the heart:

Hebrews 13:9 Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.

Proverbs 4:23 Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life.