Aloha Brother George,

My wife and I are come to Hawaii on the 6th of November to the 27th for our 35th anniversary.

Originally Posted by George

Re: Did Jesus Christ Come To Start A church, etc.?





The answer to your first question:
#1. Did Jesus come to start a church? YES – but only AFTER His rejection by His people (the Jews – the Nation of Israel). God in His foreknowledge, knowing in advance that the Jews would ultimately reject their King and Saviour, made provision to extend His offer to the Gentiles, temporarily setting aside His people {the Jews} until He can gather together a Gentile “BRIDE” for His son, after which He will return and claim His Kingdom and take His rightful place as King – not only of the Jews, but of the whole world.
[John 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: ]

The answer to your second question:
#2. Or did Jesus come to start “a new church”? NO – Jesus Christ has only ONE CHURCH (The Body of Christ – The Bride). He did not establish His church until AFTER His rejection by the Nation of Israel; and AFTER His death, burial, and resurrection. There was no New Testament Church on earth until AFTER the death of the Testator.
[Hebrews 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.]

{This is why we must be extremely careful in “rightly dividing the word of God” especially when it comes to the Gospels, since most of the words spoken in them are directed at Jews (the Nation of Israel) and not the church.}

Remember WHO? Like the “Wise Old Owl” we should be asking:
WHO – Said that?
WHO– Was he speaking to?
WHO– Does this apply to?
WHO– Should follow and obey?
WHO– Is this written to?

The answer to your third question:
#3. When did the church first start? Better, brighter, and more capable men than I have debated this issue for centuries. Based on my limited knowledge of Scripture, I believe the church of God began at Pentecost. It began with only pork abstaining, Sabbath observing, circumcised Jews; and expanded out to half-Jews (the Samaritans); and finally spread out to the Gentiles (all the peoples of the world).

The church was revealed to Peter and the original Apostles, but it was not fully understood until God revealed the mystery of the church to the Apostle Paul.

This is a very long “Thread” (even for me ), and I haven’t included even half of what I could have - if I had the time and space. I hope this may be of some “help” to you and not too confusing.

Ok questions one at a time.
Remember WHO? Like the “Wise Old Owl” we should be asking:
WHO – Said that?
WHO– Was he speaking to?
WHO– Does this apply to?
WHO– Should follow and obey?
WHO– Is this written to?

Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. Matthew 18:15

Jesus said this.
The Jews, ???? The House of Israel ??? But not the church because it did not exisit
Does it apply to ? the Jews, no because they are not or have a church
Should follow ? Can't fixure it out
Is it written ? the future

What church is Jesus talking about, the one he going to build?

So these verses have no immediate application because the church does not exisit and must be use later.

I am having a hard time fitting this in to the pattern of rightly divided word the WHO system.
I am new at this type of formatting.
Help

[peopleoftheway]

Acts 7:37-38
37 This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.
38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

Originally Posted by peopleoftheway

Acts 7:37-38
37 This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.
38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

That is a good one, most people don't what to address that

[peopleoftheway]

Yes its a great verse, however I dont think it applies to the "Church" As In the Body of Christ but the "Church" as In the Elders of that time being spiritual leaders and teaching the family or gathering. This extended outside the family as fellowship of those that believed in God. These are my thoughts though and "when" the Church started is not a fundamental doctrine.

Originally Posted by peopleoftheway

Yes its a great verse, however I dont think it applies to the "Church" As In the Body of Christ but the "Church" as In the Elders of that time being spiritual leaders and teaching the family or gathering. This extended outside the family as fellowship of those that believed in God. These are my thoughts though and "when" the Church started is not a fundamental doctrine.

House of God

This phase is uses in 87 verses.

First used in;
And he was afraid, and said, How dreadful is this place! this is none other but the house of God, and this is the gate of heaven. Genesis 28:17

And used last in;
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 1 Peter 4:17

But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth. 1 Timothy 3:15

Following the verse list on the house of God, and arriving to this verse would make me wonder if the church has always exist and in light of the methodology of how many rightly dividing the word of God, it would have implications on many of the accepted doctrine.

So has the church always existed or is it essentially new and in the dispensationalist church age view does this not have profound implication?

[George]

Aloha brother Scott,

I will answer your questions shortly. Hopefully my answers will be shorter than the last time. However, let me assure you that "rightly dividing" is not as difficult as you may think.

[chette777]

Scott,

Church also means assembly. there was an asembly in the wilderness.

to often we think of church in it's degraded form as to always mean beleivers or a building where beleivers met meet. the context gives the meaning 99% of the time.

the word church is a broad meaning word and so we must learn to rightly divide the scripture and then apply the proper meaning of the word church to it.

A good unabridged Campbridge or Webster dictionary is a really good investment for any Bible Student.

[Renee]

Scott,
You said you were coming to Hawaii. Please elaborate. We live on the Island of Kauai. If you are coming here we would love to meet you and your wife. Please advise. You may email George.

Aloha,
Irene

Originally Posted by Renee

Scott,
You said you were coming to Hawaii. Please elaborate. We live on the Island of Kauai. If you are coming here we would love to meet you and your wife. Please advise. You may email George.

Aloha,
Irene

Hi Irene, we would love to meet you both also, I will email George.